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Proposed Longview ordinance addresses illegal camping in city limits

Friday, November 7, 2008 6:18 PM PST

By Amy M.E. Fischer

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Longview police, code enforcement and fire department officials say there have been an increasing number of people camping in tents and RVs camping in city limits, prompting the city legal department to draft an ordinance giving the city authority to cite illegal campers.

The City Council will discuss the proposed ordinance at a workshop following Thursday's 7 p.m. council meeting. In drafting the legislation, city staff tried to ensure it would not apply to kids sleeping in a backyard tent or people camping at the fairgrounds for a special event, Community Development Director John Brickey says.

The ordinance would make it a misdemeanor for anyone to camp in parks, streets, sidewalks, parking lots or publicly or privately owned areas. For instance, a homeowner would not be permitted to rent his backyard to someone living in a tent, Brickey said.

In an Oct. 28 memo to the council, Police Chief Alex Perez said police are seeing a rising number of people living in motor homes and travel trailers parked on city streets and parking lots, prompting citizen complaints. Other people have been openly living on the grass between the sidewalk and street downtown or in tents pitched in parks and undeveloped open spaces, such as the area behind U-Haul on Oregon Way, Perez wrote.

According to Brickey, these camps pose a health and safety hazard due to trash accumulation, lack of running water and improper disposal of human feces. They’re also creating hassles for the fire department, which concerned citizens call after seeing unexplained smoke rising from hidden campsites and RVs outfitted with wood stoves, said Brickey, noting that a wood stove in an RV could create dangerous fumes or even an explosion.

Many of the RV dwellers are associated with criminal activity, Perez said in the memo.

“It is not uncommon to find drug users, drug dealers, burglars, or people who commonly engage in scavenging suddenly move into their neighborhood in an RV. ... Several of these vehicles have been seen leaking fluids from their bathroom waste tank onto the streets. Children have been living in these circumstances with parents on many occasions,” Perez wrote.

The only tool police have to deal with the problem is through the abandoned vehicle process, which takes a minimum of 72 hours. People “camping” in RVs have become aware of the three-day time limit and know when to move the vehicle to avoid a citation, Perez said.

Police don’t have an ordinance under which they may move, arrest, or cite people who camp in unauthorized places. These tent campers typically are homeless with problems such as substance abuse and mental illness that make it tough for them to obtain social services, Perez said.

Under the proposed ordinance, camping violators would first receive a warning. A person convicted of a first offense would face fines of up to $1,000 and/or up to 90 days in jail. Each infraction after that within a five-year period would face increasingly stiffer punishments.

Someone who’s cited three times within a year for camping in an RV could have his RV immediately impounded.

At Thursday's workshop, the council may direct city staff to kill the legislation or modify it. If the council decides to pursue the ordinance, it would be brought to the council later as a more formal proposal, Brickey said.

Previous

98626 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:40 AM:

" The article says a homeowner cannot "rent" his back yard to someone living in a tent...can someone live there free? Can people not park their rv's in drive ways and run a pud cord anylonger? Some Rv's are self contained with running water, sewer etc. This sounds too broad...What about Walmart parking lot? walmarts allow motorhomes to park in their parking lots all over the united states...does this mean all over the US except LV, WA? Property owners should be allowed to do as they please within reason & allowing an rv in the driveway sounds like within reason. During these economic times many people are living in rvs as this is all they can afford! "

Tortoise wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:50 AM:

" Yep, push the problems out into the county. "

biasmedia wrote on Nov 6, 2008 2:28 AM:

" WOW so you will fine and throw the homeless in jail??? that will send a good message if you fall on your face we will kick you when your down way to go longview keep up the good work of turning your back on your citizens when there in need "

DaCoug wrote on Nov 6, 2008 5:52 AM:

" My parents visit for a week about every three months. They stay in my fifth wheel that is parked beside my garage. I dont have room for them in the house and they are more comfortable in the fifth wheel since they keep a very different schedule than my family. I wonder if this new ordinance will force me to put them up in a hotel? I hope not my children enjoy the close relationship and I wouldnt be able to afford them to visit as often "

Mr. Chinook wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:09 AM:

" Question: How does a homeless person living in a tent pay a $1000.00 fine?
Answer: They don't (can't) pay so they do their 90 days anytime after November 1, when the rains start. "

viper wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:25 AM:

" I'm sure if they can't pay rent and live in tents that them paying a 1000.00 fine is going to be a real threat to them Plan on loading up some of that jail space it's winter time I'm sure being in jail would be warmer then living in a tent and they would be able to eat could be more of a plus then a negative be prepared to fill the jail. just a thought something to look at "

blue123 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:31 AM:

" what a great plan no more homeless on the streets.all the more reason to keep the jails full and the impound yards fat . These people have no place to go so take thee sheltor from them they will be in the streets all night crime rate goes up bad plan "

momto1 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:14 AM:

" So anyone with company staying in their motorhomes or campers would be fined? Even for a few days to a few weeks? "

concerned wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:37 AM:

" Oh sure make exceptions for special event groups how fair... I get so tired of the homeless being pushed around due to them not having the money to get a regular home/apt in this town. Why not instead of making it harder on them set aside a place that they can camp without being harrassed by the police about where they can and cant camp. "

Bah! Bah! wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:06 AM:

" Dignity Village Longview style.
Just one more scab on the face of Longview.
Next time you driving out West Side Hwy to lexington look across the river and check out all the Bumbs living on the banks of the Cowlitz. River Front Property! for Free? I'm there! I got a trailer I can pull right on up to my favorite fishing spot, dump my garbage and sewage right in the river. I could even plant a garden of used needles and burn old tires for heat.
I just love America, the land of the Free and the Home of the "I can do what ever in the hell I want" becuase, the Sheep ( er I mean People ) feel sorry for me. The laws don't apply to me. "

Mrs. Pellwerds wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:12 AM:

" So what do all you critics suggest then? What do you propose Chief Perez does when your friends and neighbors call the police on these urban campers? Maybe he should forward those calls to you. "

ratkins wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:37 AM:

" This is stupid! I remember as a child camping in the back yard in a tent. Is this new proposal a tactic for getting the homeless into jails or just a way to profit from campers? "

hawkster wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:47 AM:

" this ordinance is way too broad. but i live out of town right now and cant do anything about it. why dont you guys take your voices to the board meeting? trust me, leaving a comment on TDN isnt going to change anything. be heard. "

Roudyruss wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:50 AM:

" What I don't understand is how the city can make it illegal to camp on PRIVATE PROPERTY. I think a law is needed concerning the homeless camps but what the city has proposed is to extreme. "

kelsolady wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:52 AM:

" Isn't there a vacant piece of land that the city can designate for the homeless? That would help law enforcement keep an eye on them. Heck I'd donate an old tent to help out. I pray I'm never in their situation! "

My Kids' Mom wrote on Nov 6, 2008 9:09 AM:

" Mrs. Pellwerds I'm with you. You complainers wouldn't be complaining if you found that motorhome on YOUR property in your yard...yes, in your very yard. That's what happened to me. I have a property in Longview and that motorhome that parks in town by Washington Way that has the chimney, ya it parked in my back yard right where I keep the grass mowed and kept up. I had no idea what to do...I wasn't going to go knock on the door. I'm a woman who weighs 145 and always have a lil one riding around on my hip. That was no fun at all. So maybe you complainers should write up an invitation with your address and go put it on there windsheild. Sure there's holes in the plan and they will just move out to the county but heck...don't you have to start somewhere? Do you people really think the police really want more laws to enforce? Do you really think that they're going to bother people on there own property with there own family when your not dumping sewage all over and burning a stove in a 250 square ft space? Cool your jets. "

ACP wrote on Nov 6, 2008 9:22 AM:

" just like stray cats stop feeding them and they go somewhere else "

Thought wrote on Nov 6, 2008 9:54 AM:

" Why can't we as a community come up with a place for those less fortunate then us? Its a social issue and rather then condemn lets find a solution. People are homeless for a variety of reason some of their own choosing some not.Its called compassion and without it we are nothing!!! "

bluestar wrote on Nov 6, 2008 10:05 AM:

" There are so many different aspects to look at in this situation. This ordinance (which I do agree is a little to broad and vague) is just a temporary solution, a little band aid on a gaping wound. Making it harder for the homeless to camp, doesn't make less homeless. The problem is that we have homeless people all over. How about focusing on a way to give them shelter, help them get back on their feet? Granted, not all want to or can. Some are felons, drug users, sex offenders, mentally ill or disabled. How can we help them get back on their feet? How can we help the ones who don't want help? This answer to this is more difficult and complicated that just kicking them out of city limits. "

Regular Reader wrote on Nov 6, 2008 10:16 AM:

" Hmmmm-- If they were in your neighborhood, you wouldn't be ranting about regulating them, you'd be wondering what took so long for LPD to clean them out. As stated in the article, these folks come with sanitation, crime, and substance abuse problems--it's not a pretty picture. They frequently can't be accepted at the shelters because they're high or dangerously mentally ill. We have no social or legal obligation to let this happen in our public spaces. Clean them up, and clean up our community's image. "

DEH wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:08 AM:

" Aren't there already laws about trespassing on private property? Maybe I'm confused, but wouldn't it be better to just enforce the laws already in place rather than make new ones? "

momto1 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:54 AM:

" My kids mom, yes they are going after the people who are parked in their own backyard. My parents had the cops called because my little sister was in their motorhome one night, the city told them they were not allowed to have anyone live in the motorhome, which is behind a fence, they also told them they had to move it from behind the fence to the gravel pad that isn't fenced in. "

luke the drifter wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:24 PM:

" We must get rid of all these low-life scums who are infesting our local area. It is one of the top problems in the Longview Kelso area. These people should be rounded up and loaded onto trucks and shipped to labor camps. "

FanInTheStands wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:50 PM:

" It's not the county or the city's job to find a place for these people to live. At some point people need to take responsibility for their own being. I get so frustrated when the city proposes ordiniances that would clean up the streets and people get on here and whine about how unfair it is. The cops aren't going to go hunting for problems, lord knows they have enough to do. It's the broken down trailers and motor homes that they get repeat complaint calls on that they are going to take care of. Yes, we may be shifting the problem to somewhere else, but we'll always have losers in this world who only want handouts from the government. Just get the ramblers off of the streets of Longview. "

Gondolapete wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:13 PM:

" Tell ya what..those of you that think these are just people "down on their luck", that are city camping.. go up and visit with them ..tell me what your impression is afterwards... "

julietorell wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:29 PM:

" Gondolapete, I agree with you! Part of the misconception is that people are just "down on their luck". People who are in such state will generally contact agencies, etc. for help, they won't evade them. Places such as Community House, etc. have rules that some don't want to follow. I think a more accurate description would be felons on the run, or non-registered offenders. "

Aconserve wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:47 PM:

" Just be patient and give them some time, pretty soon they'll be reciving their checks from President Elect B. Hussein Obama. The redistribution of wealth will soon take place and they'll get theirs. Hahahaha. "

ItsKarma wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:53 PM:

" I remember the discussions about whether or not to build Community House.
There was a section of folks that were shouted down.
Their view was "if you build it they will come", looks like we should have listened.
Because, man o man are they ever here! "

Billy Hill wrote on Nov 6, 2008 2:02 PM:

" This is just the tip of the iceberg with Democrats in control of more and more of your life and it will continue to get worse and worse. My advice is just do as government does with the laws they refuse to enforce.......just ignore them and do what you want to do. Build higher structures of any kind (fences require permits so don't go that route) just pile up stuff so nosey government employees cant see into your back yard, cover up/disguise cords, hoses to motor homes and the like and just do what you want to do........government does! "

biasmedia wrote on Nov 6, 2008 2:05 PM:

" well if any of you went to the vet fair this year at the expo center you would see that there are many of them just down in there luck and even if most are there because of drug addiction you tow there home away and fine them you really think they are going to leave??? and i do live in the neighborhood they live in and most of them are quit and the one that are not the cops handle them ok this is just another example of longview city and pd trying to use a big city tactic in this small town aging and it never ends good "

Raven wrote on Nov 6, 2008 2:23 PM:

" Want to keep whinning? Then pick a side and stick with it. You people PB&M about everything. "Designate a spot for the homeless to go!" Then cough up some tax money so it can be maintained. "Everyone's mean to the homeless!" Some of them ARE the scum of the earth. SOME of them actually are nothing more than drug dealing, booze swilling theifs, pedophiles and rapists and that's WHY They're on the streets. Make up your mind people. Not all the homeless out there are sweet innocent victims of the economy. As it was said, many of these Campers are people I'd rather not see anywhere near my neighborhood. Get them out and keep them out. I personally don't want my kids wallowing in a gutter full of urine and feces and gods knows what else that's leaking out of some freaks trailer as he sits there cooking whatever drugs he's got the resources for. "

UW Squirrels wrote on Nov 6, 2008 2:40 PM:

" I'm all for keeping campers off of public property or off of another's private land. But telling someone that they can't pitch a tent in their own backyard, have a visiting relative spend a night in an RV, or sleep out under the stars with their kids on a warm summer night is going way too far. "

Raven wrote on Nov 6, 2008 2:58 PM:

" Nobody has said that we can't camp in our back yard. As I read it, WE CANNOT RENT.
It would NOT apply to kids sleeping in a backyard tent. As for relatives staying, why not get a parkig permit sticker? It'd solve problems, in the sense that if someone goes and gets a permit sticker to park (like one would need for a state park) they can occupy a area for a certain amount of time. That would cut down severely on homeless people and drug dealers from being the scourge of our neighborhoods. They're not gonna waste the money to buy a parking permit every 3 days. "

ltown wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:08 PM:

" What I gathered from reading this article is the people causing a problem with rv and tents will be cited. Your average person with a rv and tent on their own property would not. I hope thats the case anyways. "

ltown wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:17 PM:

" Public property or another's private land should be the only reason for a citation. What are police going to do search every rv in town on private property to make sure you aren't having anybody stay in there. What a waste of time. "

grrrowl wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:21 PM:

" Housing the chronically homeless people that are mentally ill and/or addicts actually saves a lot of money in Seattle http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/346602_wethousing09.html . I don't know if the same sort of thing would work around here, because we are in a much smaller area. But it's definitely an interesting (and good, I think) idea, and one that other cities are picking up on. "

Atrucker wrote on Nov 6, 2008 5:36 PM:

" Omg , what a bunch of crap slingers.
Have you ever been really broke ? Really hungry? No where to turn ? IF not . YOU HAVE NO WHERE TO SPEAK HERE !!
I have been in this position a few times , and you will not beleve what a person can and will do to survive. I hate the things I did , but it put food on the table . And a roof over my families head. And as I said if you have not walked a mile in my shoes , your blowing alot of smoke , from some thing you know little about .
What most of these people need is help,
Not kicked in the face and sent to jail for WHAT ??? Being homeless ??
Give me a F!@#$% brake. "

kitten wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:08 PM:

" I know a mentally ill drug user who wandered from town to town until they found Longview! That was about 15 years ago and this person has been a burden on this town ever since. Why wouldn't a homeless drug addict want to stay? They get free needles, free meals, free medical, free dental, free mental health, and housing in the form of at least 5 different flop houses that DO NOT worry about drug use. (I'm not talking about Community House). Our recycle center pays more for scrap than some others and apparently doesn't discourage these guys. Our police are scared of the schizophrenics and with good reason. If they are off their meds, they are dangerous people and the police probably don't want to deal with them. We have made Longview into a haven for these people. Why would they possibly want to go anywhere? "

kitten wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:13 PM:

" Atrucker-For future reference there are probably many churches out there that would have let your family come and eat if you needed to. Most people who have no safety net are in that shape for a reason. If I went homeless tomorrow there are several people in my life that would be there for me because they know I am not a hardcase but going through hardship. What was it about you that was different? "

allaboutschools wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:52 PM:

" I am sure this would be a good thing. Rest assured that the police will not be chasing good people off but will have a means of getting rid of the ones which people are complaining about. I dont want them in my neck of the woods either. "

AnotherLameOpinion wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:26 PM:

" So, if I'm understanding this correctly, if this passes it will be illegal to be homeless???? How low can we stoop. I realize that "looking at homeless people" isn't a pretty sight, but they are all over America. We can't just sweep them under the rug, we need to provide a place for them to be. Maybe one homeless camp that they are allowed to be in or something, and if caught camping anywhere else, then arrested, but to put in a general "no-homeless" ordinance is downright heartless. "

Roudyruss wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:27 PM:

" Hey Atrucker, I was homeless for 3 years. I lived under bridges in Seattle and in tents here in town behind Foster Farms. Most of the homeless, most not all, are junkies who dont want to quit using. I dont know about here but I can tell you first hand that ALL the people holding signs in Seattle are heroin users, I include myself. I cleaned up and guess what I have a home and a very good job. Have you ever lived out of a tent? I have earned the right to say that something needs to be done about the situation!!! "

buggsie wrote on Nov 6, 2008 9:03 PM:

" I have had many occasions to pass by who/what I think this original article is about. What I see are dirty, broken down rvs/cars that can barely run. I have witnessed men standing outside them peeing on the ground. I have witnessed bags and bags of garbage sitting just outside their rv rigs and the mountain grows every day. They are there for days and then one day, poof!, they are gone and all their disgusting garbage remains...as if we as the city are responsible to take care of their mess. Hard on luck? Broken? Hurting? No where to go? Maybe, but it doesn't give one single person the right to be disgusting pigs. I know many who have been in this place of hopelessness, but they had integrity to care for what they had, to respect the law and the property of others. Need help? You bet we are glad to help, but I have come to the point I am willing to only help those who are willing to help themselves...and prove it to me first. I am tired of giving handouts, free. No one deserves it just because they 'are'. Adam and Eve had to care for themselves. What makes us so special that we think others should just take care of us, that we don't have to make our own way? Uh-uh. Doesn't work. "

Yowza wrote on Nov 6, 2008 9:03 PM:

" If I want to have visitors stay in my motorhome for a week while visiting....that should be my business and not the City of Longview's. The enforcement officers should be looking for the drug dealers and meth heads and keep the hell of my property!! Next they'll be wanting to pass an additional tax to hire more officers to patrol our motorhomes! Just plain stupid!! "

viper wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:28 PM:

" First of all who would want to camp out in there back yard when these people are out thieving not a good idea especially kids with pedophiles on the loose scrounging
find some worthless property down by the tracks that know one wants put then there there has to be some old city property that ain't got no value laying around some where "

pangborn wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:33 PM:

" Leave them be.

Leave be until spring. "

Tortoise wrote on Nov 7, 2008 3:44 AM:

" I would say Longview has far more homeless people than most cities its size. So something clearly needs to be done about it. If it pushes them to a different town, then I am really okay with that. "

mad monkeys wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:02 AM:

" It is a sad day when all we can do is turning our noses up on those around us that are struggling. Not everyone who is homeless chooses to be. We have such a fast growing poverty rate in our own country and all our city officials and those who are having better luck are hypocrites. For those who shun our own fellow man for bad luck have you never had to wonder where the next meal would come from, did you never have to wonder on how to pay rent or mortgage. We often assume that they are drug users or prostitutes and condemn them for making us uncomfortable. What we need is a mission an outreach for these people. How sad all the work that Jane Adams had done now forgotten? It is more frightening to be in the homeless position then to be some snob who cares only about himself or herself and how the homeless make them feel or perhaps make the town look. In reality, it makes our town look selfish, and calloused. Therefore, those of you who mock, and cry fowl to those who are down on their luck pray you do not have to walk a mile in their shoes. Frankly, I do not think they will fit you. "

bucketball wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:55 AM:

" Well said mad monkeys. "

bucketball wrote on Nov 7, 2008 11:20 AM:

" Do you people really think there is homeless drug dealers? How many drug dealers are out there not making enough money for a house or apartment? Don't you people see that Chief Perez is using fear mongering to push his unjust agenda. It's one thing if they are actually commiting a crime. There is not even enough vacant houses and apts to accomidate them all even if they all were to have the means to pay for a place. Homelessness will always be a never ending battle but we can as a community all try to help out the less fortunate when possible and try to keep homelessness to a minimum. Another thing is some people just don't want the responsibility of paying bills and that is there prerogative. "

Roudyruss wrote on Nov 7, 2008 11:53 AM:

" To bucketball, your right they are not drug dealers but most are drug users. "

downtowner wrote on Nov 9, 2008 9:50 PM:

" I both work & own property downtown, and I'm sick of the vagrants camping in the public right of ways. A bunch of them had cardboard tents set up for a couple of weeks and the police were powerless to do anything. The vagrants do not have restrooms, so guess where the do their "business"? In the alley. They also intimidate our female employees. This is the real reason for the ordinance & it is a good one. "

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