County scraps plan to increase speed limits on seven roads
Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:19 PM PST
By Barbara LaBoe
Printable version
E-mail this articleLeadfoots beware, residents on Tuesday convinced the Cowlitz County commissioners to keep lower speed limits on seven “controversial” roads.
Commissioners approved posting or increasing speed limits on a slew of county roads in an update of its speed limit laws. But, after widespread resident opposition, commissioners yielded to concerned residents and backed off raising the speed limits on Alpha Drive, China Garden Road, Coal Creek Road, Fish Pond Road, Kalama River Road, Nevada Drive and Rose Valley Road.
County Public Works officials requested the changes, designed to reflect improvements to some roads and speeds most drivers use on those roads. The county’s ordinance was last updated in 1985, and some speed limits even older. More than 700 road sections were examined during the county’s review.
Commissioners, though, said they’d heard loud and clear from numerous residents that some of the roads just aren’t ready for a higher speeds. Drivers already drive too fast, residents said, and upping the limits will give drivers leash to go even faster.
“You try pulling out onto Nevada Drive now and see if you want the speed limit changed,” Candy Cader told commissioners Tuesday about the proposal to raise the speed limit from 25 to 35 mph. “It’s dangerous.”
Tracee Godfrey said she and her two children have had several close calls walking along Nevada Drive as it is.
“I’m concerned the next time I come in here it will be over a child’s death,” Godfrey told the commissioners.
County Sheriff Bill Mahoney also opposed raising limits on the seven roads, saying it jeopardized residents walking or biking or just getting mail.
Commissioner Axel Swanson also apologized for a comment he made last month about how it’s difficult to keep to the 25 mph speed limit on Nevada Drive. Swanson said he makes a point of following the speed limit even if others behind him don’t like it. And, he said deference in these matters should go to people who live on the roads.
Related article:
County to review speed limits for several rural roads (Oct. 22)
SM wrote on Nov 18, 2008 3:45 PM:
" Set the limits where they should be instead of making anyone who wants to drive a reasonable speed a law-breaker. If people drive faster than that, give them a ticket but don't set the speed limit unreasonably low and punish everyone. "
nickandholly wrote on Nov 18, 2008 4:26 PM:
" I think 25 mph on Alpha and Nevada Drive is way to slow and 35 on Coal Creek and Delameter is to slow. Raise Alpha and Nevada to 35 and Coal Creek and Delameter to at least 40 or 45. Most people drive those speeds anyways so why not just raise them. It's not like it would be dangerous to raise them on those roads. Fish Pond is 25 I believe and that is fast enough for that road as well as 40 on Kalama River Road that road probably has too high of a speed limit. That is one dangerous road. "
critter wrote on Nov 18, 2008 4:42 PM:
" This is a classic example of failure to enforce current laws. Instead of taking the time to cite these people who think 25 is too slow for Nevada drive, they just figured they would change the law so they don't have to. This is a victory for safety. The next step is to push the county to actually have their deputies use their radar guns while they are waiting for a call instead of driving around lonely back-country roads using taxpayers fuel. "
seriously wrote on Nov 18, 2008 4:49 PM:
" It's so easy for you people that don't live on these roads to say increase the speed limit. I live on Nevada Drive and it's just ridiculous how fast people drive up and down that hill. Nevada Drive is a quick and easy shortcut over to west Longview but people forget that it's still a residential area. I'm happy to hear that the limit will remain at 25. "
DUH wrote on Nov 18, 2008 5:01 PM:
" nickandholly, why not legalize marijuana since people are going to smoke it anyway? Why not legalize meth since people are going to do it anyway? Why not leave your doors unlocked since people are going to break in anyway? Why not leave our cash registers open since people are going to rob us anyway? Speed limits in residential areas are 25mph for a reason, and in case you haven't noticed, Alpha Dr. and Nevada Dr. are very much residential areas. In the 36 years that I have lived on Alpha Dr. there have be 13 cars end up in my yard due to speeding. One that came within inches of hitting my house and one that rolled over twice, coming to rest on its top less than 3 feet from my child's swing set. You want to drive your car like you're in a race? Here's a suggestion... Paint a number on it and take it to the dirt track in Saint Helens. On Alpha Dr... Do the speed limit or pay the fine. "
coach wrote on Nov 18, 2008 5:04 PM:
" what about 55 on tennant way? What a joke that is!!! It's just setup for a speed trap. Gotta get our quota some way huh boys!!!!!! "
Rubicon wrote on Nov 18, 2008 5:08 PM:
" If they would have raised them it would have just been a excuse for the wild drivers to drive even faster. "
woah-woah-woah wrote on Nov 18, 2008 6:36 PM:
" Congratulations you NIMBYs, you just cost the rest of us a lot of money and time. We had a chance to set the speed limits just a little closer to what a normal human being actually drives, but you blew it. Hope you're proud of what you just pulled. "
snow shark wrote on Nov 18, 2008 6:40 PM:
" 25 is insane on Nevada Drive, 35 is a whole lot more reasonable. The slow mph zones on Kalama River Road is also crazy. Let's be real.
P.S.
Our county is out of touch, and they cannot even balance a budget.
I say let's fire them and elect a real set of leaders. "
P.S.
Our county is out of touch, and they cannot even balance a budget.
I say let's fire them and elect a real set of leaders. "
grams wrote on Nov 18, 2008 6:56 PM:
" Woah- Woah- Woah WAAHH. Are you saying that all "normal human beings" just naturally drive faster to get there sooner to make more money in the seconds to minutes they save through breaking the law? And how can it cost more money to drive the speed limit? I thought that increased speed uses more fuel thus cost more money? But oh well, what do I know I am just a NIMBY who lives on Fall Creek Rd where some of you "normal people" drive at freeway speeds past my house when ever there is a landslide and you have to take the detour. The point here being that our Cowlitz County Commissioners do listen to us. What the hell is wrong with that. GOOD FOR LISTENING COMMISSIONERS! "
vetmom wrote on Nov 18, 2008 8:08 PM:
" A normal human being would realize that people build their homes next to roads and need to be able to pull out of their driveways without fearing for their lives. Typically we don't have "ramps" to merge onto country roads. I think the speed limits are just fine. Slow down, hang up the phone, save the latte for work and DRIVE sensibly "
Gondolapete wrote on Nov 18, 2008 9:31 PM:
" There is a vast difference between speeding and raising the limits to a reasonable speed..25 on Alpha and Nevada IS too slow..I have lived in that area most of my 42 yrs, and the roads have been widened and made safer in that time..25 is an antiquated speed limit for those two roads, 35 is more than acceptable. If you drive around a little, you will see roads like Olson road are narrower and have a higher limit than 25.. "
chick3k wrote on Nov 18, 2008 10:01 PM:
" The city of Longview did the same thing on 32nd Ave a few years back. The limit was 25, though no one did that, up'd it to 30 which is to fast for the residential area. Though I drive Nevada as a connection I can understand why the residents do not want it raised. I try to watch my speed, but the lower part by Westside Hwy going down that hill it is hard. I can admit I am somewhat of a leadfoot, but not when kids could be out riding their bikes. "
hawkster wrote on Nov 19, 2008 1:51 AM:
" Coach - for your information the only Law Enforcement agency that patrols in cowlitz county that has a "quota" on tickets is the Washington state patrol. So complain about something else and do the speed limit. its not that hard. to everyone else, i feel that some of these roads could definitely use updated speed limits but i have to agree that Nevada Dr should remain 25. it sucks driving that slow on that road and it seems impossible but with the hills and turns on that road it truly is the safest speed limit considering how close the houses are to the road and the visibility for those people getting out of their driveway. "
DW wrote on Nov 19, 2008 6:56 AM:
" For what it's worth.....raising speed limits isn't going to get anyone anywhere anyfaster. I'm glad they didn't raise the limits, and if you think you needs 20 extra seconds to get to the next intersection/stoplight, try getting your rearend out of bed a minute sooner. And I hope they keep writting tickets at all the speed traps in town. "
jazzie wrote on Nov 19, 2008 7:29 AM:
" I live in Silverlake, down Hall rd, speed limit 35!! A long srait strech that has people going the average speed of 50. Almost everyday you can find a dead animal on the rd. Strait strech, why do they have to die for speed. People walk this road everyday and people dont slow down for them. Is it going to take one of these people that cant do the limit to have a child die on one of these roads for you to get it!!! The limit is posted because of how many people live there, not because its a fun road to go fast on. GROW UP AND PROTECT THE PEOPLE. You all will still get to where you are going you just will get there safe!! "
really wrote on Nov 19, 2008 8:20 AM:
" It's so funny that people are complaining about 25/35 whatever speed limits. Are you really in that big of a hurry? I live up coal creek, I drive up coak creek and I drive the speed limit. On top of that, not sure if you have noticed but at the corner near tanglewood, there are always accidents, cars rolled over because people are speeding. Children live on Coal creek, have to walk to their homes from their bus stop and inevitably someone is speeding by and has to swerve into the other lane to miss these kids who have no shoulder to walk on. How much time do you save increasing the speed limit? Most times when folks pass me, I meet them at the stop light at the end of coal creek. What time did you save? Potentially increased the danger for you and others, yet you still didn't get any further. If time is such an issue, leave earlier. "
otto-matic wrote on Nov 19, 2008 8:35 AM:
" Speed limits are to be set on an engineering study. If the engineering study conducted by Cowlitz County determined the speed limits should be increased, and was not approved, then tickets can not be legally given.
Any speeding tickets given that was not based on an engineering study is invalid. "
Any speeding tickets given that was not based on an engineering study is invalid. "
comvoice wrote on Nov 19, 2008 8:51 AM:
" Does anyone care that public works wasted the time and money on this study? Not to mention the commissioners time and the residents who had to take time to come and testify? What recommendations is public works studying now? Who comes up with these studies anyway? "
Gondolapete wrote on Nov 19, 2008 9:49 AM:
" I see common sense eludes a lot of people on these issues..It's not about driving 90 MPH, its about driving a speed that is safe and acceptable for the stretch of road you are driving on..many of these limits were set when the roads were windy and narrow, as well as the cars of the time were not as safe to stop in a short distance..again , antiquated...and on another note, my brother, the cop, has told me tale after tale, of getting complaints of speeders on roads, only to give a speeding ticket to the person who originally called in the complaint... "
DUH wrote on Nov 19, 2008 10:25 AM:
" Hey otto-matic, try using that argument on a judge. Your comment was good for a real laugh this morning. speed limits are laws. They cannot be over ruled by a "study" They can only use a study to make recommendations. They DO NOT automatically change the laws. You don't like the fine? Stay in line! Obey the law. Quite simple actually. "
gimpy wrote on Nov 19, 2008 10:48 AM:
" Thank you, Commissioners for leaving the speed limits where they were. I do my best to drive 25 over Nevada Dr. and admit is hard, but the time saved by speeding pales in comparison to the time that would be needed to repair my car in the event of a collision, or to recover from an accident. And god forbid, you would never forget hitting a pedestrian or family pet. "
mranman wrote on Nov 19, 2008 11:16 AM:
" SM: Re-read the article(s)..they wanted to RAISE, not LOWER the limits!!! LOL.. you ppl are so ignorant. Can't even leave a cpl mins early to get where you're going, so u have to SPEED! A cpl years ago, there use to be deputy car parked EVERYDAY on Nev.Dr. Now you don't see squat. Guess they were too far from their "Donut Shoppe", so they quit. Maybe they should put a speed camera up here.. that would take care of things. What puzzles me is that by taking Freeway Route Nevada Dr. to get to west Longview, you FLY by on this road, drop down to Pacific Way on Virgina Way or Laurel Rd., and FLY over the speed bumps. 30th and 38th both have school zones, 42nd has speed bumps. No wonder ppl speed here.. cuz they can! We can try to get speed bumps up here too! Wanna speed? Take Interstate 5 from Lexington to south/west Longview. No muss, no fuss. Is quite a nice, relaxing drive! Yay for the ppl that went to the hearing and "voiced their opinions" :) "
otto-matic wrote on Nov 19, 2008 11:22 AM:
" To DUH:
Here is the RCW that says speed limits are based on an engineering study.
WAC 468-95-045
Agency filings affecting this section
Speed limit sign (R2-1).
Revise MUTCD Section 2B.13 to read:
Standard:
Speed Limits (R2-1) signs (see Figure 2B-1) shall display the speed limit established by statute; or, by an ordinance or regulation adopted by the authorized agency, based on the engineering study or traffic investigation required by RCW 46.61.405, 46.61.410, and 46.61.415. The speed limit shall be set in multiples of 10 km/h or 5 mph.
So research before you critize. "
Here is the RCW that says speed limits are based on an engineering study.
WAC 468-95-045
Agency filings affecting this section
Speed limit sign (R2-1).
Revise MUTCD Section 2B.13 to read:
Standard:
Speed Limits (R2-1) signs (see Figure 2B-1) shall display the speed limit established by statute; or, by an ordinance or regulation adopted by the authorized agency, based on the engineering study or traffic investigation required by RCW 46.61.405, 46.61.410, and 46.61.415. The speed limit shall be set in multiples of 10 km/h or 5 mph.
So research before you critize. "
Gondolapete wrote on Nov 19, 2008 11:48 AM:
" my 93 yr old grandmother even agrees 25 is way too slow on Nevada drive...if 35 is too fast, I can only assume you must be driving cars made prior to 1980...I drive that road all the time, and its next to impossible to keep at 25..and coming down the hill, you are riding your brakes the whole way..dont try and tell me, that 35 is too fast... "
DUH wrote on Nov 19, 2008 12:02 PM:
" otto-matic, You send me RCW's regarding how signs are to be displayed? Speed Limits (R2-1) signs (see Figure 2B-1) shall display the speed limit established by statute; or, by an ordinance or regulation adopted by the authorized agency, based on the engineering study or traffic investigation. The speed limit changes were requested by County Public Works officials but, were NOT adopted by the authorized agency. The Cowlitz County commissioners. (The authorized agency) But hey, good luck with your argument before the judge. Stay in line or pay the fine. Obey the law! "
Saturos wrote on Nov 19, 2008 12:06 PM:
" Looser laws, harsher consequences. Let them raise the speed limit but let anybody who is caught speeding badly be screwed totally. I'm talking 1500$ fines. That would stop it. "
mranman wrote on Nov 19, 2008 12:11 PM:
" So, Mr. otto-matic: you showed us the rcw on the display of how the signs are to be read, and whom the agency is... NOW, show us the rcw that says: "If the engineering study conducted by Cowlitz County determined the speed limits should be increased, and was not approved, then tickets can not be legally given. Any speeding tickets given that was not based on an engineering study is invalid". Especially the part on the legality of the tickets given are invalid! "
otto-matic wrote on Nov 19, 2008 12:28 PM:
" Here we go:
RCW 46.61.415
When local authorities may alter maximum limits.
(1) Whenever local authorities in their respective jurisdictions determine on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that the maximum speed permitted under RCW 46.61.400 or 46.61.440 is greater or less than is reasonable and safe under the conditions found to exist upon a highway or part of a highway, the local authority may determine and declare a reasonable and safe maximum limit thereon which
(a) Decreases the limit at intersections; or
(b) Increases the limit but not to more than sixty miles per hour; or
(c) Decreases the limit but not to less than twenty miles per hour.
This means that any road that is not the maximum limit, the speed should be set by an engineering study "
RCW 46.61.415
When local authorities may alter maximum limits.
(1) Whenever local authorities in their respective jurisdictions determine on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that the maximum speed permitted under RCW 46.61.400 or 46.61.440 is greater or less than is reasonable and safe under the conditions found to exist upon a highway or part of a highway, the local authority may determine and declare a reasonable and safe maximum limit thereon which
(a) Decreases the limit at intersections; or
(b) Increases the limit but not to more than sixty miles per hour; or
(c) Decreases the limit but not to less than twenty miles per hour.
This means that any road that is not the maximum limit, the speed should be set by an engineering study "
seriously wrote on Nov 19, 2008 12:35 PM:
" I drive Nevada everyday Gondolapete and it is possible to stay within 25mph. If you're so worried about your brakes, then don't drive the road. It certainly won't hurt my feelings to see one less leadfoot on my street. By the way, my vehicle is a 2004 and 35 is still too fast. Why don't I let you try and pull out of my driveway, mow my lawn, or try checking my mail while cars are driving within inches of you going 35. I see the safety of others seems to elude you. "
nickandholly wrote on Nov 19, 2008 12:49 PM:
" DUH- Sorry about the cars in your yard those people were probably doing 50 mph in the rain and not paying attention. 35 mph is not going to make a car go off the road if the driver is paying attention to what they are doing. I have driven those roads more than once and 35 mph is not too fast. Even Olson Road has a higher speed limit and there are worse corners on that road. One of these days they will raise the speed limit. "
DUH wrote on Nov 19, 2008 12:53 PM:
" In your own comment there otto-matic, "the local authority MAY determine and declare a reasonable and safe maximum limit." The local authority (Cowlitz County Commissioners) determined it wasn't safe to raise the speed limits. Again, good luck with your argument before the judge. "
DUH wrote on Nov 19, 2008 1:00 PM:
" Gondolapete, you said, "the roads have been widened and made safer in that time." Yes the roads have been widened but, made safer for who? The driver? The residents along those streets? When the widening work was done, the roads edge was placed 6 feet closer to my house. Now the cars are traveling 6 feet closer to my house and you want them to raise the speed limit by 10mph? How is that safer for me? My children? My property? "
mranman wrote on Nov 19, 2008 1:11 PM:
" O-M: LOL... again you have failed to come up with the rcw of where it says that the legality of a ticket would be invalid. Keep reading and searching, dewd... or dewdette, whichever the case! Gondo: brakes are cheap... what's ur next defense? Speaking of backing/pulling out on my street... I decided to make a u-turn driveway just so I wouldn't have to "BACK-OUT" onto Interstate Nevada Drive. Ya know, this is getting boring argueing with "bloggers". If ya didn't like the results of the hearing, then go whine to them and get another hearing set-up. See ya there! "
DUH wrote on Nov 19, 2008 2:23 PM:
" nickandholly, Thank you for your concern. I don't know what Olsen Rd. has to do with me but, Olsen Rd. is a straight stretch. The curves you are referring to are on Inglewood Dr. If you take those curves at 35mph your tires are squealing and unless you are in a sports care made for that kind of driving, you will lose control. Of course roads are only going to be as safe as those that are driving on them but, with greater speeds come greater stopping distances. A lot of these roads have got very short sight distances. Such as Nevada Dr. for example. Why is it such a problem for people to take into consideration the safety of those that live along these roads all in order to get to Walmart two minutes sooner than somebody traveling at 25mph on these roads? The speed limit is 25... drivers do 40mph. Raise the limit to 35mph and they'll do 50mph. No matter what the limit is, people will still break it. Stay within the limit or get a ticket. The choice is yours. "
Gondolapete wrote on Nov 19, 2008 2:37 PM:
" I have lived in that area my whole life...35 MPH is not too fast on Nevada drive. I am sure many of the roads you all drive on the people who live there wish it was slower as well, but the truth is, those limits were set when cars did not have antilock brakes, and when it was not as safe period..You also complain about the freeway speed limits??? "
DUH wrote on Nov 19, 2008 2:45 PM:
" Um, in case you haven't noticed Gondolapete, the freeway is NOT a residential street or road. "
seriously wrote on Nov 19, 2008 3:39 PM:
" Gondolapete, just because today's cars have antilock brakes doesn't make them any safer. Am I supposed to trust that Joe Blow is maintaining his brakes? I don't think so. I guarantee you that drivers are more reckless today than they were back when these roads were put it. So to say that roads are safer now because of improvements is ludicrous. The problem isn't with the roads, it's with the stupid drivers behind the wheel who don't know how to follow the rules and think they can make up their own. "
Gondolapete wrote on Nov 19, 2008 4:23 PM:
" Wel, lets just make it safe all the way around, and drop the limits all across the country to 10 MPH... "
joslm wrote on Nov 19, 2008 4:24 PM:
" hawkster...please, please get your facts right before making statements of knowledge...Washington State Patrol does not have quotas, they attempt to get atleast "10 contacts" during their shift, this could be a disabled vehicle, helping motorist, giving people warnings, ect, and this is not a must or a quota. So don't give false facts. Also Tennant Way is a State Route for all that don't know. "
owlcreekcats wrote on Nov 19, 2008 5:37 PM:
" i am so happy to have fish pond road still the same speed limit of 30 mph. we are out in the county and we have no sidewalks and the kids wait on the road for the school bus daily, people ride their bikes and horses...i have seen cars going so fast. i always wonder how people would like others to speed past their houses at 60+ mph! just leave a few minutes earlier in the morning...it just might save you from getting a ticket. "
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