Story Photos
 Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., talk during the presidential debate Wednesday at Hofstra University in Hempstead, N.Y. Gary Hershorn / The Associated Press
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McCain, Obama stage lively third debate
Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:11 PM PDT
By Mark Z. Barabak and Seema Mehta
Los Angeles Times
Printable version
E-mail this articleHEMPSTEAD, N.Y. — A pugnacious John McCain repeatedly questioned the character and veracity of Barack Obama on Wednesday night, portraying the Democrat as an extremist in both his policies and choice of personal associates. Obama parried in their final presidential debate by suggesting that the Republican was more focused on attacks than addressing Americans' concerns.
The 90-minute session was by far the liveliest and most caustic encounter between the two men. It was not immediately evident, however, whether, anything occurred at Hoftra University to change the fundamental dynamic of the race, which appears to favor Obama with less than three weeks until Election Day.
McCain was the aggressor from the start. The Arizona senator sought to distance himself from the unpopular White House incumbent more explicitly than ever, using a line he apparently rehearsed. "If you wanted to run against President Bush," McCain told Obama, "you should have run four years ago."
Undeterred, Obama responded, "If I've occasionally mistaken your policies for George Bush's policies, it's because on the core economic issues that matter to the American people -- on tax policy, on energy policy, on spending priorities — you have been a vigorous supporter of President Bush."
McCain cited differences with fellow Republicans on spending and other issues, challenging Obama to cite where he had broken with Democrats. The Illinois senator said the first major bill he backed in Washington was to limit lawsuits, "which wasn't very popular with trial lawyers," a major Democratic constituency. He noted he also had differed with Democrats on education and environmental policies.
"Senator Obama," McCain responded dryly, "your argument for standing up to the leaders of your party isn't very convincing."
But the night's most vigorous exchanges involved a cast of the campaign's walk-on characters.
Asked about the race's increasingly nasty tone, McCain cited remarks made last weekend by Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., a hero of the civil-rights movement. Lewis expressed concern about the slurs used by some McCain supporters and invoked Alabama's segregationist governor, the late George Wallace.
McCain called Lewis' comments "very unfair and totally inappropriate," and he chided Obama for not repudiating them. "Every time there's been an out-of-bounds remark made by a Republican, no matter where they are, I have repudiated them," McCain said.
Obama said Lewis was concerned that at some GOP rallies McCain supporters shouted "things like 'terrorist' and 'kill him' and that your running mate ... didn't stop, didn't say, 'Hold on a second, that's kind of out of line.' And I think Congressman Lewis' point was that we have to be careful about how we deal with our supporters."
That said, Obama noted he immediately disassociated himself from Lewis' comment, adding, "I think the American people are less interested in our hurt feelings during the course of the campaign than addressing the issues that matter to them so deeply."
McCain, however, persisted. Moments later, he demanded to know the extent of Obama's relationship with William Ayers, a Vietnam-era radical, and ACORN, a left-leaning organization accused of voter-registration fraud. "All of these things need to be examined," McCain said.
Obama said his connections to ACORN were limited to work he did as an attorney in Illinois working to implement the law that allowed people to register to vote at the same time they registered their cars.
Ayers helped found the Weather Underground, a group that planned a series of bombings to protest the Vietnam war. Decades later, Obama and Ayers, now a University of Illinois professor, served on an education reform board in Chicago. "Mr. Ayers is not involved in my campaign," said Obama, after condemning his violent past. "He has never been involved in this campaign. And he will not advise me in the White House.
"I think the fact that this has become such an important part of your campaign, Senator McCain, says more about your campaign than it says about me," Obama said.
"My campaign is about getting this economy back on track, about creating jobs, about a brighter future for America," McCain replied, to Obama's evident disdain.
Several TV networks broadcast the debate, moderated by CBS' Bob Schieffer, in split screen and it showed a striking contrast in demeanor. Obama laughed derisively during several of McCain's attacks but otherwise remained composed. McCain sighed, smirked and rolled his eyes during several of Obama's responses.
McCain suggested that Obama had stepped to the political fringe by failing to take a position on a late-term abortion ban in the Illinois Senate and for opposing a measure that would provide medical attention to a child born of a failed abortion. "I don't know how you align yourself with the extreme aspect of the pro-abortion movement in America ... in direct contradiction to the feelings and views of mainstream America," McCain said.
Obama said the medical-attention bill would have undercut the Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion, and there was an existing statute that required such care. He said he voted against the late-term abortion ban because it did not include an exception in case the mother's health was in jeopardy.
McCain also suggested that Obama was outside the political mainstream on energy when Schieffer pressed each candidate to specify how much he could reduce foreign oil imports. McCain said he could eliminate dependence on Mideast and Venezuelan oil in four years by embarking on an aggressive program to start building dozens of nuclear power plants. He assailed Obama for siding with "extreme environmentalists" who say "it has to be safe."
Obama suggested it would take 10 years to stop oil imports from the Mideast or Venezuela. He also said the country should "look at offshore drilling," prompting a tart response from McCain. "I admire so much Senator Obama's eloquence," McCain said. "And you really have to pay attention to words. He said we will look at offshore drilling. Did you get that? Look."
The two again differed over taxes, McCain asserting Obama would raise them and penalize working Americans like Joe the Plumber, a man Obama met over the weekend while canvassing a neighborhood in Ohio. Obama reiterated that he would cut taxes for 95 percent of Americans, raising them only on families making more than $250,000 a year and exempting small-business owners. "
In his closing statement, McCain again raised the question of whether Americans could trust Obama by implying the Democrat's record was not as well known as his performance as reformer on issues from the 9/11 commission to his push for lowering government spending. "America needs a new direction," he said, underscoring his break from Bush. "We cannot be satisfied with what we've been doing for the last eight years."
Obama, who like McCain looked directly into the camera in his closing statement, hammered his central theme that electing McCain would amount to an extension of the incumbent's policies. He said, "The biggest risk we could take right now is to adopt the same failed policies and the same failed politics that we've seen over the last eight years and somehow expect a different result."
Barabak reported from San Francisco and Mehta from Hempstead, N.Y. Staff writers Michael Finnegan and Maeve Reston contributed to this report.
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JD Hogg wrote on Oct 15, 2008 9:40 PM:
" Obama is a joke....he is the worst possible candidate the Democrats coulda picked....sure, he speaks well, is charismatic, and I'd probably think he was a nice guy if I met him on the street....but would I put him in charge of the most powerful military on the planet? Hell NO! "
Billy Hill wrote on Oct 16, 2008 12:17 AM:
" Dont like GW? Just wait until Harry, Nancy and BHO get done "spreading the wealth around"....you will be begging for "the way it used to be". "
famlyman wrote on Oct 16, 2008 4:51 AM:
" Are you kidding me? McCain sat there all night trying to bash Obama and didn't make a single point. Then, when he did want to make a point he couldn't remember the question. Do you really think that all the president does is control the most powerful military in the world? At the rate this country is going we won't be able to afford a military period. We can't let this republican party finish destroying our country! It is time for change! OBAMA is change! "
former chinook wrote on Oct 16, 2008 6:22 AM:
" JD Hogg-I couldn't agree with you more! A Presidency is not run on good looks and charisma. Obama didn't even know half of the things he was talking about. We think economy is bad now, just wait until Obama is in! Everything will be government run. Like we need more of that! And without out our military... We are DOOMED! If he is chosen, I hope people prepare for hell on earth.... "
pangborn wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:07 AM:
" Old John is the worst candidate ever. He should never be in charge of anything.
Old John is worse than a joke. He is real. He is a danger to himself and to all others. He isn't fit to be president. "
Old John is worse than a joke. He is real. He is a danger to himself and to all others. He isn't fit to be president. "
Kalama Dude wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:15 AM:
" Good Morning President Obama! Even the Foxs News panel and poll had Obama winning this debate. That is amazing, but the facts speak for themselves. Comment overheard at the next Governors Conference: Good Morning Governor Gregoire; well good morning Governor Palin; qne how are you doing this fine day? Oh not bad, at least I can still see Russia from my house, and did you hear I am a new Grandma? Read it and whine Bad Boy et all. These races are over and done with PERIOD "
Kalama Dude wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:16 AM:
" Don't matter JD Hogg what you think; you have one vote and one vote only and this time around you and all your six pack friends won't matter one lick. The races are in the book, you can count on it. Good Morning President Obama! "
rainbird wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:29 AM:
" Re: JD Hogg-It's sad to think you can only think of this election as a someone to put in "charge of the most powerful military on the planet." What do you think is going to pay those soldiers and fuel those machines when the country is bankrupt? This type of mentality needs to go the way of the do-do bird. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:30 AM:
" Obama's plan to fix the economy is to spend our way out of it, he has already proposed close to one trillion dollars of new spending, now he wants to add three hundred billion more in another stimulus package. Who is going to pay for it?? Right now 40% of the people don't pay income taxes, and he wants to give 95% of the population a tax break! If you want to keep American jobs in this country you need to lower the taxes to the companies that provide those jobs, right now the tax rate for them is 35% the second highest in the world, no wonder it is cheaper to sent our jobs to other countries, companies can not compete and profit by keeping jobs in the USA paying that much. And I still did not hear one program that Obama would cut to balance the budget! "
agro_vader wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:32 AM:
" Hey Mccain! Nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah, hey hey hey, GOODBYE!!!! "
cocolisa wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:37 AM:
" Well MR. JD Hogg your comments are the joke and are so not worth even talking about all I have to say is thank god the rest of the world doesnt feel the way you do and Obama is and will be the nest President of the U.S.A. so better get used to it!!!
Its time for a change!!!!!!!!! "
Its time for a change!!!!!!!!! "
AmericanGirl wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:40 AM:
" Oh yes please Obama take what you want from my pay and give to those who chose not to better themselves,Kinda like spanking the good kid don't you think. I can see me telling my kids one who chose to pop out kids and suck off the state and the other who went to school and got educated that they must help support the other.Yeah Right. "
agro_vader wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:41 AM:
" I'm so excited that Obama is going to be the next president so our economy can finally flourish! Quit spending our dollars on a pointless "war" and get our troops out safely. "
agro_vader wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:44 AM:
" Have any of you Right-Wing wackos heard the saying "It takes money to make money"? Well that's exactly the democratic way of thinking. Dems take the money and pump it back into the system to create more jobs and more overall wealth for the country. Repubs take less money than the Dems and only pump it back into the rich. You can argue all you want, but history speaks for itself. "
agro_vader wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:47 AM:
" To AmericanGirl - I highly doubt you are in the income range that Obama will be taking the tax money from (250k and higher). So to say Obama is taking YOUR money is ignorant. "
AmericanGirl wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:48 AM:
" If the dems take the money and put it back it the system what in the world has your dem tax Queen Gov done with Washington's money?? "
AmericanGirl wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:50 AM:
" TO agro_vader For you to assume how much money I make or have is IGNORANT. "
agro_vader wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:51 AM:
" She's been trying to bailout the state from the horrible mess that good ole Bush got us into. It's hard for people in the state to spend money they don't have because of Bush's failed policies. "
AmericanGirl wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:02 AM:
" That has nothing to do with Bush It has everything to do with the dems being in control of this state for the past 23 years Bush has only been in office for 8 of those so whose fault was it before? "
Rocko wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:03 AM:
" What a joke! That was one of the worst debates I have ever heard. They were like two High school kids Bashing it out. It was a waste of time. Not one point made. I've heard better debates from my two 19 year old sons. I was very disapointed. I was undecided before this debate. Now after the debate I'm not only undecided but I'm more confused, disapointed and still scratching my head trying to figure out what the Hell just took place. "
No Nickname wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:14 AM:
" American Girl: Your sith lord has you convinced Obama is raising taxes on everyone. That shows ignorance. Independent parties have investigated BOTH of their plans. Go to Obama's site and read it. I assume you can. "
No Nickname wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:20 AM:
" And a point of "tax queen" Gregoire. The only real tax increases has been on gas and cigarettes/alcohol. The gas tax being the most controversial. Guess what? Roads here have been improved, being improved, and we have a new bridge. I dont think that money is being wasted. Two problems I have with Rossi: he wants to disguise his party affiliation (even though most people are smart enough to see through it), and his campaign signs "Don't Let Seattle Steal This Election" is bull. King County has over 20% of the states population - of course it has an impact on elections - they aren't "stealing it". I am a Democrat but I will vote for Republicans if they have a decent platform, and make good choices. For me, Rossi isn't it, and John McCain no way in hell gets my vote. And Sarah "I did nothing wrong" (even though she did) Palin can go back to Alaska November 5th. "
viper wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:24 AM:
" well I can't see voteing for somone that only runs and hide from a problem like with his pastor is this the job he's going to do in office run and hide everytime something faces him ?or play the race card when ever he faces a problem he can't handle .all in all i'm tired of it there is no good choice but Mc cain is the better of the two choices we have only because he has military experance with us being in 2 wars and maybe 3 if bush gets his way , at least Mccain would be faster at getting our pows back home as soon as possiable and he does have incite into the military where as Obama has none he would only have to go by what someone else tells him to be true, we already have a puppet in office do we really need another one more thing he can't handle criticism and this is the most criticized job in the world Mc Cain is the lesser of the two evils obama want to spend money we don't have and where does he plan to get it ? more taxes ? think we got problems now wait till Obama is in office .and as history has taught us they never do what they say when running for office it is soon forgotten when they get the job "
Happy Camper wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:30 AM:
" Agro_vader - Could you explain to me the rationale for taking money from people only to give it back as a form of economic stimulus? Seems to me common sense would dictate that you not take it from them in the first place. And all those rich people you talk about...they're the ones that own the businesses that create more jobs. Take there money and you might just end up in the unemployment line. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:35 AM:
" agro_vader-"It's hard for people in the state to spend money they don't have", What do you think helped get us into this mess? People spending more than they have, the state of Washington spending more then they had, and now the Federal government spending more than they had. People and Governments need to stop spending more then they make, period!! "
grandfolks wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:44 AM:
" all i can say is go obama. as an oldster i am tired of the same old line the pockets of rich people "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:48 AM:
" Well comrades, Welcome to the U.S.S.A. The United Socialist State of America, socialized health, welfare, government owning private banks, government buying your mortgages, redistribution of wealth, 40% of the population no longer paying taxes and now getting a check from the government,government dictating how much a company is allowed to profit(wind fall profit tax), government dictating how much you can make (C.E.O. pay). People need to figure out what is going to happen if Obama gets elected. Soviet Leader Khrushchev said.
You Americans are so gullible. No, you wont accept communism out right, but well keep feeding you small doses of socialism until youll finally wake up and find you already have communism. We wont have to fight you. Well so weaken your economy until you fall like over-ripe fruit into our hands. "
You Americans are so gullible. No, you wont accept communism out right, but well keep feeding you small doses of socialism until youll finally wake up and find you already have communism. We wont have to fight you. Well so weaken your economy until you fall like over-ripe fruit into our hands. "
Kalama Dude wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:53 AM:
" Acorn this or Acorn that. Check out www.snopes.com and realize that going after Acorn and Obama makes the McCain campaign and anyone who openly supports him look more the fool than they might already be. When Palin doesn't push back at a rally against the "Kill Him" crowd it only makes the poor decision to put her on the ticket even more suspect. Let's hope when she does go back to Alaska and faces her accusers and her 40% down from a very recent 83% approval rating, that she gets hers and we never have to hear of her sorry pop culture 15 minutes ever again, except to maybe report that she has become a Grandma for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd time before she turns 50. "
Kalama Dude wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:56 AM:
" Before some of you whine yourself into poor health or work performance, explain why you and the rest of us weren't in a better place in the late 90's, with a surplus and reasonable world respect and peace. You can't and you know it and this is over and you know that too. Those comments last week by McCain trying to calm down the "Kill Him" crowd at the rally sure sounded like a gold plated concession speach to me and most of the national media. His performance last night was fine, but certainly wasn't the slam dunk that he needed and frankly promised us. Save us all the trouble McSame and concede now or replace Palin like you should have a month ago; it is your only option left!
Good Morning President Obama! "
Good Morning President Obama! "
DW wrote on Oct 16, 2008 9:02 AM:
" I'm gonna say something here that TDN probably won't post, but here goes. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO WINS THE ELECTION, OUR GOVERNMENT HAS SOLD US OUT!! There will be little difference in McCain or Obama Presidency. Their hands are tied. Obama will have to continue with military action in the middle east. If he is elected, I would love to be a fly on the wall when the joint cheifs of staff sit him down and tell him like it really is. No matter who is President your taxes are going up. A country cannot borrow the kind of money we are borrowing without repercussions. The government has socialized our monitary system, but that should make some of you loonie lefties pretty happy. Only thing is the rich pay most of the revenue to the feds, so guess what folks. They are coming after the rest of us like a vulture that hasn't eaten in months. Government by the people for the people is a myth now. WE the people have let our government become a gigantic beaucratic monster that no one person will be able to tame. I hope you loonie lefties got what you wanted. We will have a socialist government no matter who is elected. McCain won't be able to change it and Obama will just push it along a little faster. I hope all you dolts are happy now. "
Local Yokel wrote on Oct 16, 2008 9:07 AM:
" Have any of you looked at Canada lately? All of those who criticized their "socialistic" approached should look into their banks, their economic stability and their jobs right now when the rest of the "free" world is economically crumbling. WAKE UP already. The alarm has been going off now for 28 years - although we hit the snooze for 8 of those years. Canada is well insulated from the meltdown primarily BECAUSE of their heavy regulations. Their people are building tent cities like the ones in Seattle right now. I don't care which side of the polarized political spectrum you are on right now. It IS the economy, st-pid! "
agro_vader wrote on Oct 16, 2008 9:09 AM:
" kalama river resident - You have helped me to see the error in my theory. I want to thank you for opening my eyes. I have completely turned around and now will vote for Mccain and Rossi. Thank you for this. "
i want the truth wrote on Oct 16, 2008 9:45 AM:
" From kalama river resident: "Right now 40% of the people don't pay income taxes, and he wants to give 95% of the population a tax break! If you want to keep American jobs in this country you need to lower the taxes to the companies that provide those jobs, right now the tax rate for them is 35% the second highest in the world, no wonder it is cheaper to sent our jobs to other countries, companies can not compete and profit by keeping jobs in the USA paying that much." First off, Obama is going to lower taxes for 95% of Americans that already PAY taxes, so that has absolutely no bearing on the number of Americans who do not pay taxes. That is a completely separate issue. As for companies sending jobs overseas, the tax rate has little or nothing to do with this. Jobs are shipped overseas because the cost of labor is so much lower. US companies have to pay income taxes regardless of where they manufacture/produce their goods. So technically, cutting costs by moving some operations overseas actually INCREASES their tax burden because it allows them to make a greater profit. I just wanted to point out the error in your argument there. Misinformation is, I think, why so many Americans still support McCain or any other Republican for that matter. That is part of their strategy. Muddy the waters just enough so that average voters are confused as to what the real issues are. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 16, 2008 9:49 AM:
" agro_vader-vote the way you want to vote, I am just trying to point out what is really going on, the media seems oblivious to report, but this has been transforming for many years, and with Obama in the white house will only accelerate the process to communism. you cannot dispute what our government has done already and what Obama proposes, we have been duped by our government, McCain, not my favorite choice is the only realistic candidate to stop spending, and until that happens government has to much control over the people, let the people make their own decisions, not the government. that just makes the government too powerful, to dictate who gets what, when, and how! My favorite choice for president would be Ron Paul, he understands the value of protecting the dollar and how these deficits are destroying it, and the need for less government, not more!! "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 16, 2008 9:56 AM:
" DW, your right on to what is happening!!It's just McCain has the best chance of reducing spending, that is why I'll vote republician :) "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 16, 2008 10:17 AM:
" i want the truth- companies employing people in the united states have to pay social security taxes, unemployment taxes, and workers compensation taxes on those employees. They don't have to pay those across the border! so lowering the tax rate they pay, will enable them to keep more jobs in this country! How can you lower the taxes of people that don't pay taxes?, you give them tax credits, that means the government is going to pay you. What incentive is there for people to better themselves, when the government rewards those that that do the least, and penalizes those that succeeds!! "
DW wrote on Oct 16, 2008 10:19 AM:
" I will say one thing about "Oh Canada", Local Yokel, they at least have a very strict immigrantion policy unlike us. They don't let millions of illegals come in and drain there government with all the so called free health care and wellfare programs. Also, they have somehow put the enviros in their place and they expliot their natural resources to the max..Canada is the #1 importer of oil to the U.S.A.R.(United Socialist American Republic). And to agro_vader I'm gland you got what you wanted. Do you have a large red star and sickle flag hanging from your house now? Are you going to kick in an extra 30 or 40 percent of your income to the Kremlin in D.C. now? Are you going to believe every word of your soon to be Czar Barak Hussein Obama? Will you have large pictures of the chosen one on your house along with your star and sickle flag? Will you follow the Messiah to the gallows if he commands you to give up your freedoms for the good of the motherland? Just wondering? "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 16, 2008 10:34 AM:
" DW, if you get the time, copy and paste this in your brower, It is really good! I promise:) http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=Ecq-A0CrP0o "
Kem Cho wrote on Oct 16, 2008 11:00 AM:
" It is pretty simple. If you want your President to be a slick great debator, vote for Obama. If you want Pelosi, Reid running all over Obama, vote for Obama.
If you discount past associations of Obama, vote for him. When 40% of Tax payers do not pay any income tax, how can Obama says he will reduce taxes on 95% of the people. I believe he will be passing checks to people who do not pay any tax. Back to welfare state?
This country has always run better with split government. "
If you discount past associations of Obama, vote for him. When 40% of Tax payers do not pay any income tax, how can Obama says he will reduce taxes on 95% of the people. I believe he will be passing checks to people who do not pay any tax. Back to welfare state?
This country has always run better with split government. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 16, 2008 11:00 AM:
" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecq-A0CrP0o the one I pasted did'nt work thy this "
Atrucker wrote on Oct 16, 2008 11:47 AM:
" First off income tax is illegal and has been for years. It was never ratified in the constitution of the united states or ammended. yet we still pay it. The fed reserve was set up by bankers to create debt , not make it easier on any one . The bankers caused the stock market mess , and I am sure they have a reason for it .
They have caused wars and depressions for money.
Do they care how many people get killed, not really.
The President runs nothing . They do what they are told , by the big money people . If you think it is any diffrent , just go looking , you will find stuff that will scare the hell out of you. If you think no child left behind is good or home land security is , nothing could be further from the truth. Stop watching T.V for a week and see how your mood and mind changes.
Then tell me I am full of it . It is there to bring you pleasure, 24 hrs a day. So you do not know how hard your being taken. The new world order is here . "
They have caused wars and depressions for money.
Do they care how many people get killed, not really.
The President runs nothing . They do what they are told , by the big money people . If you think it is any diffrent , just go looking , you will find stuff that will scare the hell out of you. If you think no child left behind is good or home land security is , nothing could be further from the truth. Stop watching T.V for a week and see how your mood and mind changes.
Then tell me I am full of it . It is there to bring you pleasure, 24 hrs a day. So you do not know how hard your being taken. The new world order is here . "
Kalama Dude wrote on Oct 16, 2008 11:48 AM:
" Yea for Agro Vader another useless and uncessary vote for the losing ticket in 19 days. You and all your six pack friends can go get 100 more just like you to actualy vote and it won't make a darn bit of difference, especially in the President Obama race because McSame wasn't ever going to win this state anyway and you all know that know very well. When Johnny loses Indiana for the GOP for first time in decades you can all switch over to the Poker Tournament because it will be officially over and so will Dino the Rossi. Let me say it once again for anyone no matter you support, it is my goal of saving you anymore heartache and time, WHEN PRESIDENT OBAMA WINS INDIANA THE RACE WILL BE OFFICIALLY OVER PERIOD. No other state will even matter due to the historical significance this one normally GOP state. Got it? And if TDN Whiner Boy would finally show up and Man up, then we could maybe try to explain it to him as well. But clearly he is hung over today meaning when and if he does show himself, it will be another cut and paste name calling session all over again. Name calling is fine when you have a prayer of winning, but alas that won't be the case for the GOP this go around. Good luck though! "
cheney119 wrote on Oct 16, 2008 11:57 AM:
" All you conservatives that are whining and moaning and pontificating about the future better get used to 8 years of President Barrack Obama, because this race is OVER, not that it was ever very close. Survey USA has Washington State at 56% to 40% in their 10/13 poll, that's 9% more than the margin of error. People can't stand the negitive campaign the McCain is running and you negitive jerks just seem to thrive upon. Good people want something to vote for, not vote against, but that's all you republicans know how to do, stupid negitive attacks. That's the reason Rossi will lose again as well. He's not for anything either as far as I can tell. "
Billy Hill wrote on Oct 16, 2008 12:32 PM:
" cheney119, keep voting yourself goodies, be sure and get as much as you can as quickly as you can from "the rich" because eventually they will find ways to keep their money away from you, BHO, Nancy and Harry "the war is lost" Reid. The quicker this country is bankrupt the quicker it can recover so spend, spend, spend away......... "
i want the truth wrote on Oct 16, 2008 12:45 PM:
" kalama river resident: "companies employing people in the united states have to pay social security taxes, unemployment taxes, and workers compensation taxes on those employees. They don't have to pay those across the border! so lowering the tax rate they pay, will enable them to keep more jobs in this country! How can you lower the taxes of people that don't pay taxes?, you give them tax credits, that means the government is going to pay you. What incentive is there for people to better themselves, when the government rewards those that that do the least, and penalizes those that succeeds!!" OK, you're talking about 2 different types of taxes here, so I'll try this again. The ONLY reason companies send jobs overseas is to save on the cost of labor, which is their #1 controllable expense. Domestic based companies, whether they have plants in China or Honduras or wherever, have to pay income taxes on ALL earned income. Employment taxes (FICA, FUTA, etc) have absolutely no bearing on their decision. As for people who pay no taxes getting tax credits, by definition if you don't pay taxes, you don't file a return, and therefore are ineligible to claim a tax credit. Tax credits go to everyone, and big businesses and the wealthy typically are able to claim more credits AND deductions than the majority of Americans. "
biasmedia wrote on Oct 16, 2008 12:53 PM:
" agro_vader better stop drinking that koll-aid that your are the reason we are in this crash is because of dem and - rep not just bush peole like barny frank a dem who was sleeping with someone from fanny may when they where telling us everything is fine when its not or like mr dobbs who had a ilegeal deal with citi corps so theres more then enough blam to bass on so stop your paternalism nonsense
and look at facts "
and look at facts "
AmericanGirl wrote on Oct 16, 2008 1:15 PM:
" Sounds like most not all but most dems should move to Cuba, They will tell you what to do day by day and of course how to spend your money. If you have worked for your money no matter how much you have you don't owe anyone anything. It sounds like all the dems that are all for Obama stand to collect a free check from the workers of America. "
Cheney119 wrote on Oct 16, 2008 1:28 PM:
" Billy Hill when president bush came into office the nation debt was $5 trillion now it has more than doubled to over $10 trillion. Do you really want to talk about excessive spending? Your president cut taxes while fighting two wars, which has never been done before and we are just seeing how that's working out. I'll bet President Obama does a better job than Bush in every conceivable way. I base this observation on his superior intellect and his decision making ability, which appears very deliberate and extremely well informed and based on a concensus of a wide variety of opinions. You see Billy those are facts, I don't see any of those pesky facts in any of your posts, just your opinion that you base on God knows what. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 16, 2008 1:36 PM:
" I want the truth- Wrong, For most people if you are single you must file if your gross income was at least $8,750. If married filing jointly $17,500. A full 50% of the people who do not have to file actually get money back by doing so! Even if you do not have to file, you should file to get money back if Federal Income Tax was withheld from your pay, or you qualify for a refundable credit that may give you a refund even if you do not owe any tax. Refundable credits include: Earned Income Tax Credit. Additional Child Tax Credit.Individuals who might not otherwise be required to file a 2007 tax return will need to file a return this year to receive an economic stimulus payment.-this was pasted directly from the I.R.S. website. Secondly, when companies send jobs overseas, they do not own plants or control the employees, they sub-contract to companies that operate in foreign countries. As far to as why, I agree with you, It is cheaper to have widgets built out of country because all those taxes you listed double the cost of the employer. The government is going to get their money either way, so why not lower their taxes so they can afford to keep jobs here. If NAFTA would work as they originally envisioned it, they would be far fewer jobs being exported! "
agro_vader wrote on Oct 16, 2008 1:48 PM:
" Maybe we should send Iraq a bill for all of the damage that it's done to our country and then we can sue them for emotional distress too. I really should run for President with these great ideas. I'd run republican though because I'm greedy. "
DW wrote on Oct 16, 2008 2:09 PM:
" PSSSTT Hey Cheney119, your democratic congress just spent a TRILLION dollars in the last week. Not even President George Walker Bush could spend that kind of money on his own. Also, you, your kids, your grandkids, and their families will be stuck with this forever. Barak Hussein Obama will push us further into socialism. Are you happy now?? How about some more republican hate speech.....we never seem to get enough from you cheney119 "
Kalama Dude wrote on Oct 16, 2008 2:28 PM:
" You folks can say all you want but in 19 days it won't matter because you will have to wait 4 years to get it fixed the way you think you want it. Good Morning President Obama! Dino the Rossi will be able to go back to beach too around that time, so no sense worrying yourself about it anymore. Good luck though! "
Rainier Dad wrote on Oct 16, 2008 2:47 PM:
" The Obama crowd makes me ill. I just figure the ones spewing the lines like 'you have one vote and one vote only and this time around you and all your six pack friends won't matter one lick. The races are in the book, you can count on it. Good Morning President Obama!' are the lazy ones who are GLAD a president will finally take wealth from the hard workers and share it with the lazy ones.
After all...why should you have to work hard for your own money? Let someone else do it. "
After all...why should you have to work hard for your own money? Let someone else do it. "
Cheney119 wrote on Oct 16, 2008 3:00 PM:
" your democratic congress, don't you mean Secretary Paulson and the Bush Administration, weren't all these bailouts their proposals? Didn't they have to add $150 billion in sweeteners to get republican votes? Facts man, please attempt to stick to the facts. Socialism is just a word. The interstate highways are socialist, do you only take the railroads? Most of the great accomplishments of this country have been socialist, Grand Coulee Dam, The Panama Canal, all socalist. I served in the U.S. Navy and got great socialized medical and dental care. Why are you so afraid of socalism, DW you use socialist funded and built things all the time, from utilities to scientific advancesments. Are you in denial or is just a dirty word? "
Rainier Dad wrote on Oct 16, 2008 3:17 PM:
" To all who want to blame Bush for the economic collapse..
New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae
By STEPHEN LABATON
Published: September 11, 2003
The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.
Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.
The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.
Significant details must still be worked out before Congress can approve a bill. Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing.
These two entities Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not facing any kind of financial crisis, said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." "
New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae
By STEPHEN LABATON
Published: September 11, 2003
The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.
Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.
The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.
Significant details must still be worked out before Congress can approve a bill. Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing.
These two entities Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not facing any kind of financial crisis, said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." "
Kalama Dude wrote on Oct 16, 2008 3:29 PM:
" Darn right we are Rainier Dad. About time we reversed some of the huge tax cuts Heir Bush has put in place for his friends and their billion dollar no bid Iraqi contracts. Keep whining all you want McSamiacs because the people will have spoken, your minority can go back into the basement and we will get back the prosperity we had under Clinton. In the end unless you are super rich, you will be very happy with the results. Six packs and Mavericks go back to work and back to woods, because you apparently will be much happier there. Good luck though!!!!! "
J. A. Long wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:24 PM:
" The Republicans are doing it again: trying to win by any means, including, but not limited to, out-right lies, baseless attacks, fear-mongering, and saying everything nasty and whorish. But actually having any real answers. . . . well, here they go again.
After seeing the final debate last night it looks to me as though McCain may well be suffering from serious mental and emotional problems. "
After seeing the final debate last night it looks to me as though McCain may well be suffering from serious mental and emotional problems. "
sleepless wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:25 PM:
" I don't understand why there are still people out there who are willing to defend Bush...now he is the president for the last 8 years and he had the republican congress and the senate on his side for 6 years, yet some insist on blaming the democrates..
and DW this trillion dollars you are talking about got the blessing of John McCain and Bush ok? so it is not just the democrates "
and DW this trillion dollars you are talking about got the blessing of John McCain and Bush ok? so it is not just the democrates "
pangborn wrote on Oct 16, 2008 11:38 PM:
" Its time for the right wing crackpots to crawl back under their slimey rocks. "
Kalama Dude wrote on Oct 17, 2008 8:15 AM:
" Amen and it would appear our wonderful TDN Whiner Crack Pot has done just that! Did you hear that a major bookie in Ireland is paying off Obama betters as the world knows this election is done and over with? Save us all the trouble McSame and Dino the Rossi and let's start moving on today, and we can all enjoy the great prosperity of the 90's once again. Good luck though! "
DW wrote on Oct 17, 2008 8:43 AM:
" Kalama Dude, we will never see the "prosperity of the 90's" again if we don't stop spending money we don't have. And "sleepless", in Cowblitz county, I am not in favor of these bailouts, and am not a Bushy. We are giving away the treasures of this country and all you libs want to do is elect someone who will just get it done a little faster than McSocialist. ObCommunist, McSocialist, it doesn't really matter at this point. You people are fools to believe this government is "by the people, for the people". It is government that takes from the people, Democins, or Republicrats, they are all theives. And we have no one else to blame but ourselves!!! "
i want the truth wrote on Oct 17, 2008 9:02 AM:
" kalama river resident: where to start...OK you are correct with your figures, but are you going to tell me that individuals who make less than $8,750 per year (a whole $729 per month! - or if it makes it sound better double the amount for joint filers) should pay taxes? Or that God forbid, these people are actually supporting children on that paltry amount should not be eligible for a tax credit? If you honestly believe that then I feel sorry for you. Getting them to pay a 15% tax on this amount ($8,750) would bring in $1,312.50 in tax revenue, but adding only 1% to someone who earns $300,000 would bring in $3,000. Lets face it, our government is in dire need of more revenue even if we cut spending, and the best/only way to increase revenue is to increase taxes. Which of these 2 individuals can better afford this tax? Helping the less fortunate among us is one of the most basic Christian ideals, but for some reason the GOP and the religious right ignore this. Why is that? Now back to the overseas jobs. Whether or not the companies subcontract out does not matter. Lowering income taxes WILL NOT affect their decision to ship jobs overseas. Shipping jobs overseas actually increases their tax burden because their income is greater due to the cost savings from cheap labor. Corporate income tax rates are not the problem here. I'm sorry to have to point that out to you. "
DW wrote on Oct 17, 2008 9:21 AM:
" And Cheney119, I do believe that socialism is wrong. I believe that capitalism works. And just because the government built something doesn't make it a socialist program. A socialist program would something like a comprehensive health care plan like the one Hawaii implemented 8 months ago for children birth to 18 yrs. So building roads, dams, and having health care in the military are not something I consider socialist. Oh by the way, the comprehensive socialist healthcare program for children in Hawaii that was implimented just months ago is out of funding and is being shuttered. Also, in the military, you are considered property of the government, so if you have surgery, and the doc kills you, your family has no recourse except what little the military decides to compensate them. In "Oh Canada", there is a waiting list for most surgeries, esp. major operations. The wealthy go to countries like the United States to get needed treatment. So I guess, Cheney, I would consider socialism a dirty word. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 17, 2008 10:00 AM:
" i want the truth-I do not have a problem with a progressive tax rate. But my point is when you give tax credits to people that do not owe taxes, that is Socialism, the entire comment I posted is how our country has gone from a capitalistic society to a socialistic one. Point two, and I think I have the heads up here, I own manufacturing company and have been in the industry since 1986. A lot of work goes across the border, because of cheap labor, but believe me, we would rather have those parts built here, turn around is much faster(improved cash flow), quality is easier to control and is higher(profit) and shipping cost are ever increasing, it is a balancing act when you deal with foreign companies, but lowering the tax rate will give companies one more positive incentive to keep jobs in the U.S.A.! "
TheGenius wrote on Oct 17, 2008 10:12 AM:
" McCain's best debate of the three, in my opinion. Still left too much in the tank. Had a perfect chance to bury Joe Biden and didn't. Could have brought up any of Joe's gaffes, and there are many, and did not mention anything. Could have pointed out that Biden was one of four senators to vote against federal funding for the Trans-Alaskan pipeline, or brought the diner that's been closed for 20 years that Biden says is where he talks to normal, everyday folks, or if he really wanted to jump on Biden, he would have brought up the whole "When the Great Depression happened, FDR went on TV and told Americans that he was going to take care of them" story. Mind you, I paraphrased that because I don't remember the exact wording, but he said something to that effect. So, yeah, I think McCain screwed up a bit on that one. Regardless, he came out fighting amd it was exactly what he needed to do. As for all the national polls, the only poll that matters is the one on Election Day. I really think this election is going to be a lot closer than anyone on either side cares to admit. This should not be the case. To be truthful, I thought the Democrats would be running away with this thing by now, but they aren't. I think we're finding out Obama isn't a closer. "
DW wrote on Oct 17, 2008 10:19 AM:
" So "i want the truth" here are some more numbers for you to chew on. The top 50% of tax payers pay 96% of federal revenue. The top 5% pay 50% of the revenue, and the top 1% pay 23.6% of tax revenue to the government. Also, when taxes were lowered on the wealthy, the wealthy end up paying a higher percent of the revenue, because, No.1 lower taxes incentivizes economic activity. No.2 more people become weathly when taxes are lower. But on the other side of that when you raise taxes on the wealthy beyond a certain point, that hurts economic activity and kills the incentive to earn more money when so much more is confiscated by the feds. So having said this "i want the truth", can you tell me who you work for? I have an idea that it's not the person on the street corner with a sign that says, "I'm not gonna lie, I need money for booze". You probably work for someone, or a corp. that has money. If you confiscate more money from the rich how does that benefit anyone?? What needs to happen is government needs to be greatly reduced in size and get the hell out of the way of people with great ideas, and let the economy grow. But if we continue to let the gigantic monster that is now the US governemnt grow, we will starve. "
i want the truth wrote on Oct 17, 2008 11:02 AM:
" kalama river resident: I agree with you that everyone, including myself, wants American jobs to stay here. Increases in domestic jobs are one of the best ways to help get our economy going. What I am saying is that the reason they are going overseas is because of the price of labor. Now that shipping costs are getting so out of hand, we're going to start seeing more jobs stay here. Rising shipping costs are nullifying the labor cost effect. Lowering income taxes doesn't provide any incentive for keeping jobs here. It's just not an issue in this instance. "
i want the truth wrote on Oct 17, 2008 11:10 AM:
" DW: I am an accountant so I know a little about the tax code. The problem is when you give tax breaks to the wealthy, history has shown that the money does not "trickle down" to the rest of the economy. It only "trickles down" into their bank accounts. I'm not saying that's evil, it's just human nature. Poorer people typically spend most or all of their money. Reducing their tax burden pumps money directly back into the economy because they generally spend every dime that they get back. The money goes right back to the wealthy through the businesses that they own and then back to the government in the form of more tax revenue. This is especially true in a state like Washington that has a sales tax. It's no secret why all of the recent economic struggles (think of the 80s, the early 2000s, and now) have occurred while a Republican was in office. Reagan's trickle down economics does not work. You have to work from the bottom up. "
DW wrote on Oct 17, 2008 11:33 AM:
" And also, "i want the truth", it isn't so much that labor is cheap oversea's, it's more because the US worker is pricing himself out of the market. Take a look at the auto industry right now. Chevy, Ford, and Crystler will be out of bussiness with-in the next year or so if they cannot find a way to reduce labor and health care costs. That is a fact. The labor unions are pricing the work force out the market and jobs are leaving. Frieghtliner is moving to Mexico because they cannot get any reconciliation from the union. So the American worker, and the unions had better get some reality checks going or there won't be any US manufacturing jobs, and we will quickly become nothing more than a service oriented economy, and that my friends pays a whole lot less than manufacturing. The American manufacturing industry MUST adjust to a global economy, or it will become extinct. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 17, 2008 11:45 AM:
" i want to truth- "Lowering income taxes doesn't provide any incentive for keeping jobs here."- I obvious can tell you do not own or operate any sort of small business, Taxes are killing us, I have to pay unemployment,industrial insurance (L&I), social security on my employees, then every quarter I pay business and occupation tax to the state, personal property tax to the county(equipment). Then every quarter I get to give the I.R.S. more for estimated taxes. If the government would lower taxes that means I have more money left to invest back into my business, The capitol gains tax also needs to be lower, for some reason everybody thinks that most owners just take their profits and keep them for themselves, not true, we all enjoy investing back into our companies,building and expanding, creating more jobs. Those little tax cuts you talk about in themselves do not mean much, but add them all together and you will see many more jobs created here in the U.S.A. "
DW wrote on Oct 17, 2008 3:13 PM:
" Well, "i want the truth", I am for changing the way we confiscate money for the government. First I would scrap the US tax code completely. Then impliment a consumption tax at a flat rate. That would be fair for everyone. From the bottom up as you put it, everyone would pay the same rate. Of course though, the rich would still provide more revenue since they would spend more money, and there wouldn't be a need for the IRS and a far less need for accountants. "
ThereGoesThatTriptoHawaii wrote on Oct 17, 2008 4:43 PM:
" This was a one sided debate. When pressed, Senator Obama defended and justified himself. McCain could offer little more than condescending accusations, and rarely spoke directly about he himself would do. McCain touts himself a "Maverick" who bucks the old-boy system. I wonder how this is possible for a career politician who has flip-flopped his was to the GOP ticket on a number of key issues. Basically, the man favors what is currently fashionable. Hardly a "Maverick". I wonder too how he intends to right the wrongs of a corrupt government that allowed the current economic crisis to evolve when McCain himself was a corroborator to one of the largest invest frauds in U.S. history. And calling into question Obama's character? What about McCain leaving his wife for a beer distributor heiress, or his notoriously violent temper? Though McCain gets people riled up about Obama raising taxes, which is simply not true, the fact remains that each dollar has with it a debt to be repaid to the Federal Reserve Bank. Without taxes to help pay this debt off, the dollar decreases in value and inflation occurs. Obama seeks to raise taxes where they've been mute for too long: the wealthy. "
kalama river resident wrote on Oct 17, 2008 4:52 PM:
" DW- you are going to be putting a whole lot of government employees out of a job. And a few accountants too!!! sounds like the plan Steve Forbes has been talking about. I am all for it ;) less government = more freedom! "
DW wrote on Oct 17, 2008 5:04 PM:
" Well here I go again, GDI, theregoesthattriptohawaii, ANYONE WHO SAYS RAISING TAXES ON THE RICH TO HELP THE ECONOMY IS INSANE!! Cutting taxes and reducing the size of the 800lb. gorilla on our backs (government) is the way to stimulate growth. Letting the Federal Government become intertwined in our economy is a receipe for disaster!! You people seem to almost want the destruction of this country as fast as you can get it!! Good GOD, for heavens sake, stop with the kool-aid. "
ThereGoesThatTriptoHawaii wrote on Oct 20, 2008 10:45 AM:
" The tax on a new BMW is greater than the tax on an '89 Corolla, but why, for so long, have those who have had to scrimp and save for the Corolla been subject to paying higher taxes than those who have a fleet of BMWs? Without taxes, the value of the dollar bill decreases even further, and the debt (which is owed to a non-government entity) attached to each bill goes unpaid. Trickle-Down economics simply does not work. I don't think it's that I want the destruction of this country so much as I would like things to change and be fair. Incidentally, my favorite kind of Kool-Aid is Oh-Yeah Orange. "
DW wrote on Oct 21, 2008 7:35 AM:
" theregoesthattriptohawaii, I thought it was grape kool-aid? The rich pay the most taxes in this country. The top 1% pay 23.6% of revenue. Can you tell me how that is fair?? You say you don't want the destruction of this country, I seriously think if we elect a socialist markist president, you will feel the pain very quickly. And all you people, and BO, will do is blame the countries problems on someone else. This is completely the fault of the citizens of this country for letting our government grow completely out of control. But I guess that is what you red diaper doper babies wanted anyway. "
ThereGoesThatTriptoHawaii wrote on Oct 21, 2008 1:52 PM:
" I must admit my naivete over you implying how much I love Kool-Aid. At first, I thought you were making a clever reference to Tom Wolff's novel about the Merry Pranksters, and thus you were suggesting I was a drug user (all things considering, I probably am). Now I'm even more troubled about this reference, especially after you corrected me on what my favorite flavor is (thanks for reminding me, by the way - I have a habit of not knowing my own preferences). Right now 'grape kool-aid' is an empty signifier for me in the sphere of political discourse. Could you please clarify your cryptic label? "
ThereGoesThatTriptoHawaii wrote on Oct 21, 2008 2:20 PM:
" I almost squeezed a tear out about the wealthiest 1% paying a quarter of the revenue taxes. How many of the hundreds of millions are these 1% still left with? It's appalling what they have to deal with, isn't it? To recap, Marx's theory was 1) unfinished, 2) completely unrealistic as it was utopian, and 3) misconstrued by those that picked up the thread, and those that were ideological opponents. His chief argument, regardless of political attitude, makes sense: a man's worth should be greater than the work he produces, especially if he cannot afford the very goods or services he produces. Regardless of what history did with that theory (Leninism, for example, which is not Marxism), such a view makes sense where health care is concerned. Health care in the U.S. is a business and not a basic human necessity - this doesn't make any sense. I'm sure this argument will be misconstrued, and I will be labeled a 'Red', which couldn't be further from the truth. Rather, I agree wholeheartedly that absolutes do not exist, especially in political theory. What needs to be acknowledged is that certain ideologies should blend with others to right the wrongs of the past; and that labels and name calling needs to be left at the playground. We should use this type of forum for discussion, to share ideas, to enlighten others as we enlighten ourselves, and not to sling mud. "
ThereGoesThatTriptoHawaii wrote on Oct 21, 2008 4:56 PM:
" I'm also not sure how the people are responsible for allowing this country get out of control. Is it because we assume that the people we put in power will do what's best for us? DW, that type of logic wouldn't work in a household where a parent would say to a child, Son, it's your fault that this family can't balance its checkbook, or, Son, it's your fault that Daddy keeps getting into fights with his neighbor. Funny, I always assumed lobbyists and other special interest groups, lawyers, career politicians, the military industrial complex, and a privatized national bank were each partly responsible. "
harligrl45 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:47 PM:
" I think it's time this country saw a change and I think Obama is the one to do it. McCain ruined any chance he had the minute he chose Palin as his running mate. Palin is a big joke. How she ever got into office in the first place I will never know. If McCain gets into office things will be no better off than having Bush in there if not worse. Bush has ruined our economy, given time I think Obama is the one that will turn our country around. "
Rainier Dad wrote on Oct 23, 2008 3:20 PM:
" I WON'T vote Obama for a very specific reason. I have a cousin who sits on her couch and does NOTHING all day long. She is perfectly able to work. I went to one of her 4 childrens birthday parties this weekend and got to listen to her and 5 of her other "welfare" friends talk about how much they want Obama to win. They say they want some extra money to "trickle" their way. They also want their "bonus" check at tax season. I get sick when I think about giving LAZY couch potatoes a raise. I DON'T think she deserves a house. But Obama's plan is to "Spread the wealth"... WHY ???? ... If she wanted a house and a better life she could have worked her rear off like I did. As far as the economy. BUSH isn't the reason for our woes right now. If the DEMS (including Obama) had listened to BUSH back in 2001, we would have regulated Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. It almost seems the DEMS planned it out like this. Don't allow regulations on the lending institutions and then when the economy collapses (under BUSH'S watch) we'll blame him.
For the record. In the last 8 years i have bought 2 new cars, bought my daughter a used car, built a beautiful house, and put some money in savings...Guess the economy isn't so bad after all. "
For the record. In the last 8 years i have bought 2 new cars, bought my daughter a used car, built a beautiful house, and put some money in savings...Guess the economy isn't so bad after all. "
ThereGoesThatTriptoHawaii wrote on Oct 23, 2008 5:24 PM:
" It's too bad that there are those that abuse the system. But, in reality, the welfare system doesn't work. These people are not living lavishly - far from it. The added benefits they would receive would be paltry, but it might be a godsend for those that can't afford multiple houses or cars. Knee-jerk reaction: get a job. OK, but what is the minimum wage minimum for? Because, let's face it, if you're on welfare, it's probably not because you are having a hard time finding work in the medical field, or are not adjusting to your new career as a lawyer. Work full-time at Wal-Mart, or Taco Bell, and guess what - still ain't getting multiple houses or cars. In reality, there are more people that qualify for financial aid who do not even apply. Yes, there are those who are lazy, but there are many more who do not have the same opportunities to advance economically. It takes a village, sir. Love your country and everyone in it. Do not shun any for what they do not have, or what they realistically could never be. "
ThereGoesThatTriptoHawaii wrote on Oct 25, 2008 12:19 AM:
" I'm sorry, sir, but Trickle Down economics has nothing to do with government assistance. It's the idea that if the wealthy have fewer taxes, they will spread their wealth around, be it different business ventures, or whatever, and that their investments will 'trickle down' to those who do not have as much. Like standing under a leafy tree when it rains, and holding your tongue out - hoping to catch a trickle of rain. "
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