Story Photos
 Dan Barker, co-president of the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation, Inc., talks Monday about the sign his organization helped place near a Christian nativity scene at the Capitol in Olympia. Ted S. Warren / AP
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Atheist sign joins nativity scene, tree at Capitol
Monday, December 1, 2008 7:28 PM PST
By Curt Woodward
The Associated Press
Printable version
E-mail this articleOLYMPIA — An atheist group has unveiled an anti-religion placard in the state Capitol, joining a Christian Nativity scene and “holiday tree” on display during December.
The atheists’ sign was installed Monday by Washington members of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a national group based in Madison, Wis.
With a nod to the winter solstice — the year’s shortest day, occurring in late December — the placard reads, in part, “There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.”
The foundation’s co-president, Dan Barker, said it was important for atheists to offer their viewpoint alongside the overtly religious Nativity scene and Christmas-style holiday tree.
“Our members want equal time,” Barker said. “Not to muscle, not to coerce, but just to have a place at the table.”
The three displays, all privately sponsored, were granted permits from state groundskeepers to be placed in the Capitol’s grand marble hallways.
The 25-foot noble spruce, officially called the “Capitol Holiday Kids Tree,” is sponsored by the Association of Washington Business and tied to a charity drive for needy families. It’s been a Capitol fixture for nearly 20 years.
Although nominally secular, the tree is clearly recognizable as a sign of Christmas: It’s strung with lights, topped by a large golden star and usually surrounded by faux wrapped presents.
In 2006, a Jewish group sponsored a Capitol menorah, the candelabrum that marks Hanukkah. That prompted local real estate agent Ron Wesselius to propose a Capitol nativity scene depicting the birth of Christ.
The request was turned down, with state lawyers saying they didn’t have enough time to wade through issues of government religious endorsement. Wesselius sued; his Nativity scene was installed in 2007 and again this year. No menorah is on display in 2008.
On Monday, the Nativity scene and atheist sign were installed alongside each other in a hallway between the state Senate and House chambers, separated by a large bust of the state’s namesake, George Washington.
Asked whether he was bothered by the atheist display next to his Nativity scene, Wesselius said, “I think the Nativity scene will speak for itself.”
But he added, “I appreciate freedom of speech and freedom of access. That’s why they’re in there, and hey — you know, that’s great.”
For now, the atheist sign is a stand-in. The metal plaque meant for display was delayed by a shipping error, Barker said.
It will be two-sided, with a lengthy message on the main side, and “Keep State/Church Separate” on the back. Barker said that step is necessary because critics have sometimes spun around the group’s other statehouse display, in Wisconsin, in hopes of hiding its message.
Heywood Jablomi wrote on Dec 1, 2008 8:06 PM:
" We need these signs in every city in the nation. I fully support the FFRF. "
justme wrote on Dec 1, 2008 8:11 PM:
" DID YOU KNOW THAT Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies. Come on people keep church and state separate??? Our founding fathers weren't religionists but Christians!! AND...our great nation was founded not on religions but on the gospel of Jesus Christ he is the reason for the season. And as far as hardening hearts what's that about?? I'm never happier than when I'm praising the Lord!! :D "
kelso gringo wrote on Dec 1, 2008 8:29 PM:
" Seems strange that the plaque says, Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds". Its nice that the Atheists get their own display and all, but the quote is mean-spirited. Enslaved mind if you believe in (a) God? "
woah-woah-woah wrote on Dec 1, 2008 8:53 PM:
" I'm all for equal access. The other benefit, speaking as a Christian, is that there's something extremely self-defeating about an anti-religion display that's also A CHRISTMAS DISPLAY for crying out loud. It's like holding up a sign saying "Down With Placards." It's absurd. Their position is that Christmas should never have existed... but since it does, let's be sure and get our fair share of it, shoulder to shoulder with the nativity scene! Don't want our side to get left out of all the mind enslavement! "
gr8 ant wrote on Dec 1, 2008 8:57 PM:
" Next...nobody will be able to walk into the capitol building because there will be to many "religion" based displays... "
Small Town Girl wrote on Dec 1, 2008 9:34 PM:
" This is almost a joke. I had to read the article to be sure. Maybe atheists can create their own holiday, get it recognized and then hang their silly decorations then. Leave Christmas alone. I hope these people don't purchase gifts or decorations for a holiday that they so overtly want to protest. I don't understand their radical stand against Christianity. "
unnown01 wrote on Dec 1, 2008 11:10 PM:
" i atest that we all are athiest just that i believe in one fewer gods then you. for the reason that you dismiss all other gods you can now see why i dismiss yours "
UgottaBkidding wrote on Dec 1, 2008 11:28 PM:
" He looks like Dr. Smith from Lost In Space. "Will, you fight the nativity seen while I protect my signs by standing behind them." The things people do with idle time on their hands. Speaking of idle time, mine is up. "
fringe wrote on Dec 2, 2008 12:10 AM:
" I am thankful for all our freedoms. Especially my freedom to believe in God and say so. I am also glad there are so many of us in this country. "
nexus wrote on Dec 2, 2008 12:24 AM:
" So does this mean atheisum is a religion now? Seems like to me. I bet they even have a 501C3 :-) "
Simple Man wrote on Dec 2, 2008 1:32 AM:
" Its nice that atheists get to not believe in a religion. But why do they need a sign on a Christmas tree. If they don't believe fine but don't intrude to our beliefs with their "mean spirited" quotes. Lack of religion and morals are the reason for so many of Americas downfalls. "
Crystal wrote on Dec 2, 2008 2:24 AM:
" Our great country was founded on freedom of religious choice, which also means we Americans can choose no religion. The majority of our founding fathers were deists, but they weren't necessarily Christians. Many non Christians think our government shouldn't be endorsing a religion by having a Christmas tree or Nativity scene in government buildings, so to be fair, all religions (or lack thereof) should be included or none at all. Most atheists can make up some holiday all they want, because Christians have done that quite often in the past. Jesus was born in the spring, not December. Any historian can tell you that. The early Christians just put it in December so they could try to convert pagans celebrating the solstice into the early Christian culture of the time. Also, Easter bunnies come from the Pagans too. Non Christians just get tired of being bombarded with everything Christmas this time of year like it's the only religion in the world. "
skibowlruler wrote on Dec 2, 2008 5:06 AM:
" only problem w atheism is that by its truest definition its impossible... not choosing is still a choice... not beLIEving is still a beLIEf.. having no opinion is still..... "
skibowlruler wrote on Dec 2, 2008 5:10 AM:
" 2 clarify.. (thiesm) ones belief.. (a) is the latin prefix for without... correct me if im wrong here please... i am after all a high school and college drop out "
Kelsonian wrote on Dec 2, 2008 5:13 AM:
" I wouldn't mind Christians if Christians actually followed the words of Christ. Seems like they want to cherry pick the bible these days to find what fits them best. Good on ya atheist dude! "
JD Hogg wrote on Dec 2, 2008 5:48 AM:
" So, if Atheists start their own national holiday, does that mean we can force them to display a picture of Jesus Christ alongside their decorations? This is just another mean-spirited attack on Christianity...a sign of the times I guess....scary. "
Cowlitz1 wrote on Dec 2, 2008 8:48 AM:
" Crystal: Kudos to you for knowing our country's history and the religious background of our founding fathers. It might also be useful to know that those founding fathers were the same ones who tirelessly stumped seperation of church and state. If those of you who are Christians value your freedom to practice your religion, regardless of denomination, I would stop ostracizing those who currently have the freedom to practice their belief system. It seems like you might get tired of hypocracy after a while, I guess not though. As for an "attack on Christianity", perhaps you should look at the history of Christmas. Christ was born in June, the winter solstice was a pagan holiday, celebrated amongst the Germanic tribes by burning evergreen trees (hence xmas trees). Much like Ishtar, I mean Easter, the creation of Christmas was clearly an attack on pagan religion orchestrated by the church, coopting the symbolism, season, and spirit of the original holiday. Now the holiday has once again been coopted by Madison Avenue and really stands for blatant commercialism in the guise of a religious holiday. Gosh, I wonder why anybody would be dissatisfied with that? "
cheney119 wrote on Dec 2, 2008 9:21 AM:
" I'm no athiest, I'm an agnostic. An athiest says there's no god, agnostic's say I just don't know (or care really). The problem with religion is you say you do know. That "I know" crap makes you do and say some pretty silly things. Look at the group in town to bring the word of god's hate. Ask John Brown, he ran around killing people in god's name in the 1850's or ask Osama Bin Ladin killing people in god's name now, both used the same reasoning. "
turkeyhunterman wrote on Dec 2, 2008 10:45 AM:
" Cowlitz could you explain the hypocracy that you refer to. And using your own logic would it be correct to say that we can't celebrate Mothers day because we don't really know when mothers were born or Fathers day for the same reason or how about Veterens day? When was the veteren actually born? And Valentines Day. Was Feb.14th when love first appeared on the planet? Historians and scholars (people smarter than us) don't know the actual date of Christs birth. They only speculate and some say it was in April. If the agnostic in these comments really doesn't care then why post all the negative and hateful comments about the church? "
Cowlitz1 wrote on Dec 2, 2008 11:17 AM:
" The comments that were posted were not hateful and negative, they were gleaned from serious historical study of Christian holidays. The point is not that we are celebrating Christ's birthday on the wrong day, the point is that the holiday was established at the time that it was in order to coopt existing pagan holidays and ensure an easier transition to Christianity for newly conquered Gallic tribes, the same with Easter. If these comments are deemed negative and hateful, I apologize. Just recall that the reason the colonies were orginally settled was to escape religious persecution in Europe. The hypocracy that I refer to is the general Christian belief that through belief in Christ, some moral high ground is attained that allows the judgement of those who do not belief in the strict biblical narrative. This judgement is manifest in this article. Much consternation was caused by the enslaved mind comment and many noted its negativity, but it is no worse than condemning all non-believers to eternal life in hell, passing legislation aimed at curbing a mother's right to choose, dictating that intelligent design be taught in schools despite the complete lack of support it has garnered in the scientific community. I enjoy Christmas, the decorations, the sweaters etc. I don't enjoy people on pedestals telling me what to believe, and I don't think society should either. That is what the plaque symbolizes; a shift toward introspection and thought at the expense of blind obediance and unquestioning, untested faith. "
turkeyhunterman wrote on Dec 2, 2008 12:00 PM:
" Cowlitz, you've done some homework. Good for you.. My point is that Christmas was set aside to celebrate the birth of Christ. Valentines day was set aside to celebrate love. Mothers and Fathers day were set aside as well. But Easter was not set aside. It's very clear when Easter is celebrated every year. As for moral high ground, anyone who thinks themself to be better than others because of their faith is misguided. The right to judge was not given to me or anyone else but the ability to discern right from wrong was. "
Cowlitz1 wrote on Dec 2, 2008 12:21 PM:
" Turkeyhunterman: I think that you are absolutely correct. Far be it from me to stand in the way of Christmas, I think it is a great holiday, just let people celebrate it the way that they choose. As for state property, it should not be the property of one religious element or another, but everyone. "
skeezix wrote on Dec 2, 2008 12:43 PM:
" The article states Our members want equal time, Barker said. Not to muscle, not to coerce, but just to have a place at the table. Jesus has invited all to His table Mr. Barker. Sadly, you just refuse to listen. So, instead, in your faithlessness, you mock others. It leaves little question as to whose heart is most hardened.... "
Simple Man wrote on Dec 2, 2008 12:49 PM:
" we are losing track of whats going on here. Christmas is for Christians. Hence the root word of Christmas (Christ). If atheists want to not believe in god thats just fine but don't go intruding on others beliefs. There shouldn't even be a tree on capital hill in the first place that is true separation of church and state. That quote is disgusting and would never of been allowed if it was against atheists. Darn Politics anyways. "
TheGenius wrote on Dec 2, 2008 3:31 PM:
" Can't we just celebrate Christmas without having to worry about appeasing fringe groups? I'm not religious, but is this fellow really of the thinking that anyone takes anything he says with anything more than a grain of salt? Seriously, Crazy Church People and Crazy Atheist People need to go away. Or, move to Saskatchewan or some other nether region. "
mike oxbigg wrote on Dec 2, 2008 4:25 PM:
" I love the creativity and imagingation of these people. A white sign with black letters? Way to put alot of thought into how you want to present yourself. If this Barker guy wants a seat at the table, I'll be more than happy to give him something to put in his mouth. "
opinionated 1 wrote on Dec 2, 2008 4:59 PM:
" I don't see anything wrong with Mr. Barkers display . If other groups have the right to put up their own displays , why can't his group ? I celebrate Christmas by exchanging gifts and spending time with family . I think personally that the placard just states the truth . Religion doesn't harden some hearts and enslave some minds ? Come on . Am I the only one who's seen terrorist attacks by muslim extremists on the news ? This placard doesn't say religion hardens all hearts and enslaves all minds . I do think that the part that states religion is but myth and superstition is 100% true . God is no more real than the tooth fairy or flying unicorns . "
Cheney119 wrote on Dec 2, 2008 6:17 PM:
" Are you questioning the existance of the tooth fairy? I have proof of his/her existance, I kept the quarter. "
Rosey Glasses wrote on Dec 2, 2008 6:46 PM:
" Before religion it was the Winter Solstice. Then came pagenism, which worshiped the solstice as the birth of the sun god (the lengthening of days, giving them more sunshine). Then came religion and catholic church combining chrisianity and paganism (yes Virginia those statues in the Vadican are in fact pagan statues with new names to reflect the christian religion). All deserve to celebrate what they choose. That was the main reason for our country and its constitution (that is hardly worth the HEMP paper it is written on). Too many sheeple in our world, we need more people that are willing to research and study the true origins of their holidays. sigh. "
cheney119 wrote on Dec 2, 2008 8:23 PM:
" I really think everyone missed the point here on this story. Besides that the fact that the constitution was written on parchment (animal skin) the constitution calls for separation of church and state. To me that means no religious observance at in the state capitol. Christmas is just any other day to me, we routinely proved that in the Navy the ship steams along with complete indifference to the birth of Jesus. "
Old Charlie wrote on Dec 2, 2008 11:46 PM:
" Once again, one can see our governor is no statesman, just a stupid, gutless politician for allowing this nonsense and some of you might want to read the First Amendment, no where does it call for separation of church and state. "
Cowlitz1 wrote on Dec 3, 2008 8:35 AM:
" Seperation is a principle enshrined in the creation of the country. It is not laid out in the 1st amendment, but is a principle the country was founded on. It would have been extremely difficult to have the the 13 denominationally diverse colonies to sign any one document without that understanding. Subsequently, the Supreme Court has established a framework of precedence to support that principle and has interpreted the 1st Am far more broadly in order to encompass seperation of church and state. Good call on the parchment though, the only vegetable based paper involved has been used to patch the document by curators. "
swan wrote on Dec 3, 2008 8:47 AM:
" "woah-woah-woah" is dead on. Kudos to the State for allowing equal access. We don't need silly divisive issues like this creating hysteria. "
InTheStix wrote on Dec 3, 2008 8:51 AM:
" Several posters have made some good points,except that you say Jesus was born in April and one said June.The way I read the story,it said John the baptist was conceived in late June, born in March ,and Jesus was 6 months behind him,that would be September.At any rate,Christmas is not a Christian holiday,it is a pagan holiday;and merely a tradition.Just like Easter,people are just used to following the tradition of Christmas,because that's what everybody does.That same book has a story about how so many will be deceived,must be right,it's been working for a long time. "
Rosey Glasses wrote on Dec 3, 2008 10:25 AM:
" I have to give cheney119 credit. I did my research and found my previous information flawed. Our constitution was in fact printed on animal skin parchment (http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_a8.html) Good job. This site also states that some copies may have been done on hemp paper (also, hemp is not a matter of legalization of marijuana, hemp is a relative that would take a truck load to get a buzz or headache, depending on the person). I can say the legalizing the farmers to grow help would help our economy and still not legalize the marijuana plant itself. Simple tests can determine the thc content and that would end the issue of farmers grown it for pulp, it is by far more renewable and yelds more pulp per acre than trees. "
skeezix wrote on Dec 3, 2008 10:49 AM:
" InTheStix, some minor corrections are in order here. Christmas is a Christian holiday...that is why it is called CHRISTmas. I'll concede it is celebrated at the time of ancient pagan festivals, namely the solstice. However, this was because many of the pagans at the time came to believe in Christ and simply began celebrating this instead, though at the same time. As for the story you refer to at the end of your post, you need to be careful about taking things out of context. It was Jesus who said in Luke that many would come in His name and deceive others and to be alert for those false Christs. In the proper context, the book you speak of warns about deception coming from those who are not believers in the truth. That is a very important point to understand. "
American First wrote on Dec 3, 2008 11:48 AM:
" Pathetic! Very poor taste, it's embarrassing. This would never be allowed on a muslim display during a muslim holiday. I know, that's different. But I expected better behavior, but know better.. "
Im_not_saying wrote on Dec 3, 2008 12:12 PM:
" With the economy failing - I would not be surprised to see more atheists - That way they can save on Christmas presents. "
skeezix wrote on Dec 3, 2008 12:13 PM:
" The intent of separation of church and state was to prevent the government from establishing an "official" religion. This is what those who came to this country in the beginning were fleeing, the persecution of a faith that was not recognized as the "official" religion in England at the time. The courts have interpreted it very broadly bringing it to how it is viewed today. In my understanding, the court states that the state or federal governments shall not endorse a particular religion. That is far different from recognizing that different religions exist. American First raises a good point...why is it there are issues mainly with holidays which carry a Christian moniker? Where is all the fuss with Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu, (insert others here) holidays? And before someone posts that it is because there are too many "Bible Thumpers", pigeon holing all Christians into this sterotype makes about as much sense as calling all Muslims terrorists. "
Old Charlie wrote on Dec 3, 2008 7:57 PM:
" Cowlitz1, I can appreciate your fancy, elitist comment, but to us average folks, what your saying with your comment, we call legislating from the bench, instead of interpreting the Constitution. The philosophy and strategy that you use, was tryed by the gun control crowed and fortunately met its death with the Supreme Court recently. We can only hope that those advocating the slaughter of unborn children using this philosophy and strategy will soon realize the same result, as premeditated murder, is premeditated murder. "
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