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Musician Amparo Tinoco can no longer play bijuela after the bus he was in went off an Oregon cliff in the early 1990s. His is a tale of patience and perserverance, and immigration. Greg Ebersole / The Daily News.

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The long road to citizenship

Wednesday, August 6, 2008 11:36 PM PDT

By Thacher Schmid

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Amparo Tinoco’s eyes fill with tears when he recalls the morning in February 1992 when the used school bus he and nine other tree planters were riding in went off a cliff, flipped over 10 times and changed his life forever. When he talks about becoming a U.S. citizen two years ago, however, his face lights up, his eyebrows lift.

He had already failed the citizenship test once, missing the tester’s question: “What are the colors of my tie?”

Undeterred, he went back to Seattle and retested. With his limited English, he answered questions like “who liberated the slaves?” and “who is the father of the country?” But he wasn’t told whether he passed. Weeks later, he received a letter from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services for a date in Tacoma.

“We went up, and I thought they were going to grab me for more questions,” Tinoco, 63, recalls in Spanish. When his name was called, he walked up to the podium with his “mica” or legal permanent residency papers.

“He said, ‘give me that mica,’” Tinoco said, smiling. “Then he said, ‘No more,’ and handed me a little flag.”

An American flag.

“Now I don’t have to renew nothing,” Tinoco said. “Now I’m from here.”

Tinoco’s zeal to obtain citizenship conflicts with assertions of advocates of tougher immigration laws, who say Mexicans who enter illegally don’t want to blend in to American society or become citizens. Not only did Tinoco become a citizen, he’s hopeful that his three children in Longview all will become citizens, having fought for a decade to bring them here on a visa after their mother died in Mexico years ago.

Frequent deportations

Amparo (am-PA-ro) Tinoco waited two decades to get his citizenship after receiving his legal permanent resident status as part of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 — popularly known as “amnesty” approved by President Ronald Reagan.

His resolve to become an American wasn’t derailed by a tragic accident that put him in a wheelchair and nearly took his life.

Like many of the migrant workers of the 1980s, Tinoco regularly travelled between the fruit farms in California’s Central Valley and his home in Morelia, in the Mexican state of Michoacan.

Sometimes, the trips south weren’t of own choosing.

“I was deported so many times,” Tinoco says. In one year alone he was dropped off in Tijuana or Mexicali “four or five times.”

Travelling between Longview and other locales as a migrant worker, Tinoco began working as a tree planter in the southern Cascades, near Roseburg, Ore. He and eight other pineros, “men of the pine,” would hop into a small used school bus and drive up into the mountains.

One early Monday morning in February 1992, the group’s foreman was still drunk from a weekend binge, and put his young nephew behind the wheel, Tinoco said. The nephew had never negotiated the steep mountain roads. Halfway up, the driver lost control and the bus tumbled down a steep ravine, falling 300 feet and flipping multiple times.

“When the bus crashed, I didn’t have a single hope of living,” Tinoco said. “But then, I said, Father, give me force to resist this blow that I’m going to receive. Immediately after that, the bus hit a small tree” and stopped.

The driver died. Tinoco’s C6 and C7 vertebrae were broken. He couldn’t feel his legs, and his arms spasmed wildly.

“My head was wide open,” cut by glass, Tinoco recalls. “I couldn’t feel anything, but my hands kept moving. But my consciousness was tranquil. ... I said to my brother, take out my bag and get my wallet, so that my papers won’t be lost. In my wallet, I had many saints along, but those saints didn’t help me, the one who helped me was the highest God. And I give thanks to him for the patience that he’s given me.”

Perserverance

Tinoco spent the four years after his accident working to regain use of his arms. Since the accident, his primary income has been the industrial insurance payments he receives twice a month. Social Security helps pay for his medications, he said, but does not pay other bills.

Along the way he grew close to his nurse’s aide, Sherrie Smith, who eventually married Tinoco’s son Nicolas, becoming Sherrie Tinoco, now Executive Director of the Emergency Support Shelter in Kelso.

Sherrie Tinoco watched the injured man progress from “completely dependent” — unable to eat, dress or get out of bed by himself — to doing “a heck of a lot independently.”

Today, Amparo has strong arms from swimming and lifting weights. He easily moves around inside and outside his home in Longview’s Highlands neighborhood, where neighbors know him well. Considering the severity of the injury, his daughter-in-law says, it’s amazing he has regained so much independence.

Where other patients with spinal injuries may shrink from the public, Amparo Tinoco embraced his struggle.

“Any opportunity, it was always ‘yes, let’s go,’” Sherrie Tinoco said. “Never even a thought of, ‘how will people look at me?’ It’s just, ‘let’s go,’ and laughing and having fun and grateful to be there.”

Though he regained much use of his arms, Amparo Tinoco still can close his hands only halfway, and had to give up playing music. He used to play bijuela — a traditional instrument, like a small guitar — and sing with a group named Los Tigres in the belt-it-out norteno style.

“It’s the hardest part for him, those are the only times I’ve actually seen him cry is when he is watching people play (music),” Sherrie Tinoco said. “He used to sing, and with the lack of strength in his chest and his lungs, he can’t sing anymore.”

Immigrating

Tinoco’s patience is perhaps most clearly visible in his decade-long wait to secure visas to bring children Maria and Araceli from Mexico after his wife Victoria died in the mid-1980s.

He first applied in 1986 to bring the teenagers here. Having come across the border illegally himself when such trips were common, he chose not to have his girls risk the dangerous journey.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services approves visas based on time of application and family relationships, and hardship does not factor into the process. In 1996, Tinoco was finally able to bring the pair to Longview on visas. Araceli is now a legal permanent resident but not yet a citizen. Maria’s tangled in a bureaucratic process that requires long waits: as the adult child of a citizen, she’s on a list now accepting applicants from 1993, Sherrie Tinoco said.

Nicolas became a citizen several years ago after years as a legal permanent resident.

Tinoco’s neighbor Hannelore Massey, a German immigrant who also became a U.S. citizen — waiting only six months in 1976 — shares frequent tacos and laughs with Tinoco. She said she helped build the wheelchair ramp in front of Tinoco’s bungalow.

“He’s the nicest man I know. A lot of people don’t like Mexicans, but if I hear somebody say something about these guys, I open my mouth, I really defend them.”

Amparo Tinoco said he wanted to share details of his own long, strange trip to becoming American with a reporter because he can’t grip a pen or type.

“I give my testimony to help others,” he said, giving thanks to God. “I feel peaceful, happy.”

Blogger Jogger wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:52 AM:

" God bless you, Mr. Tinoco. A beautiful story about a beautiful man, an american man.

I don't want to take anything away from this story, but I do want to say that it's time to open the border. OPEN it! Throw the gates open and welcome the native people back to their land. There is no difference between our neighbors from Mexico and Native Americans. There were no fences, borders, boundaries until "Americans" arrived. "

cahuita wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:35 AM:

" Thank you so much Sr. Tinoco for sharing your beautiful story of courage and perserverance. You are indeed an american hero. "

Mr. Chinook wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:17 AM:

" If Blogger Jogger had his/her way we could re-name our towns El Kelso and La Longview. "

Kelso Guy wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:46 AM:

" Open the borders? That's just unAmerican (although El Kelso has a nice ring to it). "

skeezix wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:49 AM:

" Well Mr. Chinook,

By your reasoning, then we might be able to call you El Ignorant Fat Head. "

klb65 wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:03 AM:

" Wonderful story of perseverance! Thank you for sharing it Mr. Tinoco.

Mr. Chinook, you are a bigot and shame on you! Have you read what is on the base of the Statue of Liberty? A partial quote from the plaque on the base it says, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

It doesn't say we only accept those of European ancestry...it is for all. It is shameful to hear your kind of remark and I hope that Mr. Tinoco will forgive an "ugly American" statement that serves no purpose but to be unkind. "

Thought wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:18 AM:

" Since the accident, his primary income has been the industrial insurance payments he receives twice a month. Social Security helps pay for his medications!! Since he was here illegally ( then ) why are the taxpayers supporting him?? Deported 4 or 5 times in a year?? Hardly a hero.
Maybe we should just open the prisons and declare amnesty for everyone that has broken our laws!!!! NOT "

bmoc wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:28 AM:

" Many immigrants such as this gentleman are far better citizens than most white people who were born in this country. I love Mexican People!!! "

Mr. Chinook wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:43 AM:

" If you guys (bmoc,klb65,skeezix, Blogger Jogger, et.)are so "in love" with Latinos, why don't you move to Mexico? "Thought" has it right. Why are we calling criminals "heros"? America used to be thought of as "The Land Of Opportunity", now it is seen as "The Land Of Free Government Handouts". "

owlcreekcats wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:01 AM:

" when did our country become filled with such ignornant, hateful people? don't they realize the indians and mexicans were here many, many years before the white people came here and took their country from them? how dare we be so selfish? congratulations to mr. tinoco and all others who live here who want to be a part of this great country. "

klb65 wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:23 AM:

" Mr. Chinook, I know that I hardly ever see born and bread Americans on Welfare; certainly not second or third generation welfare recipients. My gosh, that would be just the worst thing ever! We are all so successful because we had the privilege of being born here and well, hardly a one of us receives government handouts...not! Your attitude sucks big time! I'm so grateful that there was no one on Ellis Island with your mindset when my grandparents immigrated to the United States. Where would most of us "Americans" be now if they had shared your philosophy? "

just an opinion wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:25 AM:

" Congratulations Mr. Tinoco. I commend you for becoming a legalized citizen. I have read both comments of approval and disapproval. I personally feel that as americans, we should welcome other nationalities into our country but it should be done the right way. We all know it isn't most of the time. I seriously don't believe people's frustration with the Mexican immagration is an issue with them being Mexican. I have heard and tend to agree with the major problem being that pretty soon America's first language will be Spanish. While it does make it easier for that group of immigrants, we did not show the same consideration for any other immigrants. I know lots of Germans and Russians that have immigrated and they needed to learn the English language. I don't ungerstand the difference. Technically every item in the store should have the product info in English, Spanish, Russian, German, French............Why the difference? Lastly I totally believe that the Mexican population has the right to fly their "home" country's flag if they wish (that's the American right) but I would think if they love this country well enough to live here, you should be flying the American one right along side of it. "

bmoc wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:27 AM:

" Mexicans never left this country. They have been making it a better place the whole time. It is ignorant, racist, and sad individuals who destroy the fabric of our national identity. I repeat, I love Mexicans. And Chinook, the reason we have government handouts is so that we don't have sick and disabled people dying in our streets. Perhaps a few dead Mexicans in your street would satisfy you? "

DADDYO45 wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:29 AM:

" Owlcreekcats: When did you like people that break our laws? Its not hate its the frickin law. You know saying its hate and being hate are two different things. This guy broke our laws Quote. I was deported so many times, Tinoco says. In one year alone he was dropped off in Tijuana or Mexicali four or five times.
If a break the rules or drive drunk, well I go to jail. Shouldn't you? "

Thought wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:44 AM:

" Re-bmoc
How many dead Americans are there due to the illegal activities of the people not here legally?? Thats NOT racist dude its a fact.. I also feel anyone coming here legally should be welcome but those are not the ones we are speaking of. I'm Thought and I approve this message. So its been said so let it be written !!!!!! "

just an opinion wrote on Aug 7, 2008 12:22 PM:

" I meant to say that it should be accepted (because it is or should be the American way) for Mexican immigrants to fly their home countries flag but if they choose to fly the Mexican flag they should be flying the flag of the country (America) that has welcomed them into theirs. "

LviewLocal wrote on Aug 7, 2008 12:41 PM:

" I don't know why the negativity & narrow-mindedness of this town, not to mention this country surprises me anymore, but it does. This is a beautiful story, and regardless of how you personally feel about immigration, you should be able to appreciate this mans struggle. Shame on all of you who chose to turn this into an ugly debate (and it's a stretch to call it a debate, as I haven't seen many good, valid points raised, mostly just ignorant rants). Congratulations to Mr. Tinoco and thank you for sharing your story. "

DUH wrote on Aug 7, 2008 12:59 PM:

" Re: owlcreekcats... please enlighten me on when it was that we took the Mexicans country from them? "

klb65 wrote on Aug 7, 2008 1:03 PM:

" Imagine your mother giving birth to you while on vacaton in Mexico. Would you have dual citizenship? Imagine your mother giving birth to you while she is in the US illegally, are you an American by birth or are you a Mexican citizen? Or do you have dual citizenship? Imagine your mother giving birth to you while she is on Welfare, what are the odds that her daugther will give birth to children while on Welfare? It's not about rights, it's about thinking..critical thinking. None of us are any better than the next person no matter our birth location, color of skin or financial situation. Rich, poor or in between..none of that matters. What does matter is the person inside our God-given body and nothing else. We are victims of fate when it comes to where we are born; it is what we do with the gift of life that is important. And as for Mr. Tinoco breaking the law, most of us do this everytime we go over the speed limit, don't pay our taxes, take a pen home from work or countless other things that are not above board..should we then send you German's back to the old country?? Of course not! Yes, Mr. Tinoco was deported and he admitted it; but he was doing a job that many here wouldn't even touch and for that his life is forever altered. "

Adolph Oliver-Bush wrote on Aug 7, 2008 1:28 PM:

" I never thought I would say this, but I agree with Mr. Chinook and klb65 . And I'm not even a redneck....... "

Billy Hill wrote on Aug 7, 2008 1:35 PM:

" I just wish more "Mexicans" would put as much work into bettering their own country and make it a place that Americans would like to visit and work as they do trying to break into the United States of America. If they did, as early Americans made this country into what they want it to be, I would have respect for them and their efforts. Until then build bigger and higher fences and keep them in their own country until they fix it. They have all of the oil and natural resources to do just that....now GET TO WORK! "

Common Sense wrote on Aug 7, 2008 1:55 PM:

" So he steals himself into the country illegally a multitude of times and then finally tries to do it the right way. How is this supposed to be a feel good story? He should have never been granted citizenship as he obviously never cared about following the laws. It sure is a good thing he got his citizenship and now can collect we the taxpayers SS retirement money considering he never paid into it. Come on over, hop on for a free ride. How many freeloaders do people really think the system can support without complete collapse. "

Thought wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:02 PM:

" Re- DUH

The MexicanAmerican War was an armed military conflict between the United States and Mexico from 1846 to 1848 in the wake of the 1845 U.S. annexation of Texas. Mexico did not recognize the secession and subsequent military victory by Texas in 1836.

"Remember the Alamo" "

owlcreekcats wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:03 PM:

" Duh....you want enlightenment as to when we took land that wasn't ours from the mexicans? how about the conclusion of the mexican-american war of 1848 when it was annexed by the united states and made a state in 1850? before that, people of spanish, english and mexican ruled california. "

bmoc wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:03 PM:

" Mexicans are worried about bettering their own country, as many send money back to their families, earned from the hard work they do here. No point arguing, Mexicans rock, and they should be allowed to enter and leave this country freely. We should be able to go there and leave freely also. "

mclovin it wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:31 PM:

" Wonderful story. Lets see if I got the facts straight. He was here as an illegal, got hurt and now is a burden to American tax payers and then we grant him citizenship to boot. Wow, the American dream come true. As to klb65 when stated he was doing work Americans wouldn't even touch. Americans will do the work, they have for many, many years but since an illegal will do it for half the pay who do think they will hire? As for the rest of you, we took the land from Mexico after a war that they started (remember the Alamo anybody?)and how do you think the Native Americans got their land, they took it from other Native Americans who were weaker than them. No sympathy from me on that. "

owlcreekcats wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:37 PM:

" i meant to say...people of spanish,indian and mexican ruled california. we "stole" the land from the mexicans as well as from the native american indians... "

TheGenius wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:37 PM:

" Anyone ever heard the term "Manifest Destiny?" Or "Louisiana Purchase?" "

mclovin it wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:43 PM:

" bmoc: There are many fine Mexicans who I admire and respect. They are the ones who do the right thing by following the laws of this country and help make this a better place for people of all races. That said an illegal is a criminal and should not be rewarded for breaking the law. This man, although he sounds like he is a good man will never contribute anything to this country and will only be a drain on our resources. There were many, and I mean many Europeans turned back at Ellis Island because they could not and would never be a asset to this country. Harsh but true. "

DUH wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:59 PM:

" Heres one for you owlcreekcats.... You ever hear of the Mexican cession? We bought and paid for the land from the Mexicans. Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, signed in February 1848, provided for the following:
The United States received all of the land originally sought by John Slidell, including present-day New Mexico, Arizona, California, Texas and parts of Colorado, Utah and Nevada; this area is often called the "Mexican Cession"
The Mexicans received $15 million for those lands and were relieved of responsibility for claims by American citizens (about $3 million)
The border between the two nations was fixed at the Rio Grande.
I don't see it as we stole anything from the Mexicans. "

owlcreekcats wrote on Aug 7, 2008 3:28 PM:

" duh...

oh yes....we paid the mexicans and treated them fairly just like when we put the indians on reservations and for their own good... "

Kalama98625 wrote on Aug 7, 2008 3:33 PM:

" I don't think people are reading the article very carefully. Amparo was a legal immigrant when he was injured on the job. His payments are from his employers insurance, NOT from any source supported by taxpayer dollars at all. He is now a US Citizen, still being supported by the same employer's insurance. He hasn't "cost" anyone anything.

Thank you Amparo for sharing your amazing story, for contributing to our community and for not being afraid of the judgements of other people. "

DUH wrote on Aug 7, 2008 4:23 PM:

" I stated fact in my comment owlcreekcats. All you stated in yours were your beliefs. If you think this country is so unfair to illegals, maybe you could show your support to them by moving to the country that treats them so fairly. Mexico. The country that treats them so fair that they would rather live here, in a country that (in your eyes) treats them so unfairly. Maybe Mexico's fairness is just too much for them to handle since they can be sent home 4 or 5 times and still be so determined to come back here and be treated sooooo unfairly. owlcreekcats, your arguments make no sense. "

Adolph Oliver-Bush wrote on Aug 7, 2008 5:23 PM:

" Kalama98625 is sadly mistaken... He is a drain on the taxpayers. What do you thing Industrial Insurance is? It is a tax, paid by the employer. When a claim in paid, we all pay for it in higher insurance premiums. What do you think SSI is?? And I'm not good with numbers, but I am sure over the years he has received far more benefits than any premiums he paid...And that isn't a judgement....It is a fact.... "

kelso gringo wrote on Aug 7, 2008 5:53 PM:

" Welcome to Longview, land of the hateful, and home of the ignorant.
The U.S. government took land from the Native Americans as well as the Mexicans. We put Natives onto reservations and pushed Mexicans to the south, onto the land that we did not want. "

bmoc wrote on Aug 7, 2008 6:18 PM:

" And when all you rednecks are permanently disabled from working at your NASCAR job, then you will be a drain on our resources too. But we all pay, b/c we don't want you to die in the street. As stated above, this proud man was a working U.S. Citizen when he was injured, and should be taken care of just like the rest of us. I'm proud to have him here, and has done a lot for us just by telling his story. Many of you are upset that he came here without proper immigration status. If you are so sure that your ancestry got here legally, I dare you to prove it. I know my great grandfather was a Irish thief and horse trader who came here illegally. You gonna throw me out? "

stink wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:37 PM:

" Kalama 98625 is correct.. Reagan gave this man amnesty in this country. He's being paid through insurance, like many people would be paid if they had such an accident on the job. This guy is now a citizen and I salute him for doing so. I also am glad he's able to get around better than before.
And the guy is 63.. seems like my parents are that age and also no SS... not like it's a strange thing. "

Adolph Oliver-Bush wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:55 PM:

" Reagan gave this man amnesty. He gave the rest of us "trickle down economics". What a fine legacy.....And for you people that think he had insurance, you are wrong. He had L&I insurance, which is NOT the same an any other type of insurance. Obviously you have never had to run your own business....It is a TAX!!! Plain and simple.... "

PINEAPPLE wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:08 PM:

" Hola' Mr. Tinoco & Aloha Mutter: "Everyone gets their 15 minutes of fame in life you just got yours so toss the Chiles and steaks on the BBQ Praising Mother Mary for your blessings. You are a proud man with a wonderful family who are supportive with many supportive encouraging friends. So for those who would choose to post a comment online regarding this exceptional article "LET THEM EAT CAKE?" Here in the Islands of Hawaii we have the largest diverse population of cultures and ethnicity including African American, Puerto Rican, Mexican, Pilipino, Germans, Japanese, Thai, Chinese, Vietnamese, Hawaiian, Samoan, Tongan, Fijian, and Korean and Caucasian. We live without Racism here in the islands. We use a local saying here, Lucky We Live Aloha. Living here for 26 years I know Ill never return to the US Mainland rather remain here in the 50th State in the Union; The State of Hawaii for its people beauty and non-discriminatory way of life; unlike what I see online in Longview. Ignorance is bliss but unfortunately it surfaces its disgusting face in every aspect of society. Except Ive NEVER-EVER, heard a derogatory word expressed regarding an individual of any ethnicity in Hawaii. We share our Aloha with the world not waste energy on negative comments posted online from uneducated individuals with nothing worth even reading. So celebrate enjoy your 15 minutes remaining Proud to be an American, just like my German Mutter.

Aloha Pumehana God Bless,
Mutters Eldest Son
Thomas "

loudly wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:16 PM:

" Who cares if this guy was here illegally, he sacrificed for this country. Of course he is a contributor to the more than 20 B-B-B-B-Billion that leaves this country every year towards unofficial aid to mexico. Then I read that "we" stole the land from native americans and mexicans. What a hoot. If I have read correctly, Mexicans are currently in the process of stealing from the Chiapas indians (hence the current unrest in some mexican areas). Don't try to portray a third world country as being superior to us. If it were, they would all stay there. Last, if some of you believe we "stole" the land then you are more than welcome to give your piece back. My guess is that most of you are non-property owners wanting more from the rich. "

owlcreekcats wrote on Aug 8, 2008 11:14 AM:

" loudly....why would you assume that people who care for other humans don't own their own homes? i've worked all my life and yes, i own my home...bought AND paid for!

here's an unknown quote that was given me many years ago:
Really great people always see the good in others; it's the little man who
looks for the worst and finds it.

and,we all have the right to our opinions. "

DUH wrote on Aug 8, 2008 12:49 PM:

" Imagine if you will... You get up in the middle of the night. You go to the kitchen for a drink of water. As you are drinking it, you are looking out the window above your sink. You see someone climbing your fence and jumping down into your back yard. What do you do? A) Call the police? B) Grab a weapon and head out there to protect yourself and property? Or C) Run out there with open arms, give him a hug and welcome him into your family? Remember, he is on your property illegally. What will you do? What will you do??? "

ThereGoesThatTriptoHawaii wrote on Aug 8, 2008 11:10 PM:

" Put pressure on your government to lay into the Mexican president to make his countryman's way of life better. How often is the topic of 'illegal' immigrants brought up in respect to Canada? Canadians don't want to leave Canada. But a large number of Mexicans do. And they want to come to the greatest country on the planet. Why be selfish? "

vet wrote on Aug 16, 2008 9:22 PM:

" what a lot of you fail to see! is that if mexico did have california and texas, it would be no diffrent from the rest of corrupt mexico. the american people made this country what it is! not from hand outs but hard work and determination. all countries have those that dont want to work or want what other people have. but our own nation can not support others coming into our country and getting welfair and other support like ssi.the time just might becoming that those of you that are saying give it to them might just have to take from your selfs to do it.then we will see just how many of you will give what you have. look at what happend in africa. i say send them all back and come here legally if not dont come, we dont want you.i have fought in two wars and i have the right to demand we enforce our laws! those that do not agree do not love the freedom and life this country has giving you and should move out, like maybe mexico. "

Ms. Z wrote on Aug 19, 2008 5:54 PM:

" In reference to vet's comment that it was the American people who made this country what it is, well wasn't it actually the immigrants who came here from Europe, Asia, Ireland etc who made it what it is from their hard work and determination? Everyone here has roots that sprouted somewhere else. "

vet wrote on Aug 20, 2008 6:31 PM:

" Re Ms. Z. yes your right, but almost all of them came in leagally. because you know there had to be some that wernt. my great grand parents are from Germany, but they came in leagally and thats the way it should be. no law breakers allowed. "

banana hammock wrote on Aug 27, 2008 12:42 PM:

" To Blogger Jogger

There were no fences, borders, boundaries until "Americans" arrived. "

have you lookedinto the social structure back then. They had a few raids now and agian and you could probably figure your child wh=ould be stolen from time to time., Oh wait that hasnt changed has it? "

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