Power supplier turns to natural gas
Monday, September 22, 2008 12:06 AM PDT
By Erik Olson
Printable version
E-mail this articleEnergy Northwest is expected to unveil a plan within the next two months for a natural gas plant at the Port of Kalama, according to a state energy official.
Representatives from the Richland-based public power group informed the state Energy Facilities Site Council of their plan at a meeting in Olympia on Sept. 9, council manager Allen Fiksdal said Thursday.
They are expected to come back to the council, which issues permits for energy projects, in October or November, he said.
Energy Northwest had originally sought to build a $1.5 billion petcoke/coal gasification plant at the Kalama site. The power giant had promised to use a newer, cleaner technology to gasify coal or petcoke, a by-product of petroleum refining. The plant would have generated 680 megawatts of power, slightly more than half as much as the former Trojan Nuclear Plant.
But the council ruled Energy Northwest failed to abide by the new state law aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions. The plant would have released 4.4 million tons of carbon dioxide, which helps trap heat in the atmosphere.
Natural gas is about the only steady new power source left to tap in Washington, with regulations making coal-fired and gasification technologies near impossible to build, said Brad Peck, a spokesman for Energy Northwest.
Renewable sources, such as wind and tidal power, are great emerging technologies but don't provide a consistent power supply, Peck said.
"We have to have some base-load power. It can't be all intermittent," Peck said.
Energy Northwest hasn't determined a final cost for the project or how much energy it would produce, Peck said, though it's likely to be more costly.
Energy Northwest representatives said the new plant would require 20 acres instead of the 90 acres set aside for the original plant, Fiksdal said.
If Energy Northwest is successful, the Kalama power station would become the third natural gas plant in the Lower Columbia area. After a seven-year wait, Minnesota-based Wayzata Investment Partners fired up a natural gas plant at Longview's Mint Farm Industrial Park last year. Last summer, Portland General Electric fired up a natural gas plant at Port Westward near Clatskanie.
cynic954 wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:46 AM:
" This is another reason for the LNG terminal in this area. Within 10 years alot of cars and trucks will be running on that fuel same with most new power plants. "
Rural Citizen wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:47 AM:
" I think the PUD owes it to the customers to explain WHERE all this energy is going to?
I can't help notice the gigantic enrichment the PUD has experienced personally, with all the gigantic paychecks, the vehicles, the building, etc.
I thought it was a PUBLIC utility Department; meaning the PUBLIC had an interest? How about using the PROFIT to pay for schools for our kids instead of selling it to other states and building more and more and more for your own personal enrichment?
How about using the profit to repave Longview and Kelso? Or build a Public LIBRARY WORTH going to? "
I can't help notice the gigantic enrichment the PUD has experienced personally, with all the gigantic paychecks, the vehicles, the building, etc.
I thought it was a PUBLIC utility Department; meaning the PUBLIC had an interest? How about using the PROFIT to pay for schools for our kids instead of selling it to other states and building more and more and more for your own personal enrichment?
How about using the profit to repave Longview and Kelso? Or build a Public LIBRARY WORTH going to? "
grams wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:57 AM:
" cynic954/ wrong and right. this is not "another" reason for the LNG terminal , and within 10 years lots of cars will be using natural gas as a propellent. Natural gas fired electric generator plants for future energy is a given. Domestic natural gas is the prime fossil fuel to look to in that regard. We have that. Why would we want to use foreign fossil fuel to run our cars and trucks? Hasn't the price of petrol got your attention yet? We are dependant on an imported fossil fuel for our gasoline, and you are saying that we should be dependant on another imported fossil fuel for our combustion engines? When the United States needs to hurry up and get things done we do it. I am old enough to remember how true that is because I lived through WWII when airplanes, ships, tanks , jeeps and wartime equipment was manufactured like magic. As Sarah Palin has stated.."we can do this"! "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:06 AM:
" RE Cynic954, you are risking the wrath of the local NIMBY pansies with that statement. Not being a NIMBY I agree with you completely. The more you look at the pros and cons of this LRN terminal project it makes sense to build it regardless of the NIMBYs. There will be new jobs, the money from the $600 million construction project will filter down to the community level and now this. Oh wait, I can hear the NIMBYs getting ready to fight a losing cause. "
grams wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:55 AM:
" TDN Bad Boy
tch tch , such boring retoric. And dear boy fighting for a good cause is a good thing. And a responsibility that goes with our citizenship. I respect your right to your opnion. You need to respect the power of the people. And the three year effort, personal time and much personal money that has been dedicated by thousands of people to keep LNG off the Columbia River. If you want to provide proof that this project will filter down to our community and be a financial boon plese have at it. Or you could spend a little personal money and take out your own add for LNG. Otherwise your retoric is just a lot of blah , blah , blah. Actions speak louder than words. "
tch tch , such boring retoric. And dear boy fighting for a good cause is a good thing. And a responsibility that goes with our citizenship. I respect your right to your opnion. You need to respect the power of the people. And the three year effort, personal time and much personal money that has been dedicated by thousands of people to keep LNG off the Columbia River. If you want to provide proof that this project will filter down to our community and be a financial boon plese have at it. Or you could spend a little personal money and take out your own add for LNG. Otherwise your retoric is just a lot of blah , blah , blah. Actions speak louder than words. "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Sep 22, 2008 11:02 AM:
" Grams, I will give you your answer to the foreign vs. domestic. Mainly because the Obama/Reid/Pukelosi Liberals do not want to drill or do something even smarter and build more nuclear energy platforms. Until they go that route, you are going to see us dependable on foreign fossil fuels. It is going to take us decades to break that. You seem to think it will happen overnight. Obama wants you to believe that. McCain and Palin know the reality of it and that is what McCain's energy plan is based upon. He is looking at every secter, not just saying this is bad, this good. It will take oil, natural gas, nuclear energy, and alternative energies to get us out of this mess. We have them all but when the Liberals want to play games like limiting off-shore drilling to beyond 50 miles when more than 75 percent of the oil is located within 50 miles it becomes a joke. Just like Obama. "
Jack Squat wrote on Sep 22, 2008 11:46 AM:
" Rural Citizen: I'm a PUD customer who lives in Woodland...and sorry, but I have no interest in my PUD rates paying for better streets and libraries in Longview. The cities and school districts can take care of themselves. And as far as the PUD and this plant...there is nothing in the article about the PUD having any relationship to it. I seem to recall an article in TDN a few weeks ago that said the PUD had no interest in using power from the Kalama plant. So what exactly are you talking about? "
overeducated wrote on Sep 22, 2008 12:30 PM:
" Natural gas is certainly better than coal, but I don't buy their argument about needing a base power source to augment wind and tidal. A much better power source would be geo-thermal. Also we have hydro to provide a nice base. They should invest their money in offshore wind farms. "
ccd wrote on Sep 22, 2008 1:06 PM:
" TDN Boy - are you as overbearing in real life as you are online here? You say you have your own biz, well so does my husband, and he definitely doesn't have time to sit here and beligerently hit people over the head as you do. You have absolutely no manners, and no respect for the opinions of others. If they don't march lockstep with Bush/MCain's ideologies, you just belittle and beat them up. Want people to consider your position? Want people to consider both sides? Then change your tone, your unkind rhetoric, and try having more of an open mind yourself. You are such an overheated bully on here, it's very tiresome. "
rastor wrote on Sep 22, 2008 1:42 PM:
" A natural gas plant was built in the Chehalis industrial park a few years ago. They received all sorts of tax breaks, and incentives to build there and the plant has sat idle for at least the past 5 years because of the cost of the fuel compared to the cost of electricity. The company sued Lewis County for "over assessing" the property values and subsequent tax bills as being "too high" for the actual value of a plant that can't make money! No the plant sites idle, doesn't generate any local revenue, has only a skeleton work crew, and doesn't do a thing for the local economy. It just gave a large corporation a large tax break, a reason to file bankruptcy, and then get bought out making a few people rich while never delivering their promises of clean energy, high paying jobs, positive balance on property taxes! Get fighting this NOW, it didn't work 10 years ago, and the same lies will say the same thing! "
gimpy wrote on Sep 22, 2008 1:50 PM:
" I anticipated this argument after I saw the headline. Tell you what, why don't we just build the LNG plant in Kalama and forgo the pipeline through Cowlitz County? Any of you south county people have strong feelings about that? I'll bet you do. And in case nobody has seen the plant in operation at Port Westward, drive down that way some night. It looks like a french you-know-what-house over there. I feel sorry for the nearby residents who have to put up with not only the noise pollution, but also the light pollution. Let's quit arguing and move toward more renewable energy, not FOREIGN FOSSIL FUEL. "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Sep 22, 2008 2:06 PM:
" Gimpy, nobody is saying let's don't move away from foreign fossil fuel. I think that argument is over. The problem is you think it is going to happen overnight. It is going to take decades. In the meantime, we need energy. To start off, we have to harvest as much domestic oil as we can AND at the say time build MORE nuclear energy sites AND look at the alternative energy sources. IT HAS TO BE A package. LRG is part of that package, which is why the LNG plant will be good. When the domestic drilling opens up, and believe me it will, that plant can be used for domestic gas, thus your argument against the plant based on foreign fuel will be mute. The Liberals can't stop it forever, try as they might. Watch what happen after the election. The Obama/Reid/Pukelosi Liberal Democrats in Congress last week approved drilling beyond 50 miles off shore. As soon as the election is over that will come in drastically. If elected Obama will face reality and when reality comes face to face with dreams, guess which will win? Reality. The Liberals are using the energy crisis like terrorist on a hijacked plane. Well, they will tire sooner or later and when they do, it will all open up. What we need right now is to tell the Liberals to quit holding us hostage. Their silly little games are simply partisan politics at its worst. Not the publics best interest. "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Sep 22, 2008 2:07 PM:
" CCD, see the name at the top of my entry. When you see it, don't read it. I could care less whether you consider my opinion. Go vote your Liberal Democrat and I will keep fighting against you. "
kelsograd wrote on Sep 22, 2008 2:15 PM:
" I say use all the foreign fossil fuels possible, then when it's gone we will own the world! Becoause we will still have ours. "
mary wrote on Sep 22, 2008 3:20 PM:
" I live right by port westward and you have lied about the pollution and the noise. I don't here any thing or smell any thing. geez "
DUH wrote on Sep 22, 2008 3:40 PM:
" ccd.... The reason that Bad Boy acts the way he does on here is because he truly lives in fear that his party will lose. And well he should. "
Louie wrote on Sep 22, 2008 4:19 PM:
" CCD hit the nail on the head regarding TDN Bad Boy. I do take his advise, the only advise he gives that is worth while, and when I see his name I DON'T READ IT. I feel sorry for his employees, his wife and kids (if he has any) and his friends (doubt if he has many of those)and anyone else that comes in contact with such a one-sided, know-it-all, controlling individual.
He has typical far right ideas and is never open to heeding or making a effort to hear a different opinion.
Natural gas is sure a cleaner, greener choice over coal. Wind, tidal, solar, hydro and nuclear are all greener alternatives but we have to find a safe way to dispose of the nuclear waste before I will feel comfortable with that form of energy. What does France do? "
He has typical far right ideas and is never open to heeding or making a effort to hear a different opinion.
Natural gas is sure a cleaner, greener choice over coal. Wind, tidal, solar, hydro and nuclear are all greener alternatives but we have to find a safe way to dispose of the nuclear waste before I will feel comfortable with that form of energy. What does France do? "
ccd wrote on Sep 22, 2008 4:35 PM:
" DUH, what TDN Bad Boy actually believes is that HE has the only answer to all of the problems in the universe. Anyone who doesn't agree with his position is categorized as a Dem or a Lib (even if they are niether), or belittled and derided for having an independent thought of their own to which he objects. Very vitriolic, frustrated, angry man who spends far too much time online, that's quite easy to see. Cannot imagine being around him when the world doesn't go his way. Truth is, even if his guy does win, he'll simply be a lame duck Prez. People are through with handing the keys to the party that drove this nation off of the financial cliff due to lack of regulation and lack of oversight. There's socialism for the wealthy & CEOs, but no livable wage jobs being created for those who need them. McCain wants to turn our healthcare over to those same free, unregulated markets - and after seeing what has become of the banking & mortgage industry, only a NeoCon like TDN Bad Boy would be happy about that idea. "
mole wrote on Sep 22, 2008 4:53 PM:
" CCD@DUH:once again you can read tdnbb,like a funny book!!! he is a blow hard out of wind,and nothing but!!!!"McCain,Palin" anyone with vision beyond,color can see that,with them the real names would be bushcain and chenalin no changes.WHY DOES THE GOVERNMENT FEEL IT HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL A WOMAN WHAT TO DO TO THIER OWN BODIES.100 YEARS IN A WAR WE CAN'T PAY FOR,ENERGY POLICY SO FAR OF TRACK IT;S A TRAIN WRECK,FOREIGN POLICY[I CAN SEE RUSSIA]QUITE AN INTELIGENT STATEMENT,OUR NEW PRESIDENT WILL HAVE,NOT A MISTAKE McCAIN IS TO OLD,SO V.P. IS UP TO BAT "
kalama river resident wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:20 PM:
" I am actually hoping Obama wins, four years with democrats at the wheel of the congress and obama president nobody will want to vote Democrat again!think a 10 trillion dollar deficit is bad now, wait till there is no checks or balances in the government, it happens every time the same political party controls the white house and congress!! remember clintons first term or bushs first term?? spending out of control!! be careful what you wish for "
Billy Hill wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:55 PM:
" Ah....CNG...I just fill up the big tank in my back yard once a year and its always there, no trips to gas stations wondering what the price will be as it goes up and down while mine stays the same and I fill it on a down cycle, clean easy to use and good for the environment. there is noting better on the market today. period. "
gimpy wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:45 PM:
" Boy, how did I have it soooo wrong for soooo long?? The war in Iraq--Dems fault. The ballooning deficit---again, Dems fault. The current disaster on Wall Street--liberals fault. The manufactured energy crisis--those Dems whose oil companies will stand to profit. Must be nice to be an innocent radical neo-con and bear no blame for anything, huh, TDNBB? And as for lying about the pollution at Port Westward, I have a friend who lives across the river and wears earplugs to block the noise. He's thinking of selling his property and leaving because of it. "
grams wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:57 PM:
" TDN Bad Boy the only thing that happens in government overnight is when they have to bail out Wall Street!. Listen, of course this is not going to happen over night. It is going to take time but for goodness sake how long do you think it takes to build a new infrastructure? And why would one encourage the introduction of an LNG fed infrstructure in an area where it is not needed while we contemplate that one day something new will come along.. We have the product now, we have the workers now, we have the need now. So that means that in perhaps 10 years from now we will have a domestic natural gas infrastructure that will benifit us. Many of the gaslines are already there.. TransCanada already has an infrastructure that covers the entire country. But, if we allow this LNG invasion how can you possibly imagine that we will just be able to turn off the spigot in a few years and welcome domestic gas. That makes no sense. In the meantime the need for LNG in foreign countries has increased the price, and spot markets will follow the money. If we don't start now then where will we be 10 years down the road? This country was not built on the 'I want it now" philosophy. Our forefathers put together documents to last the centuries. We need to protect that concept by taking care of our own first. "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:07 PM:
" Unlike the Libeals, I don't need to be an attack dog to make a valid point. This plant will be good for the community and the region. I urge the Liberals to somehow tell us how they propose to bring $600 million into the community? I don't expect an answer. That would take intelligence and none of the above have ever shown the capablity to think like that. "
grams wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:18 PM:
" to all of you who are so busy making caustic remarks about the "other party" what do you think that will gain you. It sure has not done any good in Congress. I am just sick and tired of all of you who think there is only one party and it's yours. There are so many people on here who are bright, articulate and well meaning who would serve this cause better if they weren't so busy attacking their oponents by calling them demeaning and insulting names. I have many friends of the opposing party and I would not trade them for the same amount of aquaintences from my own party. These attacks are certainly not going to when someone on here offers something that causes them to look at something a different way. There is nothing wrong with a good argument. That is what we are all about but castigating each other deflects the purpose of posts like this. I am a conservative. I believe in my party platform. That does not meant that I agree with some of the graft and greed that has gone on during the Republican presidentcy, and I am not so stupid as not to recognize that there is pleanty of blame to go around on both sides. We will never solve these issues as long as we fight among ourselves and that is just what the politicians politicians want. "
cranky wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:53 AM:
" Ok more on LNG. An unknown company comes to town and declares you need more natural gas. To make this happen we will give you a few hundred temperary jobs and a little cash. In return we want to TAKE the properties of hundreds of families and damage your local environment(oh we will give you money to take care of that too). A fair trade off hmmmmmm.
A question to TDA badboy. If someone came to you and said we want to TAKE your property and run a 36", no oder, high pressure gas line through it and it will decrease the value of your home and you will not be able to use that portion of YOUR Property how would you respond?
Also have you read the FERC websight?
Why are so many on the right and left against it?
Oh yeah we are all NIMBY "
A question to TDA badboy. If someone came to you and said we want to TAKE your property and run a 36", no oder, high pressure gas line through it and it will decrease the value of your home and you will not be able to use that portion of YOUR Property how would you respond?
Also have you read the FERC websight?
Why are so many on the right and left against it?
Oh yeah we are all NIMBY "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Sep 23, 2008 9:33 AM:
" Grams, you are certain that this could never be used for domestic natural gas. I would beg to differ. As the future changes and the Liberals realize that we have to produce our own fossil energy this plant can then be used for that. Explain to me why it can't? Because the company that builds it uses foreign fuel? Who is to say that wouldn't change in the future if domestic fuel became available. And Gimpy I never said anything about the noise at the port, somebody else did who lives near there. Seems like there are disagreeing views on that point. I have had property that I owned that had to give usage rights for electrical lines. I eventually sold the property and it became commerical land. That happens. But once again only 18 of 1,700 plots were acquired through eminent domain in Ohio. That is barely 1 percent. This plant will be good for the community in many, many financial ways. There will be jobs at the plant, and auxillary jobs that the plant will create in the community. I respect your right to disagree with that but I see it differently than you. NIMBYs will always argue against progress. I expect that. "
grams wrote on Sep 23, 2008 11:43 AM:
" TDN Bad Boy Well, I guess age teaches some of us that "coulda, woulda, shoulda, is not a good argument. Like you, I am all for commerce, I am all for jobs and I am all for progress. However, there is this. In order for an LNG terminal to be useful to the genereal natural gas consumer we need to have American LNG ships delivering domestic LNG. At this point in time that will never happen. (The Jones Act) Alaska has to sell their LNG to Japan for that very reason. Why would a big INTERNATIONAL oil speculator spend the millions to billions of dollars to develope an international terminal which includes the sub structure and tanker piers with all that underwater parifinalia and 57 acres of dredging for a turn around , why should they ever choose to sell, or turn that over to a maritime infrastructure that does not exist? And I might add that Biden has continually supported The Jones Act in order to keep American Jobs, and American maritime industry growing. I would love to see us develope our own LNG tankers. That would bring boucou jobs to this country, and yes, then we could use our own ALASKAN DOMESTIC Natural GAS . However with a pipeline infrastructure in place now why would we need this huge terminal in the first place. Now if you want to talk about lots of LNG peak shaving tanks that draw from domestic natural gas pipelins,................ "
grams wrote on Sep 23, 2008 11:47 AM:
" PS I don't think Gimpy was talking to you in regard to the noise and lights polution factor. And I live on SR4 out in the Stella area.. I don't get the lights but when that plant becomes flanuant believe me I think a thousand jets are headed for my house! I can't imagine what it must be like for those living across the river from it. I might ask Mary is she has a hearing problem ? "
rastor wrote on Sep 23, 2008 3:32 PM:
" Have the company buy the IDLE plant in Chehalis! The same ideas built that debacle that has only 15 employees and doesn't generate electricity because the cost of the fuel, cost of converting it to electricity costs at least twice the price paid for electricity on the open market. "
TDN Bad Boy wrote on Sep 23, 2008 3:35 PM:
" Grams, time has a way of changing everything and sooner rather than later in my opinion the Liberals are going to realize that we need to do more with our natural resources. Will it be in my lifetime or yours? I don't know. But like any change it will come over time and not in one moment. So by putting in this terminal we might be take a small step in that direction. I know you disagree and I know you have property that either will or could be impacted by this. Sorry to say, that's progress. "
grams wrote on Sep 23, 2008 8:58 PM:
" TDN Bad Boy You are wrong. I do not have property that will be Impacted. I am a NIMBY because I don't want our columbia River kidnapped by foreign energy conglomerates with the sooner rather than later economic strangulation of our Washinton, Oregon ports, our fishing industry and our Washington, Oregon citizens not being able to call their river their own. Time does have a way of changing things. Without change we could not see into our solar system, out of our solar system ,or catch criminals who are burglerizing some business through catching them with the cameras eye.. You and I would not be able to communicate like this and we would not be able to know within 30 seconds when some disaster , bad weather pattern or, a new baby panda is born. If there was some way to really displace the polution presently inherant in the use of coal that would be , to my way of thinking, the best fossil fuel we could
turn to while we slowly develope avenues for renewable energy resources.At this time that is not practible but neither is choosing to maintain a slave relationship to a fossil fuel that comes from foreign countries who are not friendly to us, but love our money. I guess we just agree to disagree. "
turn to while we slowly develope avenues for renewable energy resources.At this time that is not practible but neither is choosing to maintain a slave relationship to a fossil fuel that comes from foreign countries who are not friendly to us, but love our money. I guess we just agree to disagree. "
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