More Fibre layoffs coming next week
Tuesday, October 21, 2008 12:03 AM PDT
By The Erik Olson
Printable version
E-mail this articleLongview Fibre Paper and Packaging is shutting down its No. 9 paper machine Tuesday and laying off about 90 hourly employees by next week, the company said Monday. These announced layoffs are in addition to the company’s plan to lay off 300 salaried and union employees by 2010, which was announced in the fall of 2007.
“This is unexpected,” said Roger Fisher, president of Association of Western Pulp and Paper Workers Local 153, which represents roughly 870 workers at the plant.
Fibre employed about 1,200 union workers before the layoffs were announced in 2007, Fisher said.
Company officials spent much of Monday meeting with the crews on the four shifts at the plant to inform them of the decision, said Laura Prisc, Fibre’s communications manager. E-mails and mailings also were sent to employees who could be affected but weren’t at work Monday, she said.
The No. 9 machine produces kraft paper, which is used to make cement bags, and lightweight container board, used in the manufacturing of corrugated boxes. The slowing economy has led to a decreased demand for those products, according to Fibre President Frank McShane.
“This decision is not a reflection on employee performance,” McShane said in a news release. “Over the past year, the crews responsible for this machine have proven their commitment to improving performance. It is a sound business decision. In the current environment, we must take those steps necessary to ensure we are a viable, successful, long-term business.”
The company will re-evaluate whether to restart the machine at the beginning of 2009, McShane said.
However, workers are questioning whether the Toronto-based Brookfield Asset Management, which bought the company in April of 2007, is invested in keeping the plant and its jobs in the community, Fisher said. While company officials have stressed the need to cut costs, workers are seeing the company spend money on painting and beautification projects, he said. “People are really wondering what exactly the goal of the company is,” Fisher said.
“It looks like they’re getting it ready for potential buyers.”
Fibre is turning a profit, but it’s not meeting the goals set by Brookfield investors, Prisc said.
“Our goal is to be here for the long haul. But a business has to be profitable and run effectively and efficiently,” Prisc said.
Fibre’s board of directors voted to sell the company for $2.15 billion to Brookfield, ending about 80 years of local management by the Wollenberg family. The pulp and paper mill had been losing money for years before the sale.
Brookfield Asset Management, which owns $95 billion of timberlands, power generation facilities and office properties on three continents, has made a profit of $307 million companywide profit through the first two fiscal quarters ending in July. The company’s profit is down from the $348 million profit during the same period last year.
Profit breakdowns for the company’s pulp and paper operations are not reported separately.
In January, Fibre shut down two of its oldest machines, Nos. 2 and 8, which manufactured paper with color-printed finishes, because they were no longer profitable. The company will be down to five paper machines after No. 9 shuts down.
Related articles:
Fibre management layoffs begin (June 18)
Some Fibre employees asked to reapply as part of restructuring plan (May 23)
roudy russ wrote on Oct 20, 2008 3:56 PM:
" This is how the Canadians work, they will strip down the work force to the bone and then expect twice the production. I will also not be surprised if they shut down the whole mill within a year or two. Why else would they separate the timber division from the pulp mill. Thanks alot Mr. Wallenberg. "
Gondolapete wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:00 PM:
" OR perhaps they are laying off because they need to lay off...jobs are not a right... "
Common Sense 24 wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:07 PM:
" It will be alright. Obama will fix everything. He'll start it back up. "
Billy Hill wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:14 PM:
" These are exactly the people who need to pay higher taxes. As soon as President Obama takes over the greedy rich corporations like Brookfield will be put in there place and made to pay their fair share. They must made to "spread the wealth around" and not only to the high paid union workers. The guest workers and the poor have just as much right to that money as anyone. OBAMA 08. "
CowlitzSounding wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:32 PM:
" A legacy from our president. Jobs for overseas! I want change. "
DW wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:39 PM:
" Maybe it is more a result of the Unions and the union workers pricing themselves out of the global job market. hmmmm Unions accross the country had better rethink how they run themselves if they are to survive. "
Sparkler wrote on Oct 20, 2008 4:50 PM:
" All of you Obamanese will think differently when a utopian state does not appear before your brainwashed eyes. Mark my words because you will be eating yours within two years. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 20, 2008 5:16 PM:
" Cowlitzsounding-It just happened to be Bill Clinton that proposed and signed into law NAFTA. "
allaboutschools wrote on Oct 20, 2008 5:24 PM:
" So are we getting paper from China now too? Who is beating us out of the work? "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 20, 2008 5:26 PM:
" Billy Hill-"As soon as President Obama takes over the greedy rich corporations like Brookfield will be put in there place and made to pay their fair share." When Obama raises their taxes, they are just going to lay off more people, What makes you think a company will hire more people, when they have less net profit to use to expand and create more jobs?? Obama is going to tax them out of business, then there will be NO jobs, just welfare!! But all you Obama supporters seem like you want socialism, just wait until you get it, government housing, food stamps, free medical at the health clinic, everything you need to just barely exist! "
cheney119 wrote on Oct 20, 2008 6:29 PM:
" Another big economic blow and you jerks just want to talk hate and ignorance. Gondolapete do you think everyone on the Number 9 Paper Machine deserves to be laid off? I bet you would not say that to their face or to their kids and wives. You people make me sick. Look what has happened to this town since 2001, completely losing Reynolds and now major cuts at Fibre. But things would be worse under Obama? Sure I'm just trembling about that. You are a pathetic bunch of liars and completely insensitive heartless fools. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 20, 2008 7:29 PM:
" Billy Hill- I did some research on Brookfield Asset Management (BAM), they operate on only 6.2% net profit margin(that is quite a bit below the industry average), If Obama raises the taxes the proposed 3% then their operating on 3.2% net profit. So there goes your greed argument. FYI 59.32% of the company is own by Institutional ownership and 2% by mutual funds, paying out 42% of that on dividends, so if you have a 401k ,like about half the population you are getting the profits, not the "fat cats"! another interesting thing I found was they are listed as a REIT (real estate investment trust). "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 20, 2008 7:43 PM:
" cheney119- What this county really needs is to diversify, they put all their eggs into one basket, relying on the timber industry is just feast or famine. When you take a look at what the Port of Kalama has done, chemical, timber, grain, glass, steel, they have hedged their bets, stabilizing the local economy when the timber market is down. Longview/ Kelso needs to find ways to attract new industry other then Timber. "
just me again wrote on Oct 20, 2008 7:50 PM:
" I feel for these families. I just found out a friend of mine is included in this round of layoffs. I just can't imagine any worse timing. The holidays are just around the corner, what about these families kids? I hope that there is something that can be done for these workers. "
CowlitzSounding wrote on Oct 20, 2008 8:07 PM:
" Kalama River Res.- It's clear that your mind has been polluted by Fox News, Lars, etc. Please examine history. Any positive growth for our county has come by improvements made by local labor and their unions. We have suffered at the hands of the Reaganomics philosophy. It has never worked here! Not in the time of Long Bell's demise, or in any time until now. Bill Clinton's policies. lowered our unemployment and created jobs for our local economy. Why don't you research something useful. Your arguments fall apart too easily. Calm, confidence, and support for the middle class makes capitalism work. Giving massive money to the rich is stupid. Who in their right mind would ever think that this is a way for a society to build wealth? "
Kem Cho wrote on Oct 20, 2008 8:07 PM:
" Do not fear. Obama is here. He has a plan. He will tax these greedy big businesses to their extinction. I have yet to see any candidate telling us how they going to create new jobs. Does anybody know? "
applepie wrote on Oct 20, 2008 8:29 PM:
" There you go again "cheney119" calling people names "pathetic bunch of liars and fools".I thought you had got over that.Guess thats what I get for thinking.
We'll be allright when "The Great One takes over". I know my income will increase as I will be getting some of that free money from you small business owners that make over $250 Thousand. It is really a shame that some of you worked very hard, went to school, then college and spent all that time and money and now you have to "spread the wealth around".Of course some of that "free money will go to our new illegal" as more of them show up to live in the land of FREE TO ALL. Things are really going to be great. "
We'll be allright when "The Great One takes over". I know my income will increase as I will be getting some of that free money from you small business owners that make over $250 Thousand. It is really a shame that some of you worked very hard, went to school, then college and spent all that time and money and now you have to "spread the wealth around".Of course some of that "free money will go to our new illegal" as more of them show up to live in the land of FREE TO ALL. Things are really going to be great. "
batman wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:14 PM:
" the problem is all you tree hugging whiners that take plastic bags at the grocery are to blame. #9 machine makes paper for bags. no orders to fill=no machine crew needed to run the machine.
paper or plastic? the answer is clear! "
paper or plastic? the answer is clear! "
allaboutschools wrote on Oct 20, 2008 9:36 PM:
" You guys are missing the boat here.. Obama is planning to promote big and small business IN THE USA. He plans to tax the rich this means their personal income tax. Big corporations doing business outside of the USA will be targeted too. Obama wants to get back to the good old days where we kept our dollar at home. "
mom of four wrote on Oct 20, 2008 10:04 PM:
" I hope that these men and women can get some type of help. Sorry, to hear that you lost your job. BTW, it will be a cold day in hell before my rights are stripped. So, good luck to that. We will have a war on our hands if that every trys to pass. "
pearl wrote on Oct 21, 2008 12:17 AM:
" well I think the paper buisness is done. Obama will not be able to save it, and more is to come. I can see the plant with chains on its front gates by the end of next year, and then our only remaineing plant wayerhouser will go next in a few years and the this are will become nothing but a ghost town and a former shell of a once great area to live just look at vader! We are next! "
lurkertom wrote on Oct 21, 2008 1:05 AM:
" Waiting for TDN Bad Boy to come in here and blame it all on the liberals and Dean Takko. "
UW Squirrels wrote on Oct 21, 2008 2:03 AM:
" Pearl, the paper business is done? Fibre has been having trouble with the quality of their TEA-Kraft (concrete) bags recently. That, coupled with reduced construction caused by the downturn in the economy, meens orders are down for TEA-Kraft are down. No. 11 machine, which makes TEA-Kraft, had to absorb orders from No. 9 mahcine in order to keep No. 11 running. That's why No. 9 is shutting down. Hopefully when orders for TEA-Kraft increase they will be able to start No. 9 back up. "
pangborn wrote on Oct 21, 2008 2:14 AM:
" It is not about Canada its about the Shysters who own Fibre. The bells are tolling for Fibre and Longview.
Read 'em and weep. "
Read 'em and weep. "
cheney119 wrote on Oct 21, 2008 3:28 AM:
" Peoples lives are wrecked by things completely out of their control and you want to blame the victims. Screw your econ lecture Kalama River, easy for you to say. Should we diversify like say aluminum? The rest of these damned political diatribes do nobody any good and won't put bread on tables of the unemployed. The lack of living wage jobs will wreck this country, lets hear your diatribes include a little of that. Oh that's right the ownership society means you are just on your own. Conservatives just want to blame the victims. Your time is over now. "
Mama Mia wrote on Oct 21, 2008 5:59 AM:
" The sole purpose of the Union has been failing for many years,you cannot keep asking for more and think there is no end to how much the company can give. "
stargoddess wrote on Oct 21, 2008 6:07 AM:
" Why does it seem that these companies wait until just before Christmas time to do these big layoffs?? I've seen it done so many times. What would it hurt to at LEAST wait until after the holiday season? "
John Galt wrote on Oct 21, 2008 6:28 AM:
" It was announced in 2007 that this would happen and the union leader says This is unexpected. This is not who I want watching out for me. I will take care of myself. "
sosorry wrote on Oct 21, 2008 6:30 AM:
" This is not good news. These are the kind of infrastructure layoffs that point to a much bigger uglier picture unfolding. The housing boom is over but the fallout is going to take awhile. It is from bad policy at the top of the heap. We have not been paying the real cost of government for the entire time Bush has been in office. Eight years is a long time. It is going to be a lot easier if we are good and helpful with each other. "
Common Sense 24 wrote on Oct 21, 2008 6:33 AM:
" Oh no, the paper business isn't done. Obama will save us all. He is the savior reincarnate. He will make everything all right. Maybe he will redistribute some wealth their way to help them out. In fact, he better raise somebodies taxes to help bail them out. "
Sparkler wrote on Oct 21, 2008 6:45 AM:
" Hello? mom of four? In case you haven't noticed, we already have a "war on our hands". But don't worry, Barack Baby is going to fix the whole darned planet! He's gonna CHANGE everything! He is the new world Robin Hood! All of those that are losing their jobs at Fibre will get lots of money cuz the Obamanese will re-distribute all of the wealth in the land! Free food for all! I am packing up and leaving Washington and moving to our 51st state. The State of Utopia! Thanks Barack! You are my hero! "
rave on wrote on Oct 21, 2008 6:55 AM:
" Maybe someone better let Obama on to how much Brookfield is saving on severance pay by systematically shutting this place down. Or better yet tax the union officials for that money.I really feel for the guys that didn't have the inclination to take the early retirement offer. Maybe Mr. Fisher will qualify for some retraining benefits and will take some English classes so he can understand a union contract. Then he can stand up for your rights for the "next contract" Ha !! lol
If you are anywhere near 55 people run for your life !!! "
If you are anywhere near 55 people run for your life !!! "
DW wrote on Oct 21, 2008 7:27 AM:
" Cheney119, did your schwinn get a flat tire or something? Did you forget to kick your dog this morning? American Union jobs are leaving because the US has some of the highest business taxes on the planet, coupled with Unions that are pricing American workers out of a global jobs market. I would wish that nobody looses their job, but if some concessions are not made on the part of the Unions, you are going to see this trend continue. GM is blowing through cash right now, and Chryster is up for sale. A very large holder of Ford shares just dumped 7 million shares of stock today. Do you really believe the Messiah, BO, is going to fix this?? I seriously believe if BO becomes President, he will say, "My fellow Americans, the problem is worse than I was told. We will have to raise taxes on everyone to get out of this mess." Cheney119 please stop with the grape favored Kool-aid. Your rants are not very productive. "
laid off wrote on Oct 21, 2008 7:27 AM:
" Fibre did this last year at the same time. It would have be easier if they would just shut down the whole plant instead of leading these guys along. Most of the guys after go day after day waiting to hear when it will be there time. Fibre is trying to lower its accidents, but how can the workers concentrate when they are waiting to lose their job. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 21, 2008 7:30 AM:
" Cowlitzsounding-FYI, I don't rely on FOX news for my information, they just barely scratch the surface when they report five minute stories. I'll watch CNBC in the morning and read the Daily news, The Wall Street Journal, Market Watch, Barron's ,Forbes, Naked Capitalism and my Favorite, which I also write in, The Motley Fool. I do not know how you support capitalism, but are willing to vote for candidates who want a socialistic society!!! "
Kalama Dude wrote on Oct 21, 2008 7:34 AM:
" A good percentage of the paper from this machine is used to make paper bags for pet food from a company in Vancouver. The bags did go to NW Pet Products in Woodland, who is now using more plastic poly pro bags out of China and not the paper bags made in Vancouver. Therefore Chinese imports are directly affecting the out put of this once thriving paper machine. Don't believe it, go to Winco and see that Atta Boy dog food from Woodland are now in poly pro plastic bags. That once again used to be Fibre paper made on that #9 machine. For those losing their jobs over this group up and complain to NW Pet Products about what their decision to use Chinese import bags has really meant to good union jobs here in Longview and at the bag maker in Vancouver. The losses over a few pennies a bag are staggering to imagine. Thanks. "
longview citizen wrote on Oct 21, 2008 7:37 AM:
" Only a couple of comments. 1) this machine does specialty bags and corrugated paper for boxes, not paper bags like in the store. According to this article, I do not work there just going by what is stated in the article. 2) there is no reason to blame each other as the company is going to do what they want and yes I agree it will be locked up by the end of 2009.
3)We all need to encourage our politicians etc to get NEW industry to Longview if we do not yes we will become a ghost town. We need to diversify our port and give incentive for other business to want to came to Longview. If I were considering bringing business to Longview I would research and read some of these blogs. I would also turn and run from all of the negative garbage on here. We must come together as a community and work together not tear each other apart. "
3)We all need to encourage our politicians etc to get NEW industry to Longview if we do not yes we will become a ghost town. We need to diversify our port and give incentive for other business to want to came to Longview. If I were considering bringing business to Longview I would research and read some of these blogs. I would also turn and run from all of the negative garbage on here. We must come together as a community and work together not tear each other apart. "
rainbird wrote on Oct 21, 2008 7:41 AM:
" Before you go slamming those "darned Canadians" read a newspaper other than the Daily Snooze. The Canadian economy is the most stable in the world right now. Their banks weren't allowed to rape and pillage the general population with high interest high risk loans. They have soldiers dying in Afghanistan because they back the US WAR ON TERROR and are still able to provide health care to all their population. And, when they don't like the way their leader is performing they call a general election and boot their ass out. Maybe there is a reason Fibre has to cut jobs. Maybe they're not profitable and the "Canadians" are trying to save your sorry town. The World is changing people. Be a part of the change or play the victim the rest of your life. WHHHHHHAAAAAAA Cry babies. "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Oct 21, 2008 8:05 AM:
" More local jobs lost on Da Tax Queen's watch. How can anyone say we have a better state after four years of her. That's four years too many. Vote for Rossi and vote for a better Washington, one that will protect jobs, not lose them. "
Lucky7 wrote on Oct 21, 2008 8:06 AM:
" What a bunch ignorant people... I expect the average IQ of those that blame this on the greedy union/workers have an IQ of about 2... Just how many years has Fibre been a union company? Come on people it's corporate greed. Shareholders/Ownership looking for a quick buck at all costs. This is american capitalism in it's sickest form. Once again the CEO/ownership WILL make money while the american worker gets screwed yet again! "
gabby wrote on Oct 21, 2008 8:15 AM:
" One way to help our area is if all shoppers would ask for PAPER BAGS and not except PLASTIC. I always ask for paper...and get a little up set when local retailers do not supply them...Ross, Target, The Dollar store...just to name a few. We are a paper town and we need to support our workers and local companies better. ASK FOR PAPER AND DON'T TAKE PLASTIC "
Mr. Bastinado wrote on Oct 21, 2008 8:19 AM:
" I don't mean to sound pollyannish, but, if you look at how long the mill has been unprofitable, or at least barely marginable, ya need to tip your hat to the board and the Wallenberg's for keeping one of the area's largest employers cranking out paychecks for as long as they did. It all would've come to a grinding halt years ago if it hadn't been for their resistance to buyouts and (dare I say) their commitment to the area. I say, Thanks Be Where Thanks is Due. It was a good run while it lasted. "
ACP wrote on Oct 21, 2008 8:23 AM:
" what part of Canadian owned Brookfield is it that will be paying higher US tax. Whey do you think there were no buyer inside the borders of our own country when the time to sell came. as with most large US based companies its cheaper to buy our factory's than to buy our products. welcome to the global economy "
Kalama Dude wrote on Oct 21, 2008 8:27 AM:
" This machine absolutely does make paper for specialty bags like pet foods from NW Pet Products in Woodland. This machine makes the unique Tea Kraft paper and that paper is used by the truck load at the bag plant in Vancouver and those bags are of the higher quality that were/are being in Woodland. For Longview Citizen, you should know #9 made Tea Kraft and one of the single largest users was the bag plant in Vancouver. Maybe check your facts before stating one thing over another and again union brothers should be happy to let NW Pet Products know that they don't accept the use of Chinese plastic bags versus Fibre paper in the bags of Atta Boy. If nothing else stop buying Atta Boy and get only pet foods in paper bags at least you can be assured of it being US made paper. Thanks "
pangborn wrote on Oct 21, 2008 8:43 AM:
" Socialism isn't the government owning anything its the people owning everything. "
Mr. Bastinado wrote on Oct 21, 2008 8:47 AM:
" Yes Bad Boy, another industry raped by Repulisican trade policies. The only difference from then to now is that the timber barons live across the border. Vote for Chris Gregoire if you want to help safeguard the state's resources from being sold out. Rossi will sell out anyone that gives him a political contribution (like the BIAoW). Oh, and because I watch whats going on, I'm better off now than 4 years ago-no thanks to the Wall Street debacle created by 6 years of Republican rule and elimination of sane banking regulations. Vote Democrat if you don't like the fox watching the hen house. "
mikadax wrote on Oct 21, 2008 8:57 AM:
" These type of mill jobs can no longer be counted on as lifelong employment. Always have a back up plan! "
bert wrote on Oct 21, 2008 9:03 AM:
" Mama Mia: So the unions fighting for decent family wage jobs are at fault because they ask for more? At 2%, 2 1/2% and 3% pay increases, all unions, including Fibre's Union(AWPPW), along with increased cost to the employees for medical insurance, the union employees have been losing true income for many years. And lets not forget that for every union job that there are jobs in the community that are dependant upon those union employee's spending their income. So the actual damage to the community is many time the 90 jobs being lost at Fibre. All while the school administrators get an almost 10% pay increase. Minimum wage in the state of Washington is the highest in the nation and will continue to increase to well over $12.00 an hour within a few short years. Entitlement programs continue to increase benefits. If it were not for the Union, Brookfield would be paying much lower and not provide benefits. So what we really all need is to have a Union fighting to stop this backward trend for income and benefits. "
bert wrote on Oct 21, 2008 9:14 AM:
" John Galt: Please read the article. These lay offs are in ADDITION to the other layoffs that were announced in 2007. "
kem cho wrote on Oct 21, 2008 9:30 AM:
" If Union Leaders did not know it was coming, what good these unions are far? They like politicians sleep on the job and raise h***, after the fact. Good going! "
Cheney119 wrote on Oct 21, 2008 9:31 AM:
" The U.S. auto corporations made the wrong type of cars. Don't blame the unions because their grotesquely overpaid management did recognize the increasing fuel costs even though they've spiked each of the last 4 summers. Plus theses companies have the proper cars to sell, they just produce them in Europe and have sold them there for years. If we had national healthcare the U.S. auto corporations would fine, one of their biggest costs is healthcare, mostly for pensioners. This is such a problem they choose to build cars in Canada rather than here, because they're socialist there. But this has not one thing to do with the layoffs at Fibre and the dieing town of Longview. Fibre hasn't been profitable for years and you could see this coming when they were purchased, but these callous posts do nothing to help. You jerks ought to learn some manners. This town continues to decline and you can't support a family with the jobs that are available here. The best and brightest will continue to flee to places with opportunity. Tell me the huge underclass, generational unemployment and crime/drug abuse aren't directly related. "
bert wrote on Oct 21, 2008 9:42 AM:
" Mr. Bastinado: Who enacted NAFTA a within weeks of being in office? Who championed and signed in legislation the bill that created the sub prime mortgage industry that has almost destroyed this country? "
bowlingalleygirl wrote on Oct 21, 2008 9:55 AM:
" As long as minimum wage keeps rising, the unions will have to ask for more to retain the value of their skilled jobs which in turn will decrease the number of employees working these jobs because companies will offset the wage increases within the payroll first. A dollar an hr raise for a $10 job will mean 1 in 10 employees would need to be laid off to keep the same profit margin for the company. Minimum wage increases looked good short term when first implemented but look around now, were feeling the burn of a past policy from a time it was more feasible. 10 years ago, 10 bucks an hr. wasnt bad but now you are almost better off to work at McDonalds for minimum wage at 40 hrs per week plus all the extra hours you could want. At many jobs above minimum wage 40 hr weeks are now 36 hour or less weeks due to the increased wage costs. Overtime availability is almost unheard of. I think they call this s**t rolling downhill, but in this case, it tends to roll up. "
sosorry wrote on Oct 21, 2008 10:03 AM:
" Unions require two things to exist- profits and political clout. When both are gone so are unions.
When one or the other is gone their survival time is short.
I will miss having great wages and benefits. As we go into this coming time realize that the only thing that can bring our jobs home is our own poverty. Strange statement but it will be fulfilled. Be good to each other, okay? "
When one or the other is gone their survival time is short.
I will miss having great wages and benefits. As we go into this coming time realize that the only thing that can bring our jobs home is our own poverty. Strange statement but it will be fulfilled. Be good to each other, okay? "
finchica wrote on Oct 21, 2008 10:21 AM:
" Do you really think Obama gives two shakes about Longview Fibre.. ha not a lick! We should focus more on our local government rather than our BIG government if you can even call it that. I also... IF Obama is to be elected im sure he has way bigger fish to fry than US here in the sad little place called Cowlitz county.. I doubt he even has a clue of where or what Cowlitz county is!!! Glad to see we have someone to blame though right?? Its the easy thing to do! BLAME BLAME BLAME.. Why dont we get off our pity pot and do something instead of sitting here complaining of our politicians.. US as Americans are partly to blame because we are greedy and want more more more and expect to do less and less about it. Why are we out sourcing?? To start its wages. Here in WA Min Wage goes up by about 43 cents in January. There goes another hundred thousand jobs. So thank your neighbors not Obama. "
Viewpoint wrote on Oct 21, 2008 10:27 AM:
" Call me naive but I still think this region should continue to focus on timber and wood products as a main driver of our long term economic future. Trees are a renewable resource and we grow them better and faster here than just about anywhere. We are a shipping hub. The question is can we turn trees into products that people need that are better and cheaper than can be produced elsewhere? This region certainly has the brawn and will to make the industry thrive but were also going to need innovation, brains, initiative, and R & D investment. "
Im_not_saying wrote on Oct 21, 2008 10:37 AM:
" A simple solution to companies trying to get "more bang for the buck" by firing workers is to force them to provide for job training and suppliments for the workers they put out of business. I say strip EVERY tax break for any company that sends american jobs overseas, and penalize them for every job sent away. Companies sending jobs away just for the almighty buck has to stop, or else no one will have a job. The oil companies having billions of dollars in profits and saying that the rise in prices is due to demand is stupid. The only rise in demand is the demand for more money in their CEO's pockets. "
mom of four wrote on Oct 21, 2008 10:38 AM:
" SPARKLER~ read my comment again I said
I hope that these men and women can get some type of help. Sorry, to hear that you lost your job. BTW, it will be a cold day in hell before my rights are stripped. So, good luck to that. We will have a war on our hands if that every trys to pass. "
SO, FOR YOUR INFO WE AS AMERICANS ON AMERICAN SOIL DO NOT HAVE A WAR FIGHTING FOR ARE RIGHT TO HAVE A GUN IN OUR HOME!~WE ARE AT WAR IN A DIFFRENT COUNTRY FIGHTING OVER STUPID "STUFF". SO, HELLO READ AND UNDERSTAND BEFORE YOU COMMENT HELLO! "
I hope that these men and women can get some type of help. Sorry, to hear that you lost your job. BTW, it will be a cold day in hell before my rights are stripped. So, good luck to that. We will have a war on our hands if that every trys to pass. "
SO, FOR YOUR INFO WE AS AMERICANS ON AMERICAN SOIL DO NOT HAVE A WAR FIGHTING FOR ARE RIGHT TO HAVE A GUN IN OUR HOME!~WE ARE AT WAR IN A DIFFRENT COUNTRY FIGHTING OVER STUPID "STUFF". SO, HELLO READ AND UNDERSTAND BEFORE YOU COMMENT HELLO! "
mom of four wrote on Oct 21, 2008 10:45 AM:
" OBAMA WILL PUT US ALL ON WELFARE BARELY TO SCRAP BY AND HEY GUYS JUST BE HAPPY! "
Go Chinooks!!! wrote on Oct 21, 2008 10:47 AM:
" Hey Fisher, next contract comes up you be strong and dont let them push you around and you get us MORE, MORE, MORE. That has really worked well so far...... "
DUH wrote on Oct 21, 2008 11:11 AM:
" What a bunch of fools. He isn't even President yet and you're already blaming Obama. GROW UP! You act like a bunch of grade schoolers. And you wonder whats wrong with kids today. As far as I can tell by your example, they're acting like adults. "
Billy Hill wrote on Oct 21, 2008 11:13 AM:
" Cheney.....this area has been run by Democrats, county, city, state for as long as memory serves. This area should be the Meca of liberalism, a shining star to guide the path for America and all that it stands for. Strong unionization of local manufacturing, living wages, educational opportunities for all. Ready access to interstate, rail and shipping. THIS PLACE SHOULD BE BOOMING! Point: A 2 year degree from LCC in the medical field will produce a $50,000.00 a year job with gauranteed placement at completion. The drop out rate has never been higher. Point: When Fiber was hiring over 50% of applicants to a $40,000.00 a year job within 10 years could not pass a drug test. Welfare rolls and moneys allocated to "help" are at an all time high. Liberalism has ruined the thoughts, minds and the will of vast numbers of our society, period. Spending a few hrs. around Longview one will notice tweakers tweaking, openly, vast numbers of people who have eaten so much their legs will no longer carry them so to aid stores make Hoverounds available to move their enormous bodies around. At dinner times serpentine lines of cars pack McDonalds and fast food eateries. This community is sick, sick, sick. Most of the people in this area have your attitude as it has been expressed on this site time and again. NEGITIVE! There is always something wrong with everything. I can't wait until President Obama comes to power and rights all of our wrongs. "
Common Sense 24 wrote on Oct 21, 2008 11:50 AM:
" To Billy Hill: Obama's way of thinking is what created this so called meca you describe. So how does it look when you spread the wealth around? Pretty negative, eh? "
CowlitzCountyResident wrote on Oct 21, 2008 11:51 AM:
" First, I would like to say this is bad news for Cowlitz County and for all the people working on this machine that will be displaced by the shutdown. My sympathy goes out to those workers and there families. Secondly, looking at this blog there are so many people ready to blame the Unions and Obama. What this county, and our community, has come to and the condition that it is in is not a result of the Unions, or Obama running for President. Please take the time to set aside the issues that seem to consume the readers and bloggers and look at the real issues. The leadership of this nation has lost touch with the working class and has made decisions in the past that are directly effecting you now. We are in a war that is costing $10 billion dollars a month and a president that has openly supported and created policies that help companies out-source jobs. It does not take an economist to predict that policies like outsourcing American Jobs and the sheer amount of money the war has cost would result in the crisis we are in today. We are to a place in history that we must make a choice for change and set a new direction for America. Please take the time to open your eyes and truly look at the real issues and start giving accountability were it is due. "
Atrucker wrote on Oct 21, 2008 12:11 PM:
" politics has nothing what so ever to do with Brookfields decision. They are trying to stay above a sea of red ink that the past owner, did not do. They took losses for years. That is something they said would not happen .
So bottom line if your not making a profit , some thing has to go.
It has nothing to do with the presidental race , it is more the stock market and nobody buying any thing . If you want a scap goat point the finger at your self first. Ask what can we do to restart the economy , that is the real question.
We have over harvested the mature trees for years , At some point this will bite the timber industry in the rear , and hard . Cathalament is in trouble already , by relying on timber. The Wauna mill is doing some thing right , they added machines to their plant . Good luck job hunting , I know it will not be fun. "
So bottom line if your not making a profit , some thing has to go.
It has nothing to do with the presidental race , it is more the stock market and nobody buying any thing . If you want a scap goat point the finger at your self first. Ask what can we do to restart the economy , that is the real question.
We have over harvested the mature trees for years , At some point this will bite the timber industry in the rear , and hard . Cathalament is in trouble already , by relying on timber. The Wauna mill is doing some thing right , they added machines to their plant . Good luck job hunting , I know it will not be fun. "
DW wrote on Oct 21, 2008 12:26 PM:
" O.K. where do I start...Cheney119 Chevy made some very good quality cars in the 90's that got great gas mileage even for today's standards. I had a '98 Monte Carlo that go 30 MPG. I traded it for a 12 MPG truck that I like very much. As far as health care goes I will only say this, if you think health care is expensive now, WAIT UNTIL IT'S FREE!! and CowblitzCountryRez did you get all that stuff from the Obama talking points web site?? Billy Hill makes a good point. Cowblitz county has leaned to the left for decades, why is it that this county is not the Garden of Eden as an example of the success of liberalism. Because liberalism, like communism and socialism doesn't work. Capitalism and free markets work. But when you intermix Capitalism and liberalism you have what has happened in the banking mess. Liberals forcing sound banks to work outside of known succesful models and voile', BIG MESS!! And Cheney119 don't give us this crap that 'Oh Canada' is completely socialist. They are not. I would like to know, though, what did 'Oh Canada' do with all the enviro's that should have kept them from drilling for oil and becoming the #1 importer of oil to the United States. Oh, wait, they shipped them all here so we won't drill and compete with them. Maybe those Canuks are smarter than us!! "
Billy Hill wrote on Oct 21, 2008 12:37 PM:
" Lessons for all: Stop worrying about the "billions" or "trillions" spent on this and that...the government, fed, can "make" money as long as they have paper and ink which will never be in short supply. Brookfield is not in the business of creating wealth. If they were they would be trying to expand the market, increase business and shortly, with qualified management, would be hiring not laying off. They are in the "used car business", buy it low, shine it up and sell it off. Morality is not in their lexicon. I am sure if the manager of operations tries long enough and hard enough eventually he will find a job in which he can be successful. When the overwhelming majority of citizens in this area look at themselves as victims the battle is lost before it even starts. There are far to few personally responsible positive minded entrepreneurs with access to capital AND far to few customers with the purchasing power to sustain them in this area unless you are in the fast food or used car business. "
sosorry wrote on Oct 21, 2008 12:57 PM:
" The sad fact is that as we speak the socalled bail out is borrowed money as well. Why? If some talking head came on t.v. saying okay to save your country's economy it will take one half of every adult Americans paycheck for 4-5 years what would you say? Would you trust them enough to do right with the money? The same people who caused the mess?
Of course not. Like it or not a vote for McCain is a vote for those same people. He is not the man he was. Whatever good that was there has sold out to them in his end of life attempt at the Presidency.
Do you really believe that having the Rove machine working for you means a free rein after the win? This the last call of a hollow man and then we will have Sarah whose firm grasp of economics and foreign diplomacy mean only one thing: she will be their puppet. Four more years of George W. Bush.
The end. "
Of course not. Like it or not a vote for McCain is a vote for those same people. He is not the man he was. Whatever good that was there has sold out to them in his end of life attempt at the Presidency.
Do you really believe that having the Rove machine working for you means a free rein after the win? This the last call of a hollow man and then we will have Sarah whose firm grasp of economics and foreign diplomacy mean only one thing: she will be their puppet. Four more years of George W. Bush.
The end. "
bert wrote on Oct 21, 2008 1:03 PM:
" It is true that if you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it. Here are the historical facts; Bill Clinton in his first campaign ran with the promise not to sign NAFTA. His position was that NAFTA was bad for the country and bad for the middle class, family wage jobs. Bill Clinton sign NAFTA within weeks of taking office. Bill Clinton and the Democrats passed the housing bill that created the sub prime mortgage market which lead to our current financial crisis. Bill Clinton and the Democrats with their tax the rich policies put a "luxury" tax on yachts. Ask the owners and employees of Tolleycraft how well that worked out. Bill Clinton and the Democrats with their tax the wealthy and redistribute the wealth philosophy passed the Alternative Minimum Tax legislation. Ask those that are now considered to be middle class, be it upper middle class, who are now coming up against this tax due to inflation how well that worked out. Bill Clinton and the Democrats in their tax the rich and redistribute the wealth policies passed a tax on CEO's salary in excess of one million dollars. So the companies added perks to the CEO's pay, such as stock options, loans to the CEO's that they latter wrote off that were not considered "salary". So the CEO's compensations went into the the stratosphere. Now we are on the verge of giving control of the House of Representative, the Senate and the Presidency to "
bulldog42 wrote on Oct 21, 2008 1:07 PM:
" Times are changing in Longview and we need to change with them. Longview has always relied on the mill jobs and we have more service sector type jobs now. You either need to adapt or get left behind in the shuffle. With baby boomers getting older, the demand for jobs in nursing homes is going to grow. People need to pursue careers in that industry. I work in that field and there is a demand for good help everywhere. We need the leadership that Kalama has, they always seem to be making the right decisions. "
FinancialCancer wrote on Oct 21, 2008 1:18 PM:
" God Bless the Fibre employees. I am so sorry for your loss. As a wife of a Fibre employee I can't help but wonder when our time is going to come. We live on that one income due to a child who requires a great deal of medical care that prevents me from working. We are scared and we will be thinking of you. I pray your families will have food in their bellies and a warm place to sleep at night. "
bert wrote on Oct 21, 2008 1:19 PM:
" Bulldog42: You are right. The way to go is service sector jobs. After all most of them pay at or close to minimum wage. But hey, in a few years minimum wage earners in Washington will have an annual income firmly in the upper income level within America. "
sosorry wrote on Oct 21, 2008 1:43 PM:
" Bert you have cheered me up - of course it is all Clintons fault - He was a Centrist during his time Repulblicans got every thing they wanted except his knuckle head and they almost got that. NAFTA was a Republican crafted deal. Like in recent history CAFTA.
If it is something that Clinton did and got throught the Bush years it is because he and his handlers liked it.
You guys got what you wanted. And here we are.
Hosed. Admit it. Help us not ever go down this same road again. Or should I say recover from going down this road? "
If it is something that Clinton did and got throught the Bush years it is because he and his handlers liked it.
You guys got what you wanted. And here we are.
Hosed. Admit it. Help us not ever go down this same road again. Or should I say recover from going down this road? "
bert wrote on Oct 21, 2008 2:11 PM:
" Sosorry: You are correct that NAFTA was a Republican agenda. That does not change the fact that Bill Clinton promised NAFTA would not pass while his was in office yet within literally weeks he enacted NAFTA. What about the luxury tax yachts? The alternative minimum tax? The tax on income over one million dollars? The creation of the sub mortgage industry? Where these also Republican's agenda? "
bulldog42 wrote on Oct 21, 2008 2:26 PM:
" BERT I am just pointing out the facts, I commute to Gladstone, OR because I have choosen to work in a nursing home. The company I work for owns 44 nursing homes throughout WA and OR. They also pay a good wage and it doesn't hurt that I am very good at my job. But people need to get out of the mindset that mill jobs are the only decent paying jobs out there. Yes Initially a service sector job might not pay as well, but in less than three years with my current company I have had my hourly rate jump $4.75. You just got to buckle down and prove yourselves with a new company. When the good lord closes one door he always has another one ready for you open. Longview has a become a commuter town and people got to be willing to drive a little ways to get a decent job and pay. Go buy yourselves a good running little car and the way you go down the freeway. Some days your drive might be longer than others, but at least your working and have a steady paycheck coming in regularly. Yes it could be less initially, but in the long run it's doing to go up!!!! Longview residents hang in there!!!!! "
CowlitzCountyResident wrote on Oct 21, 2008 2:56 PM:
" It is apparent, and very unfortunate that we have a few in our community that cannot see the realities of the current administration. The Presidential seat is one that sets the direction for the nation. The President must set a course that will build this nation and leave it in a place better than when he/she took office. I don't think anyone will be able to say that George Bush will leave this nation stronger or better because of his administration. It is sad to hear bloggers that are not willing to open there eyes and measure something for what is truly is. To everyone that is not blogging and reading these, regardless of your political stance evalute the situations before taking a side. We are in this place for a reason and we for sure do not want to continue this path. We need to support the working class and support change. And to "Bert" please don't ask these people to swallow the poison pill that you have obviously swallowed. "
bert wrote on Oct 21, 2008 3:08 PM:
" Bulldog42: I don't need to find a job. I own a business that is in the service sector. I have worked in the service sector for minimum wage. I also worked at Fibre for many years and have friends that still work at the mill. I do pay my employees at or near minimum wage. With minimum wage in Washington I look for an adult who is currently employed full time and is just looking to supplement their income. I don't even consider a teenager. And I have no problem finding employees when I am hiring. That is, I believe, the mind set of many small employers. That is why most young people are having problems finding work Why hire a young person that has no employment track record when you can hire a stable, proven employee? You are right however, we need to get out of the mill mind set. Why? Because of NAFTA. When I was a young man America was the world's strongest industrial nation. Now we are the world's strongest service nation(read minimum wage). "
bert wrote on Oct 21, 2008 3:31 PM:
" CowlitzCountyResident: Poison pill? Ask those Tolleycraft employees who lost their job directly because of the punish the rich agenda of the Democrats if it is a poison pill or just a bitter pill to swallow. Ask those that no longer own their home because of Democrats policies that created the sub prime mortgage if it is a poison pill. Democrats have always been about creating a class envy. The wealthy are villains to be despised and punished. And why is it exactly that Democrats court the young, undereducated? Could it be because as you gain life experience and knowledge you can see through their fallacy of their policies? "
mikadax wrote on Oct 21, 2008 3:37 PM:
" to Billy Hill,,,what LCC medical course is that? I went to LCC and there aren't any 2-year degrees that will earn you that much that I know of. "
whos who wrote on Oct 21, 2008 3:38 PM:
" I just want to thank the people that took the time to share that they were sorry about the lay off. As I was reading the discussion today I realized that there is a lot of people that want someone else to fix it. That is why today is the way it is, if people would just take heart and think about the effects this has on a family (this includes the big wigs at Fibre) possibly we could come up with a plan of restoration. For now I have to explain to my kids why dad wont have a job and why Santa wont be so gracious this year. Again I just wanted to thank the people that see the immediate impact of such a ordeal. "
bert wrote on Oct 21, 2008 3:57 PM:
" Whos who: Yes lets have some empathy for the big wigs at Fibre and how this is affecting them. Let see, they still have their very well paying job, nice house, health insurance nice cars and don't have to worry about how they are going to pay their bills. I feel very sorry for the "Frank McShains" of Fibre. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 21, 2008 4:23 PM:
" After reading all the comments, I did not hear much about the county commissioners, Why don't they have a plan to bring new industry to this area? If the do, it is not working and they should be voted out. Anybody that has grown up in this town knows there are good years and bad for the timber industry, but yet they have not diversified the local economy, stabilizing the unemployment rate!! Why can the Port of Kalama do it, and not Cowlitz county? "
roymacavoy75 wrote on Oct 21, 2008 4:58 PM:
" Well it is that time of year again. People trying to convince others who are right and who are wrong. One good thing is that we have Choices, Choices, Choices. it could be worse, we could have no say in the way things are done and the people who represent my best interest. Before you cast your vote in this historic election year, Don't Just vote for a (D) or an (R) ask yourself these questions. Am I happy with the current circumstances in America? Who has the best vision for us? Am I happy with the way things are in Washington State? Do I believe that keeping the Governor, representatives and legislators in their positions is good for me and Washington state as a whole? Last But not least, Is cowlitz county where it should be, and are the elected officials doing their job? Remember this...NOTHING CHANGES UNLESS YOU CAST YOUR VOTE AND MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD. "
whos who wrote on Oct 21, 2008 5:57 PM:
" I'm sorry if it sounded like I cared for them, I ment that they needed to see what there choices are doing to the community - - doing to my family, they don't care and I hope someday they have to struggle. I hope this clears it up for you. We are the average american family and because of Fibre we will now be considered poverty. I know they don't care they have proven that time and time again everytime they do lay offs. They are still making a profit there is no reason they cant try harder to keep employes. "
bert wrote on Oct 21, 2008 7:19 PM:
" Whos who: I am sorry to hear you are being affected by Fibre's lay offs. I think you can be pretty sure that the "Frank McShains" of Fibre will never struggle. Even if Fibre were to close it's doors you can be sure they all have a nice golden parachute. All they have to do is lay off enough employees to insure that there is enough in the bank for them to collect their severance package. "
Kitten wrote on Oct 21, 2008 7:30 PM:
" Bert-Thank you! I couldn't have said it better myself. My main fear is "Where do we go from here?" If Obama gets in, he will tax the middle class into extinction. If McCain gets in, he will tax the middle class into extinction. What everyone needs to realize is that wtihout the middle class, neither liberals or conservatives can get their way. I just don't see a bright future here. "
really really wrote on Oct 21, 2008 9:05 PM:
" Trust that there are more big changes to come - that is the operating mode for the new additions to the Fibre fold "
bulldog42 wrote on Oct 21, 2008 11:11 PM:
" Bert I am just saying times have changed and some how this town has to try and move on. People need to find other means of employment. When I was younfer in life I did work minimum wage jobs, but now I make well above mininum wage. If I didn't commute to Gladstone everyday I would make a lot less money than I do. I have managed at taco bells, delivered pizza, flipped burgers at McDonalds they weren't the best paying jobs but I was gainfully employeed and trying to help suppport my family. I am sorry that people losted there jobs, I have had that happened to me a couple times in my lifetime and some how I have moved on, many times with family support to help me through the lean times, but I did move on and look for that next opportunity in my life. Bert we can argue about this all day, but it will not change the facts. Longview has changed and we as a community some how have to change with it. "
tatman wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:17 AM:
" To my Union Brothers and Sisters, I would like to say I am very sorry for your job loss, my families prayers will be with you all, and in the end the greedy will get what they deserve. "
lucky1 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:57 AM:
" Kalama Dude: Thanx you had some very insightful info. It seems like a company called NW Pet products would support the NW and buy its bags here. Hopefully if we look at the past there are always ups and downs. So hopefully we will enter into an upside shortly. I feel for the families that will have to struggle. Especially this time of year "
crowsfeet wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:56 AM:
" As John Kerry was always saying during his campaign, but never explaining what he actually meant, “given equal playing fields the US worker can compete with any other country”. We are getting closer, minimum wage for all is what it appears he meant. It would also stop illegal immigration and maybe we would even sneak down there for a better job. "
Kem Cho wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:26 AM:
" People shop at WalMart- buy lower priced items made outside USA, to their benefit. We all want high pay jobs with all benefits. Money keeps on leaving this country. How can you afford or how long you can do like this? Our telephone bills are 5 times of what were only 10 years ago - we buy iPods, listen to music, have access to 100+ channels. We have made what was all luxury before as a need now. No wonder we all feel poor everyday. We went to college with one box and one suitcase. Now kids go to college with U-hauls. Life is changing. No need to blame big business. "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Oct 22, 2008 12:50 PM:
" Once again, this is a problem created by Da Tax Queen. She is extremely anti-business and in the end that really is anti-worker. I am amazed at how much union support she gets when really she is not for job growth. You don't get job growth with anti-business policies. Look at what she has done to the state workers. She is giving every union across the board the same increase. That isn't bargaining in good faith. That is standardized wages. So tell me, how is that good for the unions or the workers? Da Tax Queen is one of the biggest liars this state has ever seen, yet the Liberals bow at her feet. Why? Well she certainly believes in their social-engineering freedoms such as abortion and gay rights. So while she flys the Liberal flag in one area, she slaps the face of the workers and unions in another. If you hold a wage job in this state there is only one candidate who will deal fairly with business and that's Rossi. And in the end working with businesses will create more jobs and better wages than working against us. Da Tax Queen is not for jobs in this state regardless of what she says. Vote Rossi and watch Washington become more job friendly. "
Washington Rez wrote on Oct 22, 2008 12:59 PM:
" I think everyone should come together in this time of need. Things seem to be getting worse day by day. We all know we are in trouble. Maybe we need to come together as one and be America again. "
sosorry wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:11 PM:
" How things change. When I came to Longview one of the things I really liked about the town was its union pride and the knowledge that this is one town that knows its bread is buttered by the Democratic ticket.
Republican policy has allows hammered this town.
Where does anyone get the ideaa Obama is going to wipe out the middle class? Every thing the man talks about is how to save it. Try listening to him. I know it takes some getting used to. The guy looks like the Mad magazine caracature of a lefty pol but he is all the way on our side. "
Republican policy has allows hammered this town.
Where does anyone get the ideaa Obama is going to wipe out the middle class? Every thing the man talks about is how to save it. Try listening to him. I know it takes some getting used to. The guy looks like the Mad magazine caracature of a lefty pol but he is all the way on our side. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:29 PM:
" sosorry- His policy to save the middle class is redistributing the wealth, socialism, it would help some people and punish those that have succeeded, it is against the fundamentals that makes this country great. When you give people just enough to get by on, what incentive is there to do better, if the government just takes it away? "
kitten wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:33 PM:
" sosorry-Talk is cheap! You would think that you would have figured that out by now. I haven't heard either of the two future "leaders" come up with a plan that is feasible to back up their talk. If I am wrong, clue me in. What do either of them say about how to get us out of the tailspin these two parties have spent years putting us into? All I hear is "Blah, Blah, Blah!" The only thing that I think they have been real about is competing to see who can make a bigger joke of themselves. SNL, David Letterman etc. I will say it again. I WILL NOT vote for either of those parties. They disgust me. Someone said, "You're willing to throw your vote away?" The answer is, "No!" I am willing to make my vote stand for something I believe in. How can that be throwing it away? "
Kelso Guy wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:58 PM:
" kalama river resident: those that have succeeded? You mean those that have gotten ahead? Not everyone can get ahead, that means somebody has to fall behind. As the saying goes "a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link." I'm gonna have to agree with Washington Rez on this one. "
ValleyGirl wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:50 PM:
" Hmm? First Reynolds, now Fibre, is Weyerhaeuser next? Merry Ho Ho. "
bert wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:06 PM:
" Kelso Guy: You are right. Not every one can succeed. The ones who drop out of school, sit on the couch drinking their beer while watching their 500 channels on the TV or playing their Wii as they are waiting for the mailman to bring them their food stamps, medical coupons and welfare check. What made America great is that with education and tenacity ANY ONE can succeed.Kalama river resident is right. When you take from those who have, in order to bring those without the gumption to get their own, in order to bring them up to your standard, all you do is bring those who do have down to the lower level. "
snow shark wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:49 PM:
" What are you going to complain about when they shut the whole mill down? We have high fiber cost and our government would rather see our National Forests burn then putting people to work logging and then making paper. I think we need to vote for a politican that can relate to OUR needs. I think we need to throw all the current politicans out of office and try something new.
Just my 2 cents. "
Just my 2 cents. "
tired wrote on Oct 24, 2008 12:50 AM:
" Well now that I've read most of this garbage I can feel free to comment.I work at fibre and wil be caught up in the lay-off.It sucks but it's part of the economic down turn in the world right now.Plus when you have countries like china,brazil and others that can manufacture paper at a cheaper rate than we can it puts us out of business.Don't say it is the unions doing it to themselves either we have been getting less and less for years and having to pay more and more.It has to do with the fact the rest of the world can pay their employees(if you want to call them that) a whole lot less an hour because there is no alternative for them.When you live in a communist country or an economically disadvanteged country it is easy to find cheap labor because most of the people don't know any better or don't have a choice.Any way thats my two cents lie it ornot thats my opinion.Have a good one and to all my union brothers and sisters lets hope for a better tomorrow! "
rythymaxe wrote on Oct 25, 2008 7:51 AM:
" Crowsfeet:
I believe what John Kerry meant by a level playing field is that with outsourcing of jobs, China's undervalued currency (by their own doing)and other countries (energy), corporate America's greed factor,the terrible strain illegals put on our schools and healthcare systems, along with other factors, make America's attempt to compete with the rest of the industrialized world almost impossible. Call me selfish, but I believe a little isolationism to protect our interests and family's well being (that means build and buy American) would help us turn this current situation around. We need to band together, sacrifice (quite a bit, at first anyway), and once again build what we once had to help America become the respected world power it once was. We need to stop being the Divided States of America, agree on the important issues somehow, and work together rebuilding our once great nation. I believe we can do it again with enough honesty, morality, and togetherness that made us great, no so very long ago. One more thing. Unions, as they were when started in the 1930's, were people banding together and fighting for fair, safe workplaces and fair wages. If prices were to fall, I, nor any sane person I know wouldn't mind taking a cut in pay to help slow or stop any recession. But, when corporate heads steal from their employees retirment and such, how can we be looked up to as the template of how businesses should conduct themselves? "
I believe what John Kerry meant by a level playing field is that with outsourcing of jobs, China's undervalued currency (by their own doing)and other countries (energy), corporate America's greed factor,the terrible strain illegals put on our schools and healthcare systems, along with other factors, make America's attempt to compete with the rest of the industrialized world almost impossible. Call me selfish, but I believe a little isolationism to protect our interests and family's well being (that means build and buy American) would help us turn this current situation around. We need to band together, sacrifice (quite a bit, at first anyway), and once again build what we once had to help America become the respected world power it once was. We need to stop being the Divided States of America, agree on the important issues somehow, and work together rebuilding our once great nation. I believe we can do it again with enough honesty, morality, and togetherness that made us great, no so very long ago. One more thing. Unions, as they were when started in the 1930's, were people banding together and fighting for fair, safe workplaces and fair wages. If prices were to fall, I, nor any sane person I know wouldn't mind taking a cut in pay to help slow or stop any recession. But, when corporate heads steal from their employees retirment and such, how can we be looked up to as the template of how businesses should conduct themselves? "
Motherof2 wrote on Oct 27, 2008 12:33 PM:
" This is a sad situation, but people can start over no matter how old they are, it is all in the attitude, and the planning! Start checking out your options now! And no WORKERS COMPENSATION BEFORE THE MILL CLOSES is not a option! come on people, get real if this is your only option then may I suggest going back to school to get your G.E.D. So, that more options, doors, windows, open up to you...... I am speaking from life experience too I'm not just shooting my big mouth off. I am a single mother of 2 and I have had to start over 2 different times in my life. No, it is not easy I had morgage payments to make, car payments to make, food to put on the table, diapers to buy, formula to buy (WIC) doesn't take care of all my childs formula, but instead of pouting, being mad, angry, (which i was all of these things) I got busy looking for a new job, and when I didnt find that I went back to school, and then I had to find a way to pay for that, but I did and now I have 3 different degrees, and I am very employable, if one job doesnt work out i can use my other degree, or the other one.....plan, plan, plan!!!!! You can do it you just have to have the right attitude, and move forward forget the PAST!!! "
sosorry wrote on Oct 28, 2008 1:41 AM:
" The government has been redistributing my wealth for a very long time. For the last eight years the policy has been to give the rich whatever they want. As we can all see this socialism for a small minority has resulted in some problems. And if they were not still squeezing every last dime out of the real value that still may or may not be left they would be part of the majority- brokeass Americans in hock to their eyeballs. This mess will come around on the companies that left the U.S. as well. We stop buying and not only do they go under- the infrastructure that they had here is lost to them. Often now owned by foreign interests. Failed policy. Now we have someone putting himself in position to invest in us the American worker and you say oh bad. "
BIGDAR wrote on Oct 28, 2008 4:16 PM:
" I grew up in the area and while I know longer live there, I do visit often and have family living there. I have watched all the mill closures over the last several years and wondered if anything was being done to try and draw new industries to the area. Do they have people out trying to recruit new businesses that pay a decent family wage? These days, you must get the word out that you would like companies to locate and give them reasons to come to your town, whether that be in the form of tax credits or whatever. I would certainly think having a port right there would help but I am not a professional recruiter and do not claim to have all the answers. I do know doing nothing but crying the blues and watching the mill closures etc. will solve nothing. "
Mugatu wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:27 AM:
" Why one earth are you blaming the Wollenbergs? I would blame your Union! Your wages sucked the life right out of that company. In what non-union job can you get paid $40K with full Benefits to push a button? When the Wollenbergs owned Fiber I remember several times when the stock holders said to make layoffs, he said NO, even though it meant the company would show a loss for the year. And to top it off...What right do we have to judge his decision to sell the Business his family built. I work for a family owned business that has been opporating on a skeleton crew for the past 6 years to get by, and you are complaining about a large corporation that has to do the same? I feel bad for the people losing their jobs but then again being educated in button pushing doesn't make you very valuable to a business does it? "
S.D.E. wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:46 PM:
" mugatu have you ever heard of automation. the union didnt buy all that automated machinery the company did. most of the jobs there were pretty physical until the company automated everything so dont blame the union or the workers,thank you "
Mugatu wrote on Nov 7, 2008 6:15 AM:
" S.D.E. I would love to blame someone else, but who else could possible be at fault. If they knew the majority of the machinery was automated then why is the union always pushing for their members to get paid more for doing less. 20 years ago, when it was more labor intensive I would agree that the jobs deserved to be paid more, but do they really deserve that much money for being uneducated, sleeping through most of their shifts(I know people that will admit to that), and pushing a button every 10 minutes. Fast food employees do more work than some of these union workers, and they do it for much, much less! When Fiber has to pay its employees rediculous amounts of money to do nothing, what do you think they have to do to their product...they have to sell at an increased price. What happens when the buyer can find it at a cheaper price, don't you think they will go somewhere else? So fiber loses clients, loses money, and finally has to make layoffs because theres not enough work for all its button pushers. So, as far as I can see the Union and its members worked themselves right out of a job. "
bert wrote on Nov 7, 2008 12:12 PM:
" Mugatu: Yes they have automated some of the processes. I remember when they invested in the automation of three digesters. Batch digesters are used to cook wood into pulp. After investing well over a million dollars and over a year to automate they almost immediately decommissioned the digesters. Good investment. Employees are not paid to push a button every 10 minutes. They are paid for their years of experience, knowledge and commitment. Most senior operators can listen and feel the vibration of their equipment and foresee problems before they become disasters. Keeping their equipment running and producing saves the company many millions of dollars. Labor costs, while a cost to the company is a very small portion of the company's cost of producing paper. "
S.D.E. wrote on Nov 8, 2008 9:28 AM:
" "mugatu" automation has effected the entire mill,just think of all of the executives and there secretaries who make more money know than they did 10 years ago and instead of pushing a pencil and filing paper work by hand they sit behind their computor and push all those buttons on their keyboard "
n2news wrote on Nov 9, 2008 11:48 PM:
" Well, lets discuss the facts then.
Its a fact that fibre has been over employeed for a very long time. Both hourly and salaried. Employees were told long ago that quite a few of the machines made no money and some day they would be shut down. Now, everyone is suprised Brookfield pulled the trigger and did what in my eyes should of been done long ago. But I am sure if you owned fibre you would keep everyone employeed? LOL I doubt it. Say what you want peeps, its a long time coming. This is business. Of course Brookfield is going to sell it in the future. And who wouldnt? Brookfield got a good deal and they are going to capitalize on it. So get over it and move on. There IS life after Fibre! n2news "
Its a fact that fibre has been over employeed for a very long time. Both hourly and salaried. Employees were told long ago that quite a few of the machines made no money and some day they would be shut down. Now, everyone is suprised Brookfield pulled the trigger and did what in my eyes should of been done long ago. But I am sure if you owned fibre you would keep everyone employeed? LOL I doubt it. Say what you want peeps, its a long time coming. This is business. Of course Brookfield is going to sell it in the future. And who wouldnt? Brookfield got a good deal and they are going to capitalize on it. So get over it and move on. There IS life after Fibre! n2news "
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