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A Cowlitz 2 Fire & Rescue ambulance pulls away from St. John Medical Center. Bill Wagner / Daily News file photo

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Council seeks more time on emergency service decision

Friday, October 3, 2008 9:47 AM PDT

By Amy M.E. Fischer

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Faced with the threat of losing Cowlitz 2 Fire & Rescue's emergency services next week, the Longview City Council on Thursday wrestled over a financial agreement with the rural fire district to prevent gaps in ambulance and paramedic response.

However, some councilmen were angry about the pressure from Cowlitz 2 to make a swift decision. On Sept. 24, Cowlitz 2 sent Longview's mayor a letter saying if the city didn't sign a $202,000 contract for next year's service, Cowlitz 2 would no longer respond to calls in Longview beginning Oct. 10.

In his letter, Cowlitz 2 Fire Chief Dave LaFave wrote, "As you are aware, Cowlitz 2 has in effect been subsidizing the city with paramedic and transport services for many years. We are simply not in a position to continue to do so."

That rankled Councilman Dennis Weber at Thursday night's workshop with the council, Cowlitz 2 and American Medical Response ambulance officials.

"Let's be careful about feeling like we're under a gun," Weber said. "If District 2's going to abandon citizens, that's going to be something they'll have to do. But I don't think we should run into a decision hastily."

The unexpected cost of providing emergency response service would result in cutbacks in other city programs and services, the council said. The council learned recently that the city has a $2.4 million budget shortfall for 2008 and that $2 million must be chopped from the city's preliminary budgets for 2009 and 2010.

Cowlitz 2 Fire Commissioner Jeff Cameron, who also is the city's public works director, said he would bring the council's request for more time to consider the contract details to his board members Wednesday. He said the fire district board decided to send the letter after learning that the Longview council had struck the contract's cost from the city's preliminary 2009 budget during a workshop Sept. 18. That led the fire district to believe the city wasn't interested in continuing its services, he said.

Which, until now, the city has been getting for free.

For years, Cowlitz 2 and the Longview Fire Department have had a mutual aid agreement to back each other up. But the arrangement has become increasingly lopsided, with Cowlitz 2 responding to 1,182 calls in Longview in 2007, and Longview Fire responding to 135 calls in the fire district.

Cowlitz 2 officials want to refocus on providing prompt emergency service to people in their own district, especially with a rising number of calls for service in outlying areas and Lexington. They say it's not fair for their taxpayers to subsidize Longview's fire service so heavily, to the tune of roughly $700,000 a year.

Thursday, Longview Fire Chief Daryl McDaniel proposed the following short-term solutions to the council:

• The city of Longview pays the fire district $202,000 in 2009 and $206,000 in 2010 to maintain the current level of coverage. The cost works out to a fee of $175 per call, based on the 2007 call load.

• Pay AMR, a private ambulance company, $299,000 to add a third ambulance to its fleet that would respond only to 911 calls in Longview.

• Ask AMR to cover the calls in Longview normally handled by Cowlitz 2. The fire district would serve as backup if all AMR units were busy, and Cowlitz 2 would charge the city $175 each time it was dispatched to a Longview EMS call.

LaFave urged the council to choose the last option, saying AMR could step in almost immediately to shoulder Cowlitz 2's calls in Longview.

But even with Cowlitz 2's help, there have been troubling gaps in emergency service. According to McDaniel, about 12 times a month, which amounts to about 6½ hours, no ambulances are available.

Mayor Kurt Anagnostou said he wondered how AMR could handle a potential extra 1,100 calls with just two ambulances, which not only respond to 911 calls but also transport patients between hospitals and nursing homes.

"I have that fear, too," McDaniel said.

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Mrs. Pellwerds wrote on Oct 3, 2008 8:08 AM:

" What exactly do Longview Firefighters do for a $60,000 a year salary? "

Hogwashin wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:05 AM:

" What exactly do Cowlitz 2 Fire Chiefs do for an undisclosed yearly salary plus Duty Chief stipend, medical insurance, retirement plan, free transportation, etc... "

meggiemay wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:26 AM:

" I hope that this passes. I know people are all like "what are the longview fir fighters doing for such and such salary", but there are more firefighters than EMS and not every firefighter is going to know what a posterior hematoma is. "

freezers wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:27 AM:

" well if the daily news would really get it right then there would be no confusion. they longview city council owns the decision of the ambulance service not cowlitz 2, cowlitz 2 needs to look out for the best interest of thier tax paying citizens, and longview should do the same but the city of longview wants to put the blame on somebody else and the daily news must condone this as well by the article. i think that it is time for the city of longview and the dialy news to step up to the plate and own the problem that has been around for years. i think that the daily news needs to re-write the article to reflect the truth. the city of longview has been getting a very good deal for a long time and now it is time for them to buck up and deal with their problem and quit blaming other people and other agencies and own the problem. "

Tortoise wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:34 AM:

" Mrs. Pellwerds: saying that Longview Firefighters don't do anything for their salary is incredibly ignorant. What are you proposing? Disband the Longview Fire Department? Give me a break. When you or a loved one have a heart attack, suffer an injury, or your house catches fire, ask yourself then what Longview Firefighters do when they come rushing to your aid. "

JACK7135 wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:40 AM:

" I SURE CAN UNDERSTAND HOW WEBER FEELS.. WE ALL LIKE FREE B'S... BUT WHY SHOULD THE COUNTY TAX PAYERS... TAKE THE BRUNT.. FOR LONGVIEW CITY COUNCIL.. IT TIME FOR ALL THE COUNCIL'S TO TAKE NOTICE IT COST ALL FIRE DIST. A LOT OF MONEY TO OPERATE... AND DIST 2 "ABANDON CITIZENS" COME ON WEBER ... THAT IS WHY YOU GOT ELECTED TO THE COUNCIL TO SHOW YOUR "BRAINS" ON PAPER... "

Hogwashin wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:44 AM:

" Once again, the Daily News does a disservice to the community. I would think that an editor would check into the facts and figures that these fire chiefs claim to be true. The editor should consider that these fire chiefs have high school educations and may not have the math skills to correctly calculate the actual costs. The editor should consider that there are no formal requirements to be a fire chief in this state. The fire commissioners can appoint their good old buddies kid to the position even if the kid is just a dump truck driver. The editor should also consider that these fire chiefs will lie and deceive to get their way. Like they did with the tax levy in last years election. I will point out the inconsistencies in my next post. "

Hogwashin wrote on Oct 3, 2008 10:34 AM:

" The article says that the arrangement has become increasingly lopsided. The article says that Cowlitz 2 responds to 1182 calls and Longview Fire responding to 135 calls. These numbers are not lopsided, because the Cowlitz 2 calls are AMBULANCE CALLS and the Longview calls are FIRE CALLS. Which call costs the tax payer more? An ambulance with two EMTs or a fire truck with 6 firefighters? This ratio of ambulance to fire calls is also supported by the historical data found on the Cowlitz County 911 Dispatch Center website. The Cowlitz 2 tax payer is actually getting a better deal because, pound for pound, you can get two lean mean firefighting machines from Longview Fire for each donut punching hang belly from Cowlitz 2. "

Tortoise wrote on Oct 3, 2008 10:54 AM:

" Hogwashin, you are not reading the data correctly. Cowlitz 2 covers more than 1182 calls. It covers 1182 calls in LONGVIEW. Longview Fire covers more than 135 calls. It covers 135 calls in COWLITZ 2 territory. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the facts. Basically the problem is, Cowlitz 2 is giving a lot more to the City of Longview than Longview Fire is giving to the district of Cowlitz 2. About nine times more. And just like Longview Fire, when Cowlitz 2 is sent to an aid call, they typically send an engine and an ambulance. They're firefighters too, just like Longview. "

tazer baby wrote on Oct 3, 2008 11:01 AM:

" The next time, the "Big Guy" forbid, you, or a loved one, grabs their chest and cannot breath, or get trapped in a vehicle following a motor vehicle accident...let us know how much you think that these people are worth. "

skeezix wrote on Oct 3, 2008 11:30 AM:

" Mrs. Pellwerds, To answer your question, they save your behind and/or home if necessary. "

no one wrote on Oct 3, 2008 11:58 AM:

" Re: Mrs: Pellwerds: are you joking? They risk their lives to save yours when it's in danger. They will enter a burning building to drag you out. I guess maybe it's not worth $60K per year if everyone they save is as unappreciative as you, but luckily the majority of us realize we don't put our lives on the line for others everyday we show up to work and we feel they are worth every penny and more. And no, I have no close friends or family members in the department, I'm just smart enough to know the value of human life. "

Mrs. Pellwerds wrote on Oct 3, 2008 12:03 PM:

" Tortoise: If you notice my post was a question, not a statement (that's why I used a question mark). And, if I did suffer any medical trauma I would not be happy to see 4 Fire Fighters standing around waiting for a medic to provide advanced care and transport me to the hospital. They do have hoses to fight fires, you got me there. So, how many fires do they put out? Maybe a dozen or so a year? So what do they do the rest of the 350 days a year? "

myopinion wrote on Oct 3, 2008 12:06 PM:

" Hog.. "donut punching hang belly"? why the name calling? Is it to hard for you to face the facts that you have to resort to that? I think that Cowlitz 2 has every right to feel the way they feel. And just so you know there are NOT 6 fire fighters on a fire truck. Most the time there are no more than 3 to 4 on a truck during the day. Get your info right before you open your mouth. "

cctaxpayer wrote on Oct 3, 2008 12:13 PM:

" Hey Tortoise, just info for you when a cowlitz 2 medic responds to an aid call in longview they are assisted by a longview firetruck. "

Tortoise wrote on Oct 3, 2008 12:32 PM:

" Mrs. Pellwerds: you know exactly what you were insinuating. It's the same way a person might ask, "What does the governor do for $XXXXXX a year?" "What does a school teacher do for $XXXXX a year?" It was typical complaining and you know it. By asking the question you were insinuating that the firefighters are not worth their salary. And I am here to say that you are wrong. "

tazer baby wrote on Oct 3, 2008 1:04 PM:

" Incredibly sad, I am saddend by the comments concerning Fire/Rescue personnel. Everyone has the ability to better themselves in life. It seems the ones that have not are taking misplaced jabs at the ones that have. "

Hogwashin wrote on Oct 3, 2008 1:13 PM:

" The article says The cost works out to a fee of $175 per call. Where did that number come from? It looks like they took the contract value of $206,000 and divided it by the call volume of 1182 calls. This is not a true representation of the cost of each call. Washington state law is very clear on this topic. The total cost for the AVAILABILITY of equipment and manpower is paid for by the Cowlitz 2 taxpayer and allowed to provide service outside of the district with the permission from the fire commissioners. The cost per call is a DEMAND COST that is attributed to the actual, variable cost of the individual call. It is not a flat rate 175 bucks. This is the kind of math that I would expect from a high school dropout and not from an editor of a newspaper. "

Im_not_saying wrote on Oct 3, 2008 1:24 PM:

" People really amaze me - First of all, If you were trapped in your house during a fire, or earthquake, and the first thing you saw were firefighters pulling you out, risking their lives, you wouldn't care what they were paid. These are the men and women trained to save you in fires, floods, and other natural disasters. $60,000 is a lot of cash but is it worth it? YOU BET. Second of all - the name calling is unwarranted. Both agencies have a WIDE assortment of men and women working for them. Every fire department has a few that could use a few more workouts. Third - The Big guys standing around are there for a purpose - ever get together with a buddy and haul a 270 pound person, a gurney weighing 60 pounds, and another 50 pounds of medical equipment down a staircase? how about a 400-500 lb person off the floor? Takes more than the two of you? And in a cardiac arrest, One doing ventilations, another doing compressions, who gives medications and defibrillates, not to mention carries the person to the ambulance? Please people - Next time find out about something before spouting off. And the ambulance calls into longview vs. Fire calls to Kelso? There's 4 firefighters on Longview's Trucks. And 3 on D2 ambulances - 1 being a volunteer. "

twr82 wrote on Oct 3, 2008 2:34 PM:

" Hey HOGWASHIN,
Whats the matter, did your mommy not show you enough love when you where a baby, or are you one of those past Cowlitz 2 volunteers/employee that got released for not cutting it??? We have to wonder why your such an angry little person? "

Catiedid wrote on Oct 3, 2008 2:35 PM:

" I have never read the comments before or responded but I was amazed at the comments negative and unaware people provide, under the guise of being knowledgeable about the situation. Cowlitz 2 and Longview work very hard to provide the best service possible and in a manner that is the most fair to those who pay for it. That is why an outside financial consultant was contacted to the bottom of this situation. It was an outside unbiased firm that determined the numbers.

The other posting about what do firemen do to earn so much was incredible. They face the nightmares we hope never to have to encounter. Every incident you see or hear about: car accident, suicide, drowning, burning, murder, etc. These are they people who have to witness it and clean up the mess. The time and training they put into their day makes them the most prepared they can be when they face situations that leave even these professionals disturbed. We should never question their expense because they never think of the expense to their mental health and the toll it takes on them to do their job and always be there, from the most insignificant call to the most horrifying. These guys are vital and need to be supported. And the fire chiefs love their community, and are deeply devoted to it. Their efforts are focuse on making the right choices for the department and community, not trying to screw everyone. "

Mrs. Pellwerds wrote on Oct 3, 2008 2:53 PM:

" Tortoise: You have Assumed wrong. "

Hogwashin wrote on Oct 3, 2008 3:01 PM:

" The article says The cost works out to a fee of $175 per call. Where did that number come from? It looks like they took the contract value of $206,000 and divided it by the call volume of 1182 calls. This is not a true representation of the cost of each call. Washington state law is very clear on this topic. The total cost for the AVAILABILITY of equipment and manpower is paid for by the Cowlitz 2 taxpayer and allowed to provide service outside of the district with the permission from the fire commissioners. The cost per call is a DEMAND COST that is attributed to the actual, variable cost of the individual call. It is not a flat rate 175 bucks. This is the kind of math that I would expect from a high school dropout and not from an editor of a newspaper. "

Hogwashin wrote on Oct 3, 2008 3:01 PM:

" The article says there have been troubling gaps in emergency service with no ambulances available about 12 times a month amounting to 6.5 hours. So just what does not available really mean? Does it mean every available ambulance is working on a patient that is on the verge of death? Or does it mean that all of the ambulances are out of service to write reports, or have meetings, or maybe just stop for lunch? I seriously doubt that there is an EMT in this county that would turn down an emergency call because they where having lunch. The writer of this article is doing a disservice to the readers by insinuating that no one will come to their aid. "

Hogwashin wrote on Oct 3, 2008 3:02 PM:

" Using county wide call volume statistics from the 911 Dispatch Center and the 6.5 hours quoted in the article, I have found that on an hour by hour basis, the probability of the occurrence of a life threatening aid call and the occurrence of no ambulances available is about 0.001. What this means is that there is a one in a thousand chance that a medic will have his lunch interrupted. In my opinion, THAT IS EXCELLENT SERVICE. However, the writer presents these numbers in a negative light. By the way, this math was tested on February 21, 2008 when Lafave ordered his ambulances to ignore calls if they only had ONE ambulance left. It took months before a problem occurred. See here http://www.tdn.com/articles/2008/03/09/top_story/10145284.txt Why didnt the Daily News staff figure this out before they printed it? "

Blogger Jogger wrote on Oct 3, 2008 4:48 PM:

" Regardless of what the article says, or doesn't say, it appears to me that "Hogwashin" has a personal vendetta against the, "... Cowlitz Fire Chief(s)." Which, in my book, makes all of his statements just that, Hogwash. Take your personal ax somewhere else to grind it. "

Hogwashin wrote on Oct 3, 2008 5:02 PM:

" Using county wide call volume statistics from the 911 Dispatch Center and the 6.5 hours quoted in the article, I have found that on an hour by hour basis, the probability of the occurrence of a life threatening aid call and the occurrence of no ambulances available is about 0.001. What this means is that there is a one in a thousand chance that a medic will have his lunch interrupted. In my opinion, THAT IS EXCELLENT SERVICE. However, the writer presents these numbers in a negative light. By the way, this math was tested on February 21, 2008 when Lafave ordered his ambulances to ignore calls if they only had ONE ambulance left. It took months before a problem occurred. See here http://www.tdn.com/articles/2008/03/09/top_story/10145284.txt Why didnt the Daily News staff figure this out before they printed it? "

Hogwashin wrote on Oct 3, 2008 5:14 PM:

" The article says there is a rising number of calls for service in outlying areas and Lexington.
The historical statistics from the Cowlitz County 911 Dispatch Center show that the total call volume has remained fairly steady for the last five years. The call volume per capita is actually DECLINING. An article in the Daily News shows that the county is barely growing. http://www.tdn.com/articles/2008/08/08/area_news/doc489bb0d81f0f6528091320.txt
Cowlitz County is growing at less than 1% per year and the city of Longview is growing at less than 0.5% per year. So if more calls are being dispatched to the Lexington station, then the Kelso station is handling fewer calls. The Daily News could have verified these numbers before repeating them to the public. "

Hogwashin wrote on Oct 3, 2008 5:34 PM:

" The article says that Cowlitz 2 has been subsidizing the city with paramedic and transport services for many years. We are simply not in a position to continue to do so. I assume this means financial position. It is hard to believe that statement when the Cowlitz 2 tax revenue increased by 22% this year. Cowlitz 2 is taxing at the highest rate allowed by law and will continue to do so for the next six years. Cowltiz 2 is in the position to pay the chief and assistant chief an extra stipend and they are in the position to add three positions to their administrative staff. However, they are not in the position to help their neighbors? "

Hogwashin wrote on Oct 3, 2008 5:34 PM:

" In summary, the Daily News does a disservice to the community by repeating unverified statements made by public servants that are nothing but politicians. "

RV wrote on Oct 3, 2008 5:45 PM:

" TDN does a disservice to the community by allowing Hogwashin to continue to post hogwash. "

bmack wrote on Oct 3, 2008 6:01 PM:

" Hogwash is obviously a former disgruntled EMS, or fire service wanna be. I don't think we can smear Fire Chiefs for protecting the people in their districts. They after all are paying the freight. "

freezers wrote on Oct 3, 2008 6:03 PM:

" hogwashin needs to look at the tax he pays the school district "

freezers wrote on Oct 3, 2008 6:06 PM:

" well maybe hogwashin does not pay tax or he is upset that cowlitz 2 is not willing to provide a free service to him or herself or he is angry that he is paying to subsidize longview. "

davewb wrote on Oct 3, 2008 7:22 PM:

" davewb
* what a bunch of b.s. you bloggers have no idea what your taking about. 1st- city of longview for years has taken the stance not to be involved in ems. good or bad their decision... 2nd-
dist 2 has 20+ paramedics and have no ems problem,,,when they went into ems they made the statement If you have a problem just call us we will respond. maybe the problem lies in staffing..enough said,,,Fire Base EMS has run its course, cowlitz county wake up its not 1990 its 2008 and counting..maybe its time to look into anew approach...County EMS levy...this could fund ems county wide..take it out of the fire departments tax base..use levy taxes to fund ems,locate ems throughout the county and staff it as needed...remain in fire departmets, use the levy to pay paramedics and emt/iv tech...purchase new ambualances as needed. call pay goes to the department responding, use this money to equip units. org. ems aa a department of its own.....Firefighting is a choosen profession, if you think for one minute it easy or a walk in the park...come on down and sign up...WALK IN MY SHOES FOR A MILE AND YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN volunteers needed all over the county..I don't agree with the word hero...but come on down and be a hero "

Hogwashin wrote on Oct 4, 2008 11:31 AM:

" I apologize for my comments about the physical condition of the firefighters. It was uncalled for.
I am sorry. My rude remarks do not help. Here are some things to think about. . . The fire department recognizes the problem and sends the firefighters to the gym everyday. Firefighters are paid to be capable of performing a physically demanding job. The leading cause of death in firefighters is a heart attack. What happens if the Big Guy goes down in a fire? Who is going to drag him out? Being overweight does not help with any of these. "

myopinion wrote on Oct 4, 2008 3:06 PM:

" hogwashin the physical appearance of those fire fighters has nothing to do with this article so dont bring it up. I bet the physical appearance of those men doesnt bother you when you have a house fire or you or a family member is in need of medical attention. "

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