Longview to tackle homeless camping
Friday, November 7, 2008 12:58 AM PST
By Amy M.E. Fischer
Printable version
E-mail this articleThe Longview City Council wrestled Thursday with creating a camping ordinance that would protect the community’s health and safety while not persecuting poor people or RV owners.
“We have struggled with how to do this,” City Attorney Marilyn Nitteberg-Haan told the council in her presentation about the draft legislation she created. “We recognize the many, many issues.”
Faced with a rising number of people illegally camping in tents and living in RVs in city limits, Longview police, code enforcement and fire department officials have asked the council for tools to cite them.
But at Thursday’s workshop, Councilman Andy Busack equated the measure with harassing the poor who have few options.
“You’re making it a crime to be low-income. I’m sure if these people could afford to put themselves up for 30 bucks a night they’d rather do that,” Busack said.
Councilwoman Mary Jane Melink, however, said she wasn’t sure allowing illegal camping was the right way to address homelessness.
One audience member suggested the city workwith non-profit social service groups. Another audience member, downtown business builder Hank Sowerwine, suggested the lengths Longview goes to help the needy and homeless makes the problem bigger.
“They’re coming to our town because we’re doing such a great job taking care of these folks,” Sowerwine said. “There are communities that are not tolerating what we tolerate, and we are the place they come to.”
Longview police put on a slide show of battered RVs parked around town. One photo showed an RV’s sewer pipe leaking waste onto the street. There was a picture of an RV with a wood stove inside for heat. Other photos showed make-shift campsites in city alleys and homeless people’s belongings heaped around trees downtown.
Under the proposed ordinance, camping in parks, streets, sidewalks, parking lots or publicly or privately owned areas would be prohibited. Their “camping equipment” and belongings could be confiscated. Illegal campers would be warned once and then be cited with a misdemeanor for subsequent violations, which carry a maximum penalty of a $1,000 fine and/or 90 days in jail. Someone who’s cited three times within a year for living in an RV could have his RV immediately impounded.
The council decided to put the draft legislation on the next meeting’s agenda for public comment and could formally adopt it at a meeting in December.
Nitteberg-Haan emphasized that the legislation was not intended to go after kids pitching a tent in their backyard or Grandma and Grandpa coming to town in an RV for a family visit. Recreational RV owners could get a free 14-day permit from the city after showing their rigs had proper sanitation and trash receptacles and weren’t somehow dangerously built. The legislation’s purpose was to stop people whose permanent home was a tent or RV from loitering in Longview, she said.
The permit process ideally would reduce the amount of time city staff must spend “playing the game” with people who move their RVs around the city, she said. Currently, the only tool police have to deal with such RVs is through the abandoned vehicle process, which takes a minimum of 72 hours. People “camping” in RVs have become aware of the three-day time limit and know when to move the vehicle to avoid a citation.
The proposed ordinance isn’t nearly as strict as other cities’ such as Olympia, which bans RVs on streets between 1 and 6 a.m., Nitteberg-Haan said.
Jeanne Hartshorn, a county resident who traveled 14,000 miles with her husband in their RV last year, said the council should make a distinction between RVers and squatters. She said the average cost to stay in an RV park is $26 per night, which amounts to $780 a month. Because their RV is completely self-contained with water and sanitation, they don’t need hookups, and frequently get permission to park in Wal-Mart parking lots around the country, she said.
“We don’t put anything outside. We don’t do any damage,” she said.
GregN wrote on Nov 7, 2008 12:04 AM:
" To Business and home owners that are affected by the homeless either camping or squatting in front of where you live and work: I think we should suggest all of the homeless to camp in front of the city council persons' residences. They seem to be okay allowing them to stay in front of where you live or affecting your business, so I think it is only fair. Let's bring that up at the next meeting. "
WoodyWoodHead wrote on Nov 7, 2008 6:47 AM:
" My house is in the city, one block from the county line. Would this proposal just move the RVers to my neck of the woods. If so, then there will be lots of complaints to the County! "
somedude wrote on Nov 7, 2008 7:40 AM:
" here is an idea, why don't we just leave them alone and worry about bigger problems, such as keeping jobs in our community, I have never been bothered by any homeless person since I have been in this area and that's 35 years now, I mean for God sakes it's not like tent city in Portland. And as far as the R.V.'s goes, if pople want to park one in their front yard and have ten family's living in it thats none of my concern they should be able to, it's their property and they have right to do what they will. The people of this town have bigger problems than this to be conerned with and if you keep up your selfish anal retentive way's we are going to have alot more people living on the streets! "
Local Yokel wrote on Nov 7, 2008 8:07 AM:
" What if we pushed for legislation that would give a break in City Business Taxes for employers who train and employ a homeless person?
What if we pushed for legislation for Cowlitz County vacant property owners who will open their land to homeless camps where tents and portable toilets/showers could be provided or partially subsidised, and in return provide those owners with the same or a similar property tax decrease like we give to agricultural or timber lands?
What if our city leaders called on the pastors and community workers HERE to form a coalition and one phone where local people could call for nuisance disturbances and volunteers could go out and assist in moving homeless folks to just such a transition area?
What if we offered a tax credit to businesses who would be willing to sponsor a homeless person or family for retraining and integration into the workforce?
What if we offered a free bus pass for these folks if they are going to work?
What if we offered a largely reduced or eliminated city/county tax on anyone willing to open a group rehabilitation home?
Is anyone talking about any of the ways we can encourage Government to quit trying to police and start encouraging the community itself to deal with the very real issues of poverty? "
What if we pushed for legislation for Cowlitz County vacant property owners who will open their land to homeless camps where tents and portable toilets/showers could be provided or partially subsidised, and in return provide those owners with the same or a similar property tax decrease like we give to agricultural or timber lands?
What if our city leaders called on the pastors and community workers HERE to form a coalition and one phone where local people could call for nuisance disturbances and volunteers could go out and assist in moving homeless folks to just such a transition area?
What if we offered a tax credit to businesses who would be willing to sponsor a homeless person or family for retraining and integration into the workforce?
What if we offered a free bus pass for these folks if they are going to work?
What if we offered a largely reduced or eliminated city/county tax on anyone willing to open a group rehabilitation home?
Is anyone talking about any of the ways we can encourage Government to quit trying to police and start encouraging the community itself to deal with the very real issues of poverty? "
Ella Mentry wrote on Nov 7, 2008 8:07 AM:
" That's right. Let them know Longview won't put up with them anymore. Take away their only possessions and fine them! Then they'll move on to another area and we won't have to be reminded that there are poor among us. We won't have to be reminded that it's our responsibility as human beings to have empathy and compassion. We should go one step further and line them all up in shackles in the city center so they *really* learn their lesson. The audacity of someone living on the streets. "
Ella Mentry wrote on Nov 7, 2008 8:11 AM:
" The city probably paid thousands of dollars for a consultant to report that homelessness was a nasty little blemish and wasn't "pretty." "
stableone wrote on Nov 7, 2008 8:19 AM:
" "Somedude" We already have people coming from everywhere that are homeless. Cowlitz County has let these people dirty up our town. If we don't put some kind of laws in effect we will be just like Portland, Way out of Control when it comes to homeless people hanging around begging, stealing, and tearing up our city. There needs to be something done when you can drive by the community house and see a makeshift tent set up along 11th ave and people sleeping on the streets. I for one am tired of people coming up to my car when stopped at a stop sign asking for money. There are programs out there to help them, They just don't want help. They need to go to some other town and do there BEGGING. "
Local Yokel wrote on Nov 7, 2008 8:51 AM:
" Stableone: They are the least of these our brethren, and there but for the grace of the Divine go you and I. The real problem is our callousness that has come as a result of us not knowing what to do to resolve the issue. This issue calls for REAL CHANGES; not the timeworn "changes" used by others that HAVE NOT ELIMINATED THE PROBLEM! We have to start thinking outside the box! If we can afford to pay police, judges, jails, medics, clerks and auto expenses to police the issue, we can afford to actually HELP. Y E S, W E C A N!!!! "
longrangeplan wrote on Nov 7, 2008 9:17 AM:
" Local Yokel, you are right on the money with your proposals. Many people in this town, if they were laid off, are less than 3 months away from being homeless themselves. It is true that there are people that do not want assistance; but we should not turn our backs on those that need a temporary hand to get back on their feet. We are in the midst of some hard economic times - dealing with this issue by saying: "go someplace else where we don't have to see you" is not only heartless, but unrealistic. "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Nov 7, 2008 9:24 AM:
" Local Yokel, you are all for giving tax breaks. My question: Wasn't it just reported that the city is facing budget cuts. Now you want to take money out of the budget for this problem. Doesn't that just make the other problems worse? And our state is facing a $3 billion deficit and again you are taking about removing tax money. Here is a suggestion: How about the Liberals who get so excited over helping these people all get together. Set up a fund and contribute money to it to pay for the costs that you propose. I'm sure all you Liberals can afford a buck for a homeless person can't you? If you are so sympathetic and want to see so much done, how about taking it on your shoulders to do it. We have bigger issues for our tax dollars -- crime, schools, paying off Da Tax Queen's union partnerships. All this problem will take is for the Liberals to step up and do their part. We don't need government dollars here, we need Liberal dollars. "
Old School wrote on Nov 7, 2008 9:25 AM:
" So let me see if I understand this.... The Government enables the economy to crash which it does, people loose their jobs, then their houses, lack of house means homelessness. Then the same government that created the conditions to make a lot of these people homeless is persecuting them for being homeless? Makes total sense to me.... I agree that it is not uncle sam's job to grow a job and a house for everyone but the least that could be done is give businesses a reason to stay in the United States to stay in Washington and to stay in Cowlitz county. "
thevoice wrote on Nov 7, 2008 9:32 AM:
" How about if the city trys to help instead of fining, imponding and jail time. Jail time would just cost the city, and over crowd our already overcrowded jail. What would this accomplish? Do you really think a homeless person could pay a $1000 fine?
And taking thier possessions? that would surely solve the problem!!!
How about if the city set up a place for them to camp, or turned one of our vacant buildings into a shelter. "
And taking thier possessions? that would surely solve the problem!!!
How about if the city set up a place for them to camp, or turned one of our vacant buildings into a shelter. "
Local Yokel wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:01 AM:
" Bad Boy: When poverty is reduced, the City/County/State public health and safety spending is cut tremendously. Have you ever looked into the issue? Have you looked at how much of our spending goes into dealing with the issues we criminalize? You are no conservative, dear sir. Those reductions I suggested were only that: suggestions. I think that if you relieve the burden on businesses, they will employ. Have you got any idea what rate is being charged by the City of Kelso to businesses? Look into it! If we lower it, we employ. If we employ, we have people in houses. If we have people in houses, they are reducing the PUD burden to all of us. If they reduce that burden, some of us might afford a movie at the end of the week. The effects CAN and DO work. Just ask the Governor of Alaska. I commended her highly for her cuts to small businesses and her incentive programs for employers. There is no reason we cannot use those same methods to reduce poverty successfully. "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:10 AM:
" All you Liberals who are unhappy about how the city intends to tackle this growning health and safety problem need to step up and do your share instead of criticizing the city or asking for bigger government to solve this. How about some action on your part. How about you all band to together. You proved to us all just how many of you there are. So why do you all get together, create a fund, donate your Liberal dollars to it, manage it, and tackle this. You provide the funds for all the tax breaks Local Yokel wants to give. Come now all you Liberals certainly aren't all talk are you? There are creative ways to tackle this. The City is doing exactly what cities do. They manage situations through the law. But you Liberals can show us it can be done differently. Show us your style of tackling these problems. Conservatives take action mainly through church groups. So come on Liberals let see some action from you here instead of pushing it off onto a local and state government already strapped for dollars. I'm guessing that all the Liberals above who have damned the local officials for their actions won't take any. There only answer is to throw tax dollars at it. There are other ways. But not to the Liberals, government, government, and more government is the only way. "
Roudyruss wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:18 AM:
" I hate to tell all you dogooders but most, NOT ALL, but most of the homeless are druggies. How do I kow this you ask? Becouse I was one of them and when I pulled my head out of my a-- and cleaned up I was able to get a job and a home. There are tons of programs around to help homeless people, clean and sober homeless people that is! "
mom of four wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:27 AM:
" Local Yokel why should I spend my money on a homeless person sitting outside of fred meyer asking for money when he has a dog and a bike? He can go to the community house and take a shower get some nicer clothes on and go apply at a fast food resturanut. Why doesn't he do that? Oh I know because he and like other ppl in this town scam off others! I offered him to mow my lawn for $40.00 guess what HE TURNED IT DOWN!
Then once my kids and I were at McD's and this guy with no legs was just asking for food. Guess what I took him in McD's bought him alot of food and I have never seen him again. Maybe he was down and out and needed the help, and that person I don't mind helping but don't hold a sign sayiong willing to work for money or food cause you my friend are a SCAMER! "
Then once my kids and I were at McD's and this guy with no legs was just asking for food. Guess what I took him in McD's bought him alot of food and I have never seen him again. Maybe he was down and out and needed the help, and that person I don't mind helping but don't hold a sign sayiong willing to work for money or food cause you my friend are a SCAMER! "
stableone wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:32 AM:
" Most of these homeless people are not even from our area! They find out they are allowed to get away with all these things and think our town is great. If start opening homeless shelters it only tells more homeless people that they can come to Cowlitz County. We need to find a way to help the people in our community that have lost their jobs due to the strain on the economy, so THEY won't become homeless. There are alot of good people that are being forced out of their homes. When prospective companies come to our area they are put through some very tough and brutal tests, maybe the city council should think about giving some of them companies a chance. Maybe thats the reason we can't keep a business at the Mint Farm! What is going on in the County!!! First Reynolds, Now Fibre, what next Weyehauser!!! We will be a ghost town with nothing but homeless people!! "
country gal wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:38 AM:
" 'Homeless' is a touchy subject. I always asked myself, why are they homeless? We know that there are those that chose and want to be homeless. Then there are those, because of unfortunate circumstances, have no choice. Local Yokel, you do have some good points, at the same time, what caused them to be homeless? Did they get taxed out of their home? Did lawsuit happy people drive them out of their home? IRS? State? Unemployment? I bet you most are caused by heavy taxes & fees added by politicians working for the state & federal. Remember, we the people, have to pay these politicians first including their health & retirement benefits and they are becoming a burden to us taxpayers. It's time for PAYCUT & REDUCED GOVERNMENT. I'm going to address my 'beef' to the Senator and Governor. I hope many of you will do the same. "
Local Yokel wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:48 AM:
" mom of four: Your tax dollars ARE being spent on those you don't want to deal with. I just made suggestions on HOW that spending could be changed to really make a difference. Your tax dollars pay for the medics - because the homeless cannot pay. Your tax dollars pay for the police - because the homeless cannot pay. Your tax dollars pay for the jail cells - because the homeless cannot pay. You already pay. This is no different. But to answer your question as to WHY you should help another human being? You could soon be one of them. I could soon be one of them. What you do today makes a difference tomorrow. FEAR has paralyzed our nation, to the point that compassion is hard to find. And, since when did you or I become the judge and jury on who should or should not receive help? Why should we sit back and do nothing, just in case we might get scammed? Why must our souls be locked down tight for fear that we may be take advantage of? Isn't that a loss of freedom? And what if our goodness and kindness perpetuated like behavior? Should we not find out? Should our children no learn from our example? "
rosy wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:48 AM:
" If everyone's concerned about them, the biggest worry here should be about the mentally ill. Agencies from the surronding areas like Vancouver have a 'backup plan' called "Greyhoud Therapy". The agency buys a bus ticket for the client and sends them to Longview. And presto, it's our problem. Another 'camper'. I don't have a clue as to what to do about it. It's gonna be a lose-lose deal. Whatever happens, we're gonna look bad.
Good Luck. "
Good Luck. "
Local Yokel wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:54 AM:
" I guess the real question we need to ask ourselves is "What motivates me to do something good?" Is it the reward? Is it recognition? Is it a "thank you" that I'm looking for? If our answers to any of the above are "Yes" then perhaps a soul-searching moment is in order. If we do for others with an expectation in return, we have committed a business act; not an act of kindness, charity or love. Love asks for nothing in return and is often repaid tenfold. "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:58 AM:
" Once again, Local Yokel, I ask you why don't you Liberals just band together, create a local fund and pay for what you propose that way. Why does it have to be done with government money? Why. Please simply answer that. "
Local Yokel wrote on Nov 7, 2008 11:16 AM:
" You and I, Bad Boy, ARE THE GOVERNMENT. "The Government" you refer to is comprised of individuals appointed by YOU and I to spend our money. Why do you call me a "Liberal"? Are you a "Conservative"? I am just your neighbor. I pay just like you do. You and I both have the ability to change the way OUR money is spent. Why do YOU insist that "the Government" be a separate institution from You and Me? Why should "the Government" of the people, by the people and for the people not expend "the people's" resources on what benefits "the people"? You are a confusing individual to say the least. I thought YOU of all posters here would want to actively Govern in your community to relieve the burdens on business and open opportunity to the community for betterment. How does fining and jailing homeless people benefit you, personally? And how does the tax bill for that particular resolution fit into your budget? I do pay! So do many conservatives, liberals and moderates. The "labeling" is silliness. Either you are FOR fiscal responsibility or you aren't. Can we discuss what is or is not fiscally responsible for All of Us? "
FanInTheStands wrote on Nov 7, 2008 11:25 AM:
" I would have no problem supporting any type of homeless assistance---IF those applying are willing to undergo regular drug testing and work in some capacity. My frustration comes from hearing people complain who are doing nothing to help their own cause. But alot of them just want a handout so they can still sit around and do nothing. And as far as the drug testing being a violation of personal rights my thought is if you are asking for something for FREE you should be willing to give something in return. "
Resident wrote on Nov 7, 2008 11:35 AM:
" If the greedy landlords would lower rents more low income people could afford to have a place to live. "
midnight_bottle wrote on Nov 7, 2008 11:48 AM:
" Aren't there enough programs for the homeless already without us throwing money at more? Most of the people being talked about in this particular situation are druggies and criminals, not your average joes who've been laid off. I agree that we need to do something to get the low lifes out of Longview and Cowlitz County. We are a joke to people in surrounding counties because of our "tolerance" when it comes to druggies, criminals, and other assorted low lifes. If these people don't want to try and better themselves or their situation, then we need to take action against them! Send them down to Portland where there is a tent city already set up. I say good riddance to bad rubish! The difference is clear - average joes and janes who've lost their jobs and been laid off are normally looking for a new way to support themselves and their families, i.e. a new job or some form of income. Lowlifes are too busy looking for their next high or whatever to do anything productive. Get them off the streets and out of our county and see how much of a better place Longview/Kelso becomes without them... "
DUH wrote on Nov 7, 2008 11:53 AM:
" Hey I know, Lets put the unemployed to work building temporary housing for the homeless. then once they get on their feet they can afford to move into their own place. give them no more than a year to accomplish this. If they don't do it in a year then that's their problem which in turn becomes our problem once again. Maybe we can cite eminent domain and take property away from the port for land to build the homes on. "
country gal wrote on Nov 7, 2008 12:03 PM:
" Local Yokel: you're right about we are the 'Government'. However, the government we appointed by you and I may not always agree. To separate the Government and the people that work for the state & federal, I will call them Politicians. As I mentioned in the past comments, we're overburdened by them. If we need to solve the problem, we need to 'Prune' from the top down. "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Nov 7, 2008 12:09 PM:
" Local Yokel, I am proud to label myself as a Conservative and as a Republican I do not WANT more government. Unlike you Liberals, I do not think that government and tax dollars are the answer to all the problems, particularly of this nature. This is a people problem and if you don't want these people to be moved or jailed or fined then again I offer you a simple solution. Instead of asking to have a social engineering agenda, how about the people with the social engineering agenda step forward and tackle a social engineering problem for once. If every Liberal in Cowlitz County gave $10 or $20 to a fund, that would probably be more than enough to do everything that you asked in your original post. This is not a burden I want my government to be saddled with. If you Liberals want to keep these people from running afoul with the law, then put together a private plan that can accomplish your dreams. This idea that every time there is a Liberal wish, we have to spend tax dollars on it is crazy. Our local and state budgets are running at or going to run at a deficit. Find a different way. "
mom of four wrote on Nov 7, 2008 12:13 PM:
" Local Yokel~ Well I have 4 kids and it is not easy to get by, we can barely afford are medical can I get some money from you personally each month so you can support me? No, okay just making a point. My family and I manage very well we can afford are bills and are living. Why? Well it's because we found out that you can not live off someone else and if you keep letting ppl live off of you whether it be thru taxes or your brother asking you for money they will continue to do so. Until you tell them NO! Sure they might go homeless but is that my problem NO! Get a job, our city has job openings everyday. You say well i'm not qualifed.....okay then guess what our state has programs just for this reason for ppl to BETTER THEMSELVES. There will always be another option out there, then to be homeless. It is a way that ppl choose. I help our community out I donate money to meals on wheels, I help the cancer funds, take a angel off the tree...does it make me feel good sure does it help someone else out sure do I want anything back yes, I wont that person to be a good citizin and do good for the next person. Is that to much to ask? In Longview~ANSWER YES. "
Tired of it wrote on Nov 7, 2008 12:39 PM:
" did the CHANGE already come and I missed it? I from the goverment and I am here to help. "
Atrucker wrote on Nov 7, 2008 1:32 PM:
" Instead of playing the blame game which you love so much TDN Bad Boy, how about some GOP, Bush ideas from you.
And I do not want to hear liberal anything , out of your pipes.
I want ideas that are founded on facts not B.S. and see where it goes. I am up to my eyeballs in B.S. on this subject.
Why do I hear a sucking sound every time I pass Longview. ? Maybe it is just the toilet flushing .
I don't buy the all druggies stuff either, show me the proof. "
And I do not want to hear liberal anything , out of your pipes.
I want ideas that are founded on facts not B.S. and see where it goes. I am up to my eyeballs in B.S. on this subject.
Why do I hear a sucking sound every time I pass Longview. ? Maybe it is just the toilet flushing .
I don't buy the all druggies stuff either, show me the proof. "
Thought wrote on Nov 7, 2008 1:44 PM:
" Da Messiah be here and will solve all us mere mortals problems. I sure hate eating crow but in a year or so it will taste a hell of alot better then possum!!!! "
onaprayer wrote on Nov 7, 2008 1:53 PM:
" The "homeless" that were taking over the sidewalk on 11th and Broadway were people who had been given their basic needs-food, shelter, clothing-from the Community House. They were given the necessary tools to improve their lives-staying clean getting a job, etc. However, they made a choice not to follow through and left the program. The community on a whole should not cater to their decision to be lazy, drink, do drugs and remain unemployed. "
just the facts, ma'am wrote on Nov 7, 2008 2:44 PM:
" For perspective:
Check here -
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/14/pf_07charities_The-200-Largest-U.S.-Charities_PrivSupport.html
This lists the 200 largest charities in the U.S. and details where their funding comes from. Only one of the top 16 (I stopped looking after that) gets most of its funding from the government - Catholic Charities USA, interestingly enough. The relevance to this discussion is up to you, but I think it is safe to assume that charitable efforts do not need to depend on government aid to be successful. In fact, most of them (at least on this list) depend on the government to such a small extent, that arguably they do not need any government assistance to function in essentially the same capacity.
Maybe the question should be if the government, whether it's passing laws or funding charitable efforts, is really the most effective solution to this problem. "
Check here -
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/14/pf_07charities_The-200-Largest-U.S.-Charities_PrivSupport.html
This lists the 200 largest charities in the U.S. and details where their funding comes from. Only one of the top 16 (I stopped looking after that) gets most of its funding from the government - Catholic Charities USA, interestingly enough. The relevance to this discussion is up to you, but I think it is safe to assume that charitable efforts do not need to depend on government aid to be successful. In fact, most of them (at least on this list) depend on the government to such a small extent, that arguably they do not need any government assistance to function in essentially the same capacity.
Maybe the question should be if the government, whether it's passing laws or funding charitable efforts, is really the most effective solution to this problem. "
AnotherLameOpinion wrote on Nov 7, 2008 3:05 PM:
" We should form a homeless camp with outhouses and garbage cans. It should be the only legal place to camp. Police could do a walk through daily or frequently and check ID's and run warrents. If a person is honestly hard on their luck, they will have a place to be until they can change their circumstances. If they are a druggie/have warrents, then the police will have a place to pick them up from. Once they aren't willing to go there because they are wanted, then you can assume every creapy guy camping in the bush is a criminal/wanted and call the police on them. It provides a fair solution to the homeless problem while still trying to weed out the druggies/criminals. If I were homeless and not a criminal, I wouldn't think I shouldn't have too much objection to showing my ID daily for the priveledge to have a place to be. "
El Gabilon wrote on Nov 7, 2008 3:21 PM:
" Why does it always take an earthquake, a mountian blowing its top, a flood, a hurricane, or tornado for humans to come together? On Sunday the churches are full, the preacher preaches love & kindness, we drop a dime into the collection plate and tell ourselves we are good people. Are we? Or is it all for "show"...like the president who carrys the bible and makes sure everyone sees it. Do the math! There are more people than there are jobs, therefore someone is not going to be able to get a job and support his/her family. It has always been that way for the most part. And yes, there are the few bums out there who wouldn't work even if they could. The merchant doesn't want the homeless around his/her business. The homeowner doesn't want them around their homes, the city doesn't want them on city streets. Yet, if one of these people won 30 million in a lottery all of the above would be groveling at their tent to grab as much as they could get. Ask any big lottery winner what happens after they win. Before a homeless person became homeless merchants were dumping adds on their doorstep to get them to come in. Poverty breeds contempt...yet Christianity and other religions preach "love, kindness, concern, you are your brothers keeper, care for the poor, love one another etc. Anyone got a bucket we can vomit in. Hypocrits "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Nov 7, 2008 3:37 PM:
" El Gabilon so if I have children and I don't want these people in my neighborhood pumping their raw sewage onto the street, I am a bad person? You don't like religious people, I get it. So why don't you Liberals all get together, form a charity, contribute to your non-demnominational charity and provide for these people? I'm guessing you have done very little in giving toward a solution to the problem. You simply want to blame religious people for not having sympathy. Well I am sympathetic toward them. But I am also concerned for the health and safety of by area. And that comes before all us to me. There is nothing wrong with not wanting these people in our area or not wanting to spending government money on them. That's our right too. I give more than my share through my faith groups. Sorry you don't like that we require people to follow a certain principle if they want help. But those are our standards. It's how we choose to spend our money. How about you? Have you called your charity today and said I want to give some money to help with this problem. Or are you just on here attacking. "
El GabAlot wrote on Nov 7, 2008 4:34 PM:
" Atrucker, the economy took a nose dive in 2006. Enough said. The "Chosen One" will take over the second worst economy give to an incoming president, the worst economy inherited by an incoming president, Ronald Regan from Jimmy Carter. "
El GabAlot wrote on Nov 7, 2008 4:47 PM:
" Atrucker, There will be more people homeless and unemployed when the "Chosen One" takes over and when the Bushes tax cuts go from 36% to around 44% because in the words of Joe Biden "it's our patriotic duty to pay more taxes", and thats just for starters. And what did you do with your stimulus check, I can bet you didn't give it back to the government. Oh and before you try to label me as a conservative or a republican, please don't I'm not either one, I just like keeping as much money as I earn to myself and not giving it to some wasteful politician. "
Atrucker wrote on Nov 7, 2008 5:11 PM:
" TDN Badboy , you broke my rules my saying liberal , game over , you are out.
It seems to me slick Willie balanced the buget. Something few presidents have done . Just callin it like I see it . Bush ran this country so much like Germany in world war 2 in is not even funny.
Why do we have home land security? Not for what you think . "
It seems to me slick Willie balanced the buget. Something few presidents have done . Just callin it like I see it . Bush ran this country so much like Germany in world war 2 in is not even funny.
Why do we have home land security? Not for what you think . "
woodywoodhead wrote on Nov 7, 2008 5:21 PM:
" mom of four: you are correct! these people will not work for food! they just want a hand out, which LV is too willing to "hand out" and not prevent it...These people could have a job if they wanted to, but why if they can have "hand outs" that probably pay more than minimum wage per day and just use the money to "wait for it" not pay bills but use for....... "
El GabAlot wrote on Nov 7, 2008 5:53 PM:
" Atrucker, You alot of the effects of a president after they leave office. Slick Willie cut the heck out of the military and what do ya know, the American Embassies in Africa gets bombed, nothing done, so they move onto something bigger, Madaline Albright stated that when we go into Middle Eastern waters that we will not be readily armed, so guess what happens, the USS Cole is attacked, why because the terrorists knows this and again, nothing is done. So when Bush takes over, since nothing has been done before they see it fit to attack us on our own land. So he might have been able to balance the budget and alot of dollars came from cutting the military, but at what sacrafices. "
mad monkeys wrote on Nov 7, 2008 6:42 PM:
" 1.3 million Of our countries homeless are children. The average age of homeless people in our own country is the age of 9. Yet you can all sit their in your comfy homes and offices and banish these people and refuse to train, help whatever their need maybe. Then on the same note complain because they are there. Complain because they make you uncomfortable, or scare you. If ever you are in that situation that your fellow man do not shun you or banish you. Cold hearted and calloused people ready to condemn someone for a run of bad luck. So, is this how you feel when or if someone mentions the homeless in other countries? Do you call them scum? What makes you better? "
Boo Khaki wrote on Nov 7, 2008 6:44 PM:
" Local Yokel I commend your bravery. Some folks have a hard time when others offer up fresh ideas to tackle old problems. Dialogue is good for all involved. What is that old saying "When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." People need to realize that we all pay into various social services; that is what separates us from unindustrialized third world countries along with our free market economy. Why don't people realize that it COSTS US TAXPAYERS MORE in the long run to fine homeless people and house them in the jail. Please someone do a cost comparison analysis. We will be spending tax money on this problem whether it is to hire staff to run the jail full of homeless people, or whether we help in other ways. I would rather invest in a person and give them the tools they need than fine them and overburden the taxpayers with another jail to actually house the real criminals. And for all of the scrooges out there. I hope none of your children ever come down with cancer and I hope that you don't burn through your life savings trying to save that child and get laid off from your job and you lose your insurance and you have to live in your RV that you can't park and your minimum wage job won't cover the basics but you earn $50 too much to qualify for food stamps. It happens! "
Taffeta wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:23 PM:
" It's amazing that they can find shelters for rapist and child molesters coming out of prison but a shelter for the homeless is not able to be provided. Oh yes there is Community House. Hardly enough to satisfy the increasing number of homeless. I don't agree that the majority are from out of town. If Olympia doesn't have the problem then maybe Olympia can suggest a solution. "
Raven wrote on Nov 7, 2008 11:37 PM:
" I find it sad, that this community has so many programs and are so willing to squeal like school girls whenever they see that they can help a homeless person, but if someone who has a home and is a bit down on their luck and needs some extra help gets turned away. No wonder the homless flock here. You're only accepted in this town if you're homeless! I moved to this community three years ago, and I've regretted it every since. Been trying to move out and into a decent town where the homeless and drug dealers aren't welcomed with open arms. "
loudly wrote on Nov 8, 2008 12:47 AM:
" I got to say, I agree with TDN badboy on this. How about all you liberal's offer up some of your property for the homeless. I mean, they don't have toilets to use so they go anywhere they can. Anyone notice the homeless camp that's popped up along the banks of the cowlitz river across from Westside hwy? Where do you think they're going to the bathroom? Come on dem's show us that you weren't just paying lip service. Give them your garage to sleep in! My guess is that most dem's vote that way out of guilt because they want the "collective" to spend money and not them personally. Prove me wrong. "
grrrowl wrote on Nov 8, 2008 1:23 AM:
" I posted a link to this article a couple days ago, I'll post it again http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/346602_wethousing09.html . It's about the Housing First programs in Seattle. They are saving about 3.2 million dollars of tax payer money a year with the program, because it dramatically cuts down on the residents visits to hospitals, treatment centers and jails. These programs both fiscally and socially responsible. Google "housing first" to learn more about it. "
kitten wrote on Nov 8, 2008 10:58 AM:
" Shut the doors on some of the services and flophouses for these people and they will find somewhere else to go. You never help the weak by allowing them to become weaker. That is what Longview is doing. This city is the biggest enabler I know. People going through hardship are different than people that are hardcases. When all you "helpers" understand that, you will finally start helping the homeless by forcing them to help themselves. Again, I am not talking about people going through hardships. "
viper wrote on Nov 8, 2008 12:10 PM:
" ( Mom of Four ) I agree with you I have tried to offer them a chance to come and do yard work and make some money but instead they act like I just insulted them
if they were really hungry and home less
I would think they would be willing to try to earn a little cash and of course they apply for a job as most jobs here are minimum wage jobs and they won't lower there selfs to work for minimum wage it's all just a scam to get free drug money why should they pay for there drug habit when you can I don't mind helping someone who wants it but first they have to want it no one can help someone that doesn't want it it's just a scam and will never get better as they have no need to get the help you think they need when they can play on your sympathy and get it for free with out doing any work for it there not homeless and there not hungry if they were they would try to work follow one around sometime you will see they have a home to go to "
if they were really hungry and home less
I would think they would be willing to try to earn a little cash and of course they apply for a job as most jobs here are minimum wage jobs and they won't lower there selfs to work for minimum wage it's all just a scam to get free drug money why should they pay for there drug habit when you can I don't mind helping someone who wants it but first they have to want it no one can help someone that doesn't want it it's just a scam and will never get better as they have no need to get the help you think they need when they can play on your sympathy and get it for free with out doing any work for it there not homeless and there not hungry if they were they would try to work follow one around sometime you will see they have a home to go to "
Atrucker wrote on Nov 8, 2008 2:38 PM:
" First off EL GABALOT my comments were not directed at you , but you chose to make it so. Second I did not get a dime from the government in kicker checks or income tax, They took all $900.00 of it and applied it to my medical bills , with out even asking , then our state of washington took almost the same amount from me for 3months of medicare , all in one bill which came to almost the same amount, I have been scrambling ever since to pay my monthly cost of living bills. I am like you I hate both parties . And they are run by something much more evil, that most belive they do not exsist, which is what they want any way. Do your home work EL GABALOT you will find who really is running the show. "
loudly wrote on Nov 8, 2008 7:22 PM:
" hey, atrucker...I might be mistaken but it almost sounds as if you're mad that you were forced to pay outstanding bills? That's kind of odd don't you think? Non payment of medical expenses is the reason that health insurance is costing me about 900 per month. Is that fair? Is is fair that I pay that much a month so you don't have to pay anything and when you're forced to pay you complain? funny. "
El GabAlot wrote on Nov 8, 2008 8:13 PM:
" Atrucker, First, I have done my homework, a lot more than you think and I stand by what I have stated. Second, you did get a dime, $900 worth of dimes went towards YOUR medical bills, now YOUR bill is either paid off or at least $900 smaller. Third, maybe it's you that doesn't really know who's running the show. "
onmymind wrote on Nov 8, 2008 8:32 PM:
" Badboy, if it isn't the governments responsibility then it must be each one of us including you. Those of us who pay taxes should have are own opinions of what we want our tax dollars spent on. If this means helping those in need then it should be spent. "
El GabAlot wrote on Nov 9, 2008 8:56 AM:
" "onmymind" I'm sure Badboy pays taxes, so therefore he is giving his opinion on how our (his) tax dollars are spent just like you stated, and if he pays his taxes then if it is the governments responsibility then I guess each one of us is paying for including you, whether we want to or not. Just because it's not your views it's still his opinion. "
tsprague1 wrote on Nov 9, 2008 11:34 AM:
" As a full-time RVer, I'm rather appalled at what I've been reading here. Most RVers have well maintained RV's. Aren't there already laws against discharging sewage? Why make another one? Just enforce the ones that are already on the books. I have several friends across the country where I have been invited to park at their place to visit. If it's at the last moment, with the laws that you are proposing, this will not be possible. Isn't it already against the law to camp in the public parks? Enforce the law. There are a lot of reasons for people becoming homeless. A lot of them, recently, has to do with the downturn in the economy. Most of those people will be living in their cars, though, not in an RV. A lot of the homeless are not druggies or alcoholics, they are mentally ill. Usually not dangerously, except to themselves. but those who are bi-polar, paranoid, schizophrenic (there are different kinds), etc. Those are people who, for most of their lives, were hard working people who barely hung on. When their illness got to be too much, they could no longer hold on. They have learned not to trust those who say they want to help them. When the majority of those people go through the system, they will no longer be on the streets. "
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