Fibre plans rolling shutdown; memo details dates, restart schedule
Thursday, October 30, 2008 8:07 PM PDT
By Tony Lystra and Erik Olson
Printable version
E-mail this articleLongview Fibre announced Thursday morning that it will “curtail” production on its five paper machines on a rolling schedule over six weeks. The company is planning to restart the machines in December.
It’s unclear how many jobs are at stake for the company’s employees or what the stakes are for the community, and Fibre officials have been largely mum all day as they inform employees of the plan.
In a statement, Fibre said a continuing economic downturn and drops in orders for many of its products led to the move.
“The company’s current production schedule includes a mill-wide curtailment (effective November 21) with the #7 machine and associated support equipment being the only equipment in operation through the Thanksgiving period,” the statement said. “This will enable the company to keep the machine ‘warm’ to avoid the significant costs associated with a complete shutdown and cold re-start,” the release continued.
Fibre is planning to shut down the No. 5 machine first on Nov. 10 for about three weeks, according to a memo from Fibre President Frank McShane to employees. The No. 11 paper machine will be shut down from Nov. 17 through Nov. 28. The company will shut down the Nos. 10 and 12 machines from Nov. 21 through Dec. 1. The No. 7 machine will be the final shutdown, starting Dec. 8 and lasting about two weeks.
Fibre is grouping the shutdowns of machines No. 10, 11 and 12 to allow workers to use as much vacation time during the Thanksgiving holiday as possible.
The company also said the changes would cut production at the plant by more than 30,000 tons of paper through the end of this year.
McShane said in the statement: “We understand this curtailment will affect all aspects of our business and will create hardships for our employees, but it is a necessary action to protect the long-term health of our business.”
McShane also said the announcement was all the more difficult because of the coming holiday season.
“The reality is, there is no good time for this kind of message,” he said.
Cowlitz Economic Development Council President Ted Sprague said he learned of the shutdowns from McShane on Wednesday night. Sprague said McShane did not say how many workers would be out of work.
“I asked that question specifically and did not get a specific number,” Sprague said.
Sprague noted that a “curtailment” of production, as Fibre characterized it, “does not mean shutting down indefinitely.” But, he said, the ramifications of the announcement are fuzzy.
“It’s unclear to me,” he said.
Sprague said the CEDC immediately mobilized a team of Lower Columbia College staff, employment services and social services agencies to be ready to help unemployed workers.
It’s the same coalition, he said, that helped workers after the shutdown of Reynolds Metals Co. in 2001.
“We’ve got a good team together and they’ve been activated,” Sprague said, noting that the county eventually recovered from the failure of Reynolds. Last year, he said, the county’s unemployment rate was 5.8 percent, the lowest in the 28 years officials have been tracking the figure.
“My message is, we’ve been through this before,” Sprague said. “While this is a very difficult time for the company and the employees and their families, I’m very confident that we will bounce back and come back even stronger.”
At the EDC’s membership meeting Thursday, news of the planned shutdown was gradually trickling out among community leaders.
Longview City Manager Bob Gregory, the council’s chairman, said the community will survive, but the news was tough to swallow.
“The announcement today is a real kick in the belly,” Gregory said.
For more on this story see Friday’s edition of The Daily News.
Related documents:
Fibre press release
Memo from Fibre President Frank McShane to employees
Related article:
Fibre timeline: 2005-2008
Kelso, WA wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:55 AM:
" Boy, I'm glad we're getting 350 new jobs at Wal-Mart. (extreme sarcasm) "
scratch007 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:01 AM:
" Kelso- Get off your high-horse buddy- My whole family and I work at wal-mart. We might be poor but we are happy- We all get little debbie for desert and since we are uneducated we do not know that we should be unhappy! "
Taffeta wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:04 AM:
" Read it people! It's a curtailment. Reynolds Aluminum had a creep out for his own benefit. "
trucker30 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:05 AM:
" well there goes fibre. the closing of puget sound truck lines and now fibre good luck to all finding work. it looks like longview is going down in flames "
kelsolady wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:08 AM:
" And we can't even sell our homes to relocate! Elections hurry up! "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:13 AM:
" So are the McShanes of Fibre going to go through a rolling curtailment? "
Kalama Dude wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:19 AM:
" Curtailment equals SHUT DOWN 80 to 90% of the time. Ask those who know and will talk, that those who were laid off were the truly lucky ones given they had more time to plan. This plant will not be operating one year from now in any way, which of course is truly horrible. Good luck and God Speed. "
Billy Hill wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:21 AM:
" why do we always have to read the paper to find out what we could have found out from our employer first. I would say that was pretty chicken of you. "
Taffeta wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:26 AM:
" Kalama Dude~ Where are you getting your statistics? I was at Reynolds and it wasn't a year to shut the place down. Now as for the cable plant yes but that still doesn't make your statistics hold water? Without hope there is nothing. "
Taffeta wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:27 AM:
" Billy~ Everyone was told this morning at work. If you aren't at work well maybe that is why. "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:29 AM:
" And McShane says, "I can feel your pain. I just can't reach that far." Billy Hill: This has always been Fibre's way of dealing with employees. Treat them like mushrooms. In the dark and buried in bulls**t. "
Diesel wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:29 AM:
" Any job is a good job. If it helps a person/family to survive thats what counts. I hope that those people loosing their jobs at Fibre can find new employment asap.
This is just a start to business closures. I'd just as soon postpone the elections for a while. "
This is just a start to business closures. I'd just as soon postpone the elections for a while. "
Gabby wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:32 AM:
" don't assume the worse about Fibre...look at our economy it is slow right know, and most likely none of you sitting there expecting the worse either work for Fibre or have a loved one that does. For those think Wal-mart is a bad thing you are wrong...... Wal-Mart is a good thing to that area....look at the positive that hs and will come from of it. A drug invested area got cleaned out, (but moved I am sure to another location) they will add more jobs to our area, it will possibly bring in new business which will create more jobs. "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:34 AM:
" Taffeta: Yes without hope there is nothing. And Fibre's big wigs are hoping there is enough in the bank for them to collect their very lucrative severance(Golden Parachute) packages. "
Gabby wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:34 AM:
" To: Taffeta....you are right the employees were told at work this morning. "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:39 AM:
" Taffeta: So Billy was not at work this morning so he should not be informed of his job is now a part time job. Do you think that Frank McShane just got up this morning and as he was brushing his he teeth he thought to himself,"HMMM. What should I do this morning? I know lets shut most of the mill down." This has been in the planning stages for some time. They could have informed the employees. "
Rainier Res wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:46 AM:
" This sounds to me like a winter shut down. They have done this before, many mills do this during the slow winter periods. They say that they are keeping #7 warm for when they restart, so sounds temporary to me.
At least i hope its only a temporary shut down, loosing fibre would kill this area. Also remember that when your at the store ask for PAPER not plastic when checking out. "
At least i hope its only a temporary shut down, loosing fibre would kill this area. Also remember that when your at the store ask for PAPER not plastic when checking out. "
Kem Cho wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:50 AM:
" I wonder if LV Fiber is sending a sign that Obama will make it harder for businesses to operate with his promises to environmentalists, Green World people, big labor union leaders, raising taxes on businesses in the name of fighting for all the people making less than $200,000/year. LV Fiber is weak now and Obama policies will make it weaker. They probably want to pull the plug now than wait and keep on losing more money. Wow! What is next for our area? "
tired wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:54 AM:
" I found out yesterday by word of mouth and I was at work!It just would have been nice to hear it from management,and yes this has been in the works for a while.It is no different then when BCIC(another canadian company)bought the Reynolds cable plant.They said oh yeah we are going to run,we want to make it profitable,and then when the workers came back to work after a short shut down.Bam! You don't work here anymore.They (Brookfield)only wanted our timber.Thats FACT! "
randomopinion wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:58 AM:
" Rainier - requesting PAPER instead of plastic does not help the local economy. Fibre no longer has a bag plant (sold many years ago) which was located in Waltham, MA.
However, this is a sad day indeed. Hopefully this is just a temporary winter shutdown! When orders pick back up, so do the jobs! "
However, this is a sad day indeed. Hopefully this is just a temporary winter shutdown! When orders pick back up, so do the jobs! "
motleyquads wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:01 AM:
" At Wal-Mart you do not have an option for paper. Wonder why that is? Because they are supporting this community....? "
American First wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:01 AM:
" This is concerning, I'm worried about it because there are a lot of good people at Fibre. I wish them all the best. "
ltown wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:02 AM:
" Well it's great that walmart is comming but at this rate we won't even be able to afford to shop there. "
crowsfeet wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:06 AM:
" After Fibre there is only one of the big three left. Weyco and they have claimed to either make no or not enough profit, or return on investment for years, even the good years. Watch out gang. "
G444QM wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:08 AM:
" IT DIDN'T TAKE MUCH TO FIGURE THAT THEY WOULD SHUT DOWN PART OR ALL OF THE MILL. JUST LIKE REYNOLDS IT WILL BE SHUT DOWN AND SOLD OFF, JOBS LOST AND HARD TIMES FOR ALL EMPLOYEES. BROOKFIELD NEVER WANTED THE MILL, JUST THE TIMBER HOLDINGS. GOOD LUCK TO THE EMPLOYEES AND KEEP YOUR HEADS UP. "
FinancialCancer wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:13 AM:
" Now is the time to pray for us. My husband works there. It is our only source of income as we have a child who needs constant medical attention. What are we gonna do? We are a family of nine and I am afraid. If we lose our home can you move nine people into an apartment? Please pray for us. "
Rainier Res wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:14 AM:
" Uh, sorry to say but the longview location DID have a bag plant. And what are paper bags made out of? Fibre makes craft paper that can be used for paper bags.
Support of the paper industry in whole is the main point of me saying to ask for paper not plastic. "
Support of the paper industry in whole is the main point of me saying to ask for paper not plastic. "
ACP wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:22 AM:
" I'm sorry to hear the bad news but it comes as no surprise to me. I work at a Longview fibre box plant in another city and our paper has come from other companies since long before the buy out. They can't even beat the prices buying there own stock internally so they clearly can't compete in the market place and before the union busters get on there soap box its not the hourly employees that ran the company in to the ground it was the top heavy management and their over the top salaries. Many other union businesses thrive. Fair pay only hurts bottom line when the management lets it. Good luck on the restart but things will never be the same. This is why I left Longview years ago, the box plant will be sold but I will still be making boxes in the future I just hope the wages don't drop to much. "
klb65 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:23 AM:
" Obama will help the middle class in Longview with tax cuts; however, even he can't undo damage done by deregulation. Alan Greenspan admits he was mistaken about the inpact it would have on our economy and we are just now feeling the ripple. I recall that Fibre has shut down many times during lean periods and this time seems to be similar to those. Also, why spread so much fear? It doesn't help anything and the majority of us are feeling the loss of equity, retirement money, ect, regardless of where we work or live. Beating up Lv Fibre doesn't help encourage those who make their living there and it also doesn't help to spread fear that Obama will only make things worse. It's change we need and he is offering it; regardless of your party, as President, he will bring change and many of them very good ones. Especially the one that takes away the tax breaks for corporations that move their business overseas to save money. That is an incentive we can no longer afford. Also, he plans to award with tax credits, businesses that hire new employees so that smaller business can enjoy a higher profit margin and in return, help employ more people. It makes so much sense and could really help areas like Lv. Also, he plans to implement an exit strategy from Iraq to stop $10B per month from going overseas. "
rocko wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:26 AM:
" Give it up. Shut it down. Its a not worth saving. The pres. of fibre is a crook. we have all been ripped off. "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:27 AM:
" Fibre has, if I remember correctly, a severance package for employees in the event of a complete mill closure in their contract based upon seniority. By doing partial lay offs and "mill curtailments" they avoid the employee receiving this this severance package. This saves a huge amount of money for Fibre. Of course McShane will get his pay out regardless if the mill is closed. "
Chris360 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:28 AM:
" Tired... Get the facts. Brookfeild has alwayus been the majority stock holder of Fibre, they were a temporary solution to its problems. Blame the Economy... There is alot more then what meets the eye. Steelscape is slower then normal, the lumber indusrty is slowing down. face it poeple it's bad times right now. I have been on again off again for 8 months. Everytime I am back to work it slows for layoffs. I am out of UI, with my wife the breadwinner at the moment.
Heres the best...... I was driving Indy way this morniong and seen the Teemsters on strike (again) Like jobs are not hard enough to fing.. Then you see a Strike!!!! (had to vent Sorry) "
Heres the best...... I was driving Indy way this morniong and seen the Teemsters on strike (again) Like jobs are not hard enough to fing.. Then you see a Strike!!!! (had to vent Sorry) "
stargoddess wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:31 AM:
" "the announcement coming heading into the holiday season made it even more difficult. The reality is, there is no good time for this kind of message.
Granted, Frank McShane is right, there IS no good time for this kind of message, but couldn't they wait until after the holidays??? Just a mere 2 months wait?? So at least the Fibre employees and their families could have a decent holiday season? I do not and will not EVER understand why big companies wait until the holiday season to announce these kind of things. "
Granted, Frank McShane is right, there IS no good time for this kind of message, but couldn't they wait until after the holidays??? Just a mere 2 months wait?? So at least the Fibre employees and their families could have a decent holiday season? I do not and will not EVER understand why big companies wait until the holiday season to announce these kind of things. "
CowlitzSounding wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:31 AM:
" Tough blow for our community. I feel for the families. "
Gabby wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:32 AM:
" To: motleyquads.....I shop Wal-Mart and I get paper bags everytime I am there....because I request them. "
Lucky7 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:40 AM:
" Terrible news during very troubleing times! Good luck to all of the affected employees and their families! Scratch007- Sounds like you're living life right. I've seen many a rich family living very unhappily always looking for greener grass and taking what they have for granted. In these difficult economic times I believe many americans are going to be forced to live at lower standards than they're used to and for some it's going to be very, very difficult. Our american standard of living is going down, no question about it! This is the very reason so many people believe the presidential election 5 days from today will be the most important election of our lifetime!!! Obama 08!!! "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:51 AM:
" Lucky7: Maybe Obama can spread the wealth of McShane and his cronies to the employees. "
Kalama Dude wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:53 AM:
" Taffeta, irony of all ironies, I too worked at Reynolds, so I know those details pretty well. As you can tell most here understand that is the final phase of the end of Fibre so to speak. Anyone still working there of any inport is just dealing with today and won't talk probably, but find managers who left in the last year and you can find out pretty much anything you want to know. Regardless, drinking the happy koolaid won't help either, so better to plan for the worst and pray for something else. Good luck. "
CRfisherman wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:05 AM:
" I do feel bad for the workers, but I can honestly say that it doesn't suprise me the company is cutting back. I have worked numerous times for Fibre as a construction contractor, and the wasted time and money that I saw was incredible. 5 guys standing around, watching one guy work. A lot of wasted productivity. I feel for the families involved though. I have a lot of good friends that work for Fibre. Good luck all involved. "
mwallin wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:11 AM:
" Why doesn not the State step in and make some large orders of Fibre's products so as to keep the mill running? "
mikadax wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:12 AM:
" well look at the bright side,,,at least gas is cheaper so everyone who needs to commute for a new job can afford to! "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:18 AM:
" CRfisherman: Nice, insinuate that the pending demise of Fibre is the responsibility of the employees. The employees of Fibre are in general hard working and proud people. Unfortunately it has had historically top heavy poor management. That is why if you are familiar with Fibre you realize that most of the production records of the mill are set on weekends when management is not on the mill site. "
MARV19 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:27 AM:
" Fibre does have a bag plant (as of a few months ago) but ship them all to Maryland where they're stamped and sent back... Most of the paper bags around here are from Weyerhaeuser, though. My thoughts go out to everyone still at Fibre... I've got family there and times are gonna get tough... best wishes to everyone there. "
rest of the story wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:29 AM:
" mwallin....Seriously!!?? Rely on the government for your prosperity, and you will never prosper!! "
Whatmeworry wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:31 AM:
" Stargoddess: I retired from Fibre a couple of years ago after 40+ years. I have seen and survived quite a few of the economic turndowns the area is experiencing. I have many friends that still work there and from what I am hearing, the mill only has an order backlog measured in hours...as in 36 to 48 hours of run time before they have no orders to run. To suggest they run another 2 months without orders to fill is just not possible. "
TwentySomething wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:34 AM:
" Interesting. "There is no good time for this kind of message..." yet these messages seem, more often than not, to come just before the holidays. Are businesses really so shortsighted than they never see these winter "downturns" until November/December? "
Taffeta wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:48 AM:
" Asking for paper doesn't actually help Longview Fibre as most local places don't buy from Fibre. Having our sole income from Fibre is frightening yet those like us should have prepared for the worst long ago. The economy will get better. Hopefully people will understand what losing another large company will do to Longview. "
justagirl wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:48 AM:
" FYI - even though the paper bags you get from the grocery stores are stamped "International Paper" - the paper is from LV Fibre. We supply the paper, they make the bags, so yes, asking for paper over plastic does indeed help us here in Longview.
Very somber here today. :( "
Very somber here today. :( "
CRfisherman wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:52 AM:
" Bert: Maybe you should adjust your glasses and think about how too many employees affect businesses. It's called overhead....when it costs more to run the business than what you bring in you have two options: Cut costs by reducing payroll or shut down. Which would you rather see at Fibre??? Reduced payroll or a complete shutdown? Try thinking before you speak next time....I promise it won't hurt too bad. "
pacnwmom wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:00 PM:
" The paper bags that are found locally are now IP (International Paper) formally Weyerhauser. The paper used to make these bags is bought from Fibre! Yes this business recognizes the seasonal shifts in business, but with Wall Streets recent fiasco, credit limitations have really hurt business, as well as the general economy. So that coupled with the regular seasonal downshift this time of year doesn't leave much choice does it. You can't just keep plugging away till after the holidays if there are no orders coming in. While I understand the harships of being out of work, especially during the winter. People need to understand that the Holidays aren't supposed to be about money. I hope to see that with the economy as such people will pay more attention to what the holidays are truly supposed to be. (oh and just before I get blasted, I too work at Fibre). We've all known this was coming, fortunately I planned ahead. "
debtfreemama wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:01 PM:
" It is no surprise that people will loose their jobs. All of us should have our emergency funds saved up so we can live 3-6 months without a job. "
American First wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:10 PM:
" Stargoddess, McShane did the right thing by not waiting until Christmas, I would prefer to know before I spent money or ran my credit cards up for Christmas gifts. To wait until after the holidays would have been a disservice to Fibre employees.
KLB65, Obama will do NOTHING to help this country or the people at Fibre, in fact will hurt us all. Barack Hussein Obama is a socialist, not a savior as you think, nothing good ever comes from socialists. A government big enough to give you everything you need, is strong enough to take everything you own. This is a quote from Thomas Jefferson, check your history and do your homework.
I will do all I can to help my many friends at fibre, because you can't count on the government to take care of you, to do so is, well ignorant.... "
KLB65, Obama will do NOTHING to help this country or the people at Fibre, in fact will hurt us all. Barack Hussein Obama is a socialist, not a savior as you think, nothing good ever comes from socialists. A government big enough to give you everything you need, is strong enough to take everything you own. This is a quote from Thomas Jefferson, check your history and do your homework.
I will do all I can to help my many friends at fibre, because you can't count on the government to take care of you, to do so is, well ignorant.... "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:32 PM:
" CRfisherman:You are correct. Payroll is a a major expense for any business. However, anyone who is familiar with Fibre knows, Fibre has been cutting hourly employees jobs for years now. Without comparable cuts in salary staff. In fact, actually at times increasing salary staff. At one point there was a ration of one salaried person for every 3-4 hourly employee. The decision of staffing with this ration is solely at the company's discretion.So when you say," the wasted time and money that I saw was incredible. 5 guys standing around, watching one guy work.", what you more then likely witnessed was 5 supervisors making sure the hourly employee was working. Yet when cost have to be cut they get rid of the person who is actually being productive. So the next time you want to say something look at and try to understand the complete picture. It won't hurt. I promise "
tigersmom wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:33 PM:
" As a Longview native..and the ex-wife of an ex-Reynolds Metals worker..I can feel for the Fibre folks.
My dad worked for Fibre from 1958 to 1996 and we lived through layoffs and 1 strike.
It is majorly hard to deal with, but hang in there.. and count your blessings. "
My dad worked for Fibre from 1958 to 1996 and we lived through layoffs and 1 strike.
It is majorly hard to deal with, but hang in there.. and count your blessings. "
WorkingClass wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:39 PM:
" To American First: A few things you should give up if you want smaller government: National Defense, Interstate Freeways, Coast Guard, Border Patrol, SEC, FDIC, USDA inspection, FDA Drug Testing and Evaluation, Satellite Communication, Basic Research and Development the list goes on. Oh and turn off the computer and disconnect it from the Internet, it was all developed with assistance from the Dept of Defense. I have come to realize that the real free loaders are the wealthy elite in this country. They wish to manipulate the laws to avoid paying any taxes while utilizing our infrastructure (roads, bridges, ports etc) while exporting jobs overseas. Corporatism is destroying this country. I am surprised that an attempt has not been made yet to call a constitutional convention so that the bill of rights can be rescinded and absolute power given over to the multinationals and banking interests. Never mind, we already wrote that 700 billion dollar check. "
tired wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:42 PM:
" I love how the sensors work on this blog.I write a retort to Chris 360 about Brookfield always being the majority stockholder(when in reality it was the Wallenbergs and Wertheimers) and because I uesed the word retarded it was sensored.Give me a break when someone who obviuosly has no clue tells you to get the facts strait and you respond let it be shown.Omit foul words but at least give the people their say.By the way Chris 360 look up last year TDN June 2007 headline "Brookfield purchases Longview Fibre Co."They were at the head of a list of several places that wanted to buy us and all for the same reason,the timber lands.So do some research since you are UI you have some time on your hands use it wisely and get your facts strait! "
fraidykatt wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:44 PM:
" Pacnwmom, I'm not sure where you get your info but I work at a plant that supplies IP Springfield with their cores and I can tell without a doubt they make their own paper. "
Taffeta wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:56 PM:
" Asking for paper doesn't actually help Longview Fibre as most local places don't buy from Fibre. Having our sole income from Fibre is frightening yet those like us should have prepared for the worst long ago. The economy will get better. Hopefully people will understand what losing another large company will do to Longview. "
American First wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:56 PM:
" bert, You need to look at the whole picture, or get a clue, your stated ratio of supervisor to worker is totally false. Either your perception is messed up, or your just being less then truthful, in either case you clearly have no idea of what you are talking about. Wow.. "
pacnwmom wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:57 PM:
" I get my info from the direct order sheets. weyerhauser is one of our biggest customers "
Beau Khaki wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:18 PM:
" Wow. Nice to find out on my days off! Although not surprising with the economy. We used to have shutdowns every year and it has been a while. Reminds me of the time we went to 10-4 shutdowns about 10 years ago. Hopefully the orders can recover. But so far every time Nebel and McShane tell us one thing it gets ten times worse the next week. We always hear we need to do better despite very worn out machines and equipment, kind of hard to do when you have daily breakdowns. Good luck to everyone that will be affected. "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:20 PM:
" American First: I will try to break this down to the point that even you can understand. I worked at Fibre up until several years ago. When the company started on it's campaign to reduce the number of hourly employees, the biggest topic of discussion amongst hourly employees was the fact that the company was downsizing the hourly working force without the equivalent reduction of salary personal. In fact with NO reduction of salary staff. Resulting in more salary staff per hourly people. Just out of curiosity I calculated the ratio of salaried employees to hourly employees. When you take into consideration the line supervisors, safety supervisors, department superintendents and about 20% to 30% of supervisors on "special projects" you come up with the figure I stated. I was shocked with this ratio but it is, or was at the time, an accurate figure. "
pearl wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:28 PM:
" well that puts a damper on the holidays and makes it a lot harder for those of us already looking for work. man what a life. "
mrsw wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:42 PM:
" Several years ago 2 machines were 'curtailed', never to start up again and were eventually decommissioned. Last winter 2 more machines met the same fate. Now here we are with more going to same route. The machines are old, they break down all the time and are very expensive to repair. I'm willing to bet that in the end they only keep #10,11 & 12 (if that many) going on 'centralize' the production in the mill. Saves electricity, man power costs etc to have all the work occuring in one area instead of scattered all over the place. I hate to say it but the shut down for good clock is a ticking.... "
Diesel wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:53 PM:
" re:lucky7 - - the truth is that if Obama is elected he will be the nail in the coffin that Clinton built when he promised not to sign nafta but did so anyway. Small business will be destroyed by the spread the wealth taxes that Obama is proposing. "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:54 PM:
" Beau Khaki: The difference between then and now is that there was a commitment to the community from local ownership. What stake or commitment does Brookfield have? "
Go Chinooks!!! wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:57 PM:
" Many companies are seeing the writing on the wall with Obama as President and his cronies Peloser and Reid in charge. It will cost them more to operate and those companies just making it now are going to quit and cut their losses beforeObama takes more of their money to give it to those who don't work. Theres an old saying "Be careful what you ask for, you might get it." "
Whatmeworry wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:02 PM:
" American First:bert is absolutely correct. When I retired two years ago, there were four formen on each shift in the pulp mill. A recovery forman, a pulping forman, a wood room forman and a tour forman. Altogether they were supervising a grand total of 22 hourly workers. You do the math. "
CRfisherman wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:06 PM:
" Bert: You still aren't seeing the picture. You're right they have been laying off people for a while now. And I can also tell you that it wasn't 5 supervisors watching one guy work. Your logic is a little backwards and your positions have no merit or evidence. Blab somewhere else. "
just_my_opinion wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:13 PM:
" i'm ready to move from here.... i've known people laid off from LV fibre and are now better off for it because they went through reschooling, but it was a long hard couple years for them and their family... i feel for them all "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:28 PM:
" CRfisherman: Obviously you were not, nor have you ever been, an employee of Fibre. So it is like looking into the window of a candy store and saying how good the candy taste. The point is that Fibre's logic was backward. Less employees to supervise so have more supervisors. Fibre's attempt to streamline things was to hire a layer of salaried personal, Job Planners. So if you can not accept the truth from first hand knowledge move on. "
klb65 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:33 PM:
" To America First...as long as we are going for quotes, here's one from our intelligent president, George W. Bush, "I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe - I believe what I believe is right."..such a wise man and a great leader! Let us not waste our vote on an intelligent, articulate American born, Christian, half-white U.S. Citizen because YOU call him a socialist! Why don't you tell the "real" truth about why you don't want to vote for Obama...it is very clear to me in your message! John McCain may be a fine man but he wants to continue with this war, and the last thing we need right now is to continue to pour our tax dollars in a war based on false pretenses. By the way, how can anyone come out a winner in this war? How rediculous to think there could possibly be a winner! And by the way, McCain graduated near the bottom of his class! If you're into the continuation of the same kind of intelligent, thoughtful leadership, we've enjoyed under the Bush presidency, then rest assured that a McCain/Palin win should make you very comfortable...no intelligence needed. "
Beau Khaki wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:35 PM:
" Bert, the only thing they care about is profit, as it should be. But your equipment has to be able to run in order to make that profit. I have seen no commitment from Brookfield to improve reliability. That is whats troubling to me. In fact they have reduced shift mechanics, they are the ones who keep us running when everyone is at home sleeping or during weekends. I agree with mrsw that #10,11 and #12 will probably be the only ones running in the near future. "
tired wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:36 PM:
" I am still amazed as to how many people have no first hand knowledge about the mill,ie. work there.Yet seem to know everything that goes on here,I know it must be what they read about in here on the blogs.There is a wealth of information on this site,mostly from people who don't know anything but a lot of knowledge anyway. "
Lucky7 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:38 PM:
" Someday, hopefully soon.... Made In The USA will be important to Main Street USA again! I realize there are some things that are next to impossible to find with a US label but I know when I have the choice I'll pay extra for a US made product. "
tired wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:41 PM:
" I agree with bert.I work there and am amazed at the comments posted on here by people who have no clue..... "
Lucky7 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:55 PM:
" Diesel - There is one thing I can guarantee no matter who wins the election 5 days from now. The top 1%... The richest of the rich in our country... Will still be rich! The Bush/Cheney economy has immensely helped set up the ultra wealthy for life! How many jobs were created under Bill Clinton? How many were lost under George W. Bush? Who was better for the economy? Go back 79 years in US history... How many jobs were lost under President Herbert Hoover (Republican)? How many gained under FDR (Democrat)? I'll give you a clue... The 3,300,000 jobs lost under The Goerge W. Bush Presidency is the worst job loss of any president since Herbert Hoover! I've already voted for Obama, but convince the undecided voter how McCain's economic plan would differ from Bush? You can't because his plan is the same, right down to admiting he wants to make the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy permanent. It's just ludicrous to think McCain would offer any improvement for middle class america! Vote for Hope! Vote for Change! Vote for Barack Obama 08!!! "
Amazed By Ignorance wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:12 PM:
" So, this is how ghost towns get their start. Interesting. "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:13 PM:
" Beau Khaki: Yes profit is the purpose of any business. But there are times when people must be either taken into the equation or put ahead of profits. I remember about 8 or 10 years ago there was a clothing factory that burned to the ground in New England. It would have been a perfect opportunity for the factory to move their operations out of the country like most other clothing factories. Instead they not only choose to rebuild, they also choose to continue to pay the employees and provide benefits during the rebuilding process. I am sure they now have the most loyal and dedicated employees of anywhere in the United States. So in the long run they will recoup more then the cost of rebuilding the factory through the dedication of their employees to make them profitable. What do you think would happen if Fibre had a catastrophic incident? "
UW Squirrels wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:22 PM:
" My dad works at Fibre, and I interned with them last summer and was planning on going back over Christmas break. This sucks. My dad is 59, and it would be hard for him to find another job at that age. I guess we'll have to see what happens, best of luck to everyone. "
American First wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:31 PM:
" bert I worked at Fibre too, at no time when I was there did the salary to hourly ratio look like that. The company would have failed quickly if that were the case. There may have been a department that had a lop sided ratio, but the whole mill was not. Your incorrect, if that bothers you it's your problem. "
Beau Khaki wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:32 PM:
" Bert, I agree. There should be a balance somewhere. Unfortunately with Brookfield and alot of big corp.the maximum and quick profit is the bane and end to the community friendly business. Its all about the shareholder and the expected return. Good times, huh? "
Roudyruss wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:53 PM:
" To anyone NOW working at Fibre, whats the chance that they not start up the machines after they shut them down? "
American First wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:06 PM:
" klb65 - You got off on a tangent. I'm deeply concerned for my friends at Fibre and I guess I don't like it turned into Obama the savior propaganda. I hope you weren't offended if so it wasn't my intent, how ever Mr. Obama wont help them and to believe he is the answer is a colossal error. I never suggested Bush was wise, but you did. I did tell you the real truth why I wont vote for Barack Husein Obama, its because he is a socialist. It should have been very clear to you in my message why I wont vote for him, it's because I wont vote for a socialist. I've stated it bluntly three times now, what more could I do to clear it up for you? I never said I'm voting for McCain, your making assumptions based on Mr. Obama being a socialist. So whats your point? Oh and proof of Mr. Obama being American born is tied up in the courts. And he's not a christian. Again, history and homework, they are both incredibly educational as well as enlightening. Good luck with getting informed, I really mean that. "
bert wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:07 PM:
" American First: No that does not bother me. But if you sat down and thought about it I am sure you will realize how lopsided the ratio was/is of salary to hourly is at Fibre. Not just line foreman but superintendents, assistant superintendents, safety supervisors, supervisors that are on projects, etc. True every department may not have been as top heavy as mine was but in general there is a lot of fat on the supervisor side of the table. "
DUH wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:24 PM:
" Amazing! Some of you can see your way through to blame this on a man that isn't even President yet. This has NOTHING to do with Obama and what he's going to do as president. Don't you just love how people like to place blame? I am sorry to all the workers and their families that this affects. "
pacnwmom wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:48 PM:
" Bert-you state you worked at Fibre several years ago. A lot has change in the last few years and the ratio is no longer where you state it is. The supervisors that do remain are not the money mongers, it's the higher ups in the executive office. They let go quite a few of the execs a while back, only to hire new ones plus some. Tour Foremans, Safety Supervisors, Maintence Foremen, there are barely any left! The supervisors that are left are running around like a chicken with their head cut off trying to cover so many departments "
justareader wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:23 PM:
" Stop the hysteria and back the emotions down! The world has not ended yet. I have lost two very good jobs and found others when needed. My current job has had my wages cut by one third and then again by about 20 percent. I drive an older car (paid cash), don't use the credit card (singular) unless I know that my income projections show I can pay it off before interest kicks in. I go to the used book store instead of buying new all the time. I only go to the grocery store and wally world once a week instead of when I feel like it. Let's put it this way, go for the "needs" and forget the "wants" for awhile. I LOVE Pizza Hut pizza but will settle for the $5.00 special at Safeway when it can be had. Yes people, it's time to back off spending and start budgeting. My thoughts and prayers are with all that will be laid off and I have great hopes that the management is not lying and that you will have your jobs back before too long. "
ex Longview Resident wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:57 PM:
" This is the saddest thing!! My father works there and had to take a $5 an hour pay cut adding up to about $1500 about a month. My aunt is in jeopardy of losing her job, she is the breadwinner in her family with 2 young children. I have another aunt that works there. My maternal grandmother and grandfather. As well as my paternal grandfather all retired from there. I can't believe this. I mean I knew it was coming but dang! I didn't assume this quick! Seriously you guys all need to quit blaming people. It was bound to happen and seems that it has been in the works for a long time. So we all just have to deal. So instead of sitting here and bickering over something you can't control why don't you go out and do something to help these people? Just a suggestion. Longview is going to be a ghost town. Pretty Scary! These layoffs are going to hurt every business in the community. Because Fibre employs so many people it will cause a domino effect on all other businesses. "
S.D.E. wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:49 PM:
" ACP IS RIGHT,JUST WALK THROUGH THE LONGVIEW BOX PLANT AND LOOK AT THE ROLE TAGS THEY READ INTERNATIONAL PAPER,BOISE Cascade and weyerhauser,how can we buy it cheeper than we can make lfppi? "
kitten wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:48 PM:
" First of all, anyone who is still saying, "I can't wait until after the election" is just plain in LALA-LAND! It is not going to make any difference. Watch the Frontline special about Walmart and it is easy to see where this economic ruin all started. How can any American company (and I use those words lightly) justify what Walmart did? Now that most of our production companies have been forced to open factories in other countries, we are done. Obviously it is all going to spiral into a bigger and bigger whirlpool of loss of jobs, loss of revenue, loss of homes, loss of tax base as each company leaves. One thing begets another. How soon before all social services are affected? In the end, all we will have left is Walmart! Happy Shopping you clueless mouthbreathers.
Oh yeah, and don't even get me started on China's role in all of this! "
Oh yeah, and don't even get me started on China's role in all of this! "
the_fitter wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:50 PM:
" To CR fisherman: Part of the problem is contrators getting jobs from our planners and them paying an outrageous price, like a $70,000 airline under 10 machine or $40,000 to change over 4 dryer heads.Thats highway robbery in anyones book. We also have all our free stock wiped out by the contractors on their way out of the mill, along with half our oxy and acetylene bottles and god knows whatelse. There historically has been huge abuse by the contractors. Paying overinflated prices to contractors is not what will kill this mill but it surely contributed .But hey you probably work for JHK and think all fibre employees are lazy. P.S. Anyone check T.H.'s bank account lately? "
toledoone wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:21 PM:
" Justareader, I chuckled when I read what you had to say. We were at the mall the other day, and the nail shops, there are two I believe in the mall, were both very busy. I think that a set a of nails is about $40, dont really know, I would never pay anyone to do my nails. However, they were both busy. I also noticed that the poor woman on the Obama infomercial last night had a nice set of nails and I chuckled too when she said that she had to decide on the gallon or half gallon of milk for her family. Nice nails. I live in a somewhat remote area on a private road and work many days from home. My neighbor on the north, I seem to have noticed leaves and comes back to their home at least fifteen times a day. We call them forth and back. Now, I know some folks just have a lot of things to get done, but there are weeks that we dont leave the house for days on end. I have a hard time understanding folks today. I too have lost a job at a box plant, not any in this area but somehow, Im still around. I hope that all of you affected by this will get through it and keep working towards a better tomorrow. "
American First wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:26 PM:
" bert, I was at Fibre a long time. Let me give an example of a big part of the problem that you may not want to hear. I watched as it took two millwrights, two pipe-fitters, and two electricians four days to change an existing refrigerated water emitting fixture. I could have done the whole job myself in six hours. Now is this mismanagement by supervision? Absolutely! It's also unethical work practices by the workers and a clear sign that there are too many workers for the work that needs done. My point is this can't possibly be pinned completely on McShane, the Wollenbergs, or the executive office, or for that matter Brookfield. Had workers been being productive, proactive, or taken responsibility for their own performance, even five years ago, Fibre would have been able to fend off the buy out to begin with. But the entitlement attitude by a considerable number of employees is just as much to blame for all this as McShane and the execs. Now clearly not everybody was like this, but there was obviously enough. I was told the Box Plant Manager that the union ran off a few years ago (for good reason) said Fibre is NOT a charity. He was right, sounds like the only good thing he said his whole time at Fibre. Sadly, everybody is suffering for it now.. It sickens me. "
tatman wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:54 PM:
" i am a worker at fibre, my thoughts will be with all affected, maybe the union should dole out the strike fund because it will not be needed. it will at least give some a good holiday under the circumstances. AS FOR MANAGEMENT, WHEN YOU ARE TELLING US WHAT IS GOING ON, DONT GIVE ME THE ITS A STRUGGLE FOR ALL OF US, YOUR PAYCHECK IS STILL COMING IN WHILE LAID OFF WORKERS ARE TRYING TO LIVE ON UNEMPLOYMENT, AND THE UNCERTAIN ARE WONDERING WHEN THERE NUMBER IS UP. MAYBE YOU SHOULD ALL INVITE LAID OFF EMPLOYEES OVER FOR THE HOLIDAY DINNERS.THAT WOULD CERTAINLY SHOW SOME CLASS. "
UW Squirrels wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:06 PM:
" They fired a good number of salaried employees today as well. "
batman wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:31 PM:
" Bert,
You worked there along tima ago, Many things have changed that you are not there to see in person. You cannot go on here and spill false truths. If you don't know whats going on then keep your opinions to your self. First thing they did today was to relieve salary persons from their jobs, most of the hourly workers know there will be layoffs and such but unlike to OLD DAYS when you worked there, the salary were cut first. By the way, why don't you work there anymore? "
You worked there along tima ago, Many things have changed that you are not there to see in person. You cannot go on here and spill false truths. If you don't know whats going on then keep your opinions to your self. First thing they did today was to relieve salary persons from their jobs, most of the hourly workers know there will be layoffs and such but unlike to OLD DAYS when you worked there, the salary were cut first. By the way, why don't you work there anymore? "
mclovin it wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:50 PM:
" Having grown up in Longview and having relatives who work at LV Fibre I feel bad for the people out of work but I kind of knew something like this was going to happen at some point. I am a Supervisor at a receiving warehouse that has purchased our corrugated stock from LV Fibre for years and recently have had to go else were to purchase our boxes because of the poor quality and lack of response about it from their higher ups. Most of our items come from the Seattle plant so it's not a dig on the Longview plant workers in general. In the last two years the quality of product we received has gone down hill to the point that we no longer trust LV Fibre and feel that they don't really care about the quality of the product they sell. As I speak now I have a crew going through the last of our Longview stock piece by piece to make sure there are not problems with the boxes before we send it to our production facility costing us a lot of money in overtime. I have spoken to several other companies that have gone else were and are feed up with the managements lack of concern about this. We switched to Weyerhaeuser and not had a single problem from them and they appreciate our business. "
klb65 wrote on Oct 31, 2008 10:16 AM:
" Dear American First...my tangent as you refer to it was very tongue in cheek and I'm sorry that you didn't recognize it as just that. Senator Obama was and is a Christian and an American Citizen, just like you and me. He is not, I repeat not, a Socialist but the Republicans are really enjoying spreading that one about. It is time that a President stand up to the wealthy who pay far fewer taxes than most of us because of their tax breaks and take the burden off the back of the average citizen. It is criminal the way corporate America has handed out Golden Parachutes to executives while stealing from retirees pension plans. Someone has to take a stand and if our next President doesn't do so, then who the heck, will? McCain has no intention of repealing any of the tax breaks for the wealthy and Senator Obama's plan, spreads out the burden and allowes those of us with middle and lower incomes to have some actual tax relief. I don't need a stimulus check, I just need to pay less in taxes every payday and not owe anything in April. Call that socialism if you want; but I see it as the way to help the average American. There is no easy way out of this mess but the Republicans have had their chance at the helm and have failed miserably. Go educate yourself! "
bert wrote on Oct 31, 2008 12:39 PM:
" Batman: I tried to answer your question as to why I no longer work for Fibre but was informed by The Daily News that my response is outside of the guidelines for posting. Sorry. "
Lucky7 wrote on Oct 31, 2008 3:32 PM:
" Kitten - You're an intelligent person! You make some very valid points. Things will not start turning for probably 6-18 months after Obama (probably) or McCain take office at best. I tend to like our chances with Obama myself. One point on Chinese trade. A business associate of mine came up with a new product idea we partnered on it, and we tried to find a US manufacturer to produce it. After 1-1/2 years we gave up on the US manufacturers and I pointed him to a Chinese fellow I had met through work at a trade show. My associate visited China, They laid out the red carpet for him, and now we import (3) 40 foot cargo containers of his product at a time and were making pretty good money on his product, not getting rich but making a profit. What we found is that US manufacturers didn't want to talk you unless you want to buy a whole ship load. They claim the costs to tool up for one small product are too great and they lose money. The chinese on the other hand will bend over backwards to take care of you and their price even with shipping charges is far less than US manufacturers. OK I prefer to buy US made products but there are cases where you simply can't find the product you're looking for with a US label. "
S.D.E. wrote on Nov 1, 2008 7:32 PM:
" seems to me they should be spending more money on maintenance and upgrading the machines to make them more efficient so the workers can make a quality product for or valued cutomer instead of landscaping the mill entrance "
mom of 2 wrote on Nov 12, 2008 3:34 PM:
" Every time I take a load into Fibre I see 3 people watching as 1 person does the work. Chip trucks sitting around. Not to mention some workers sleeping instead of working. And everyone says its top heavy management. It looks and sounds like there's room for cuts all across the board in personel and management. "
loudly wrote on Nov 18, 2008 2:20 AM:
" Dont' roll out the tissue paper for yourselves yet (though it probably wouldn't come from fibre anyway)! Get yourselves back into school!!! There is a shortage of nurses (making $950 per shift! No Kidding!!!!)) There are shortages of dental hygenists', shortages of Cops! Shortages of Military personnel (if you have a degree or life experience, they want officers!!! bingo!). Don't think the mill is your dead end! It's just a beginning.....Good Luck to you all there are openings as well as training op's for all of you. You can do it! "
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