Kelso passes panhandling ordinance
Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:36 PM PDT
By Amy M.E. Fischer
Printable version
E-mail this articleThe Kelso City Council on Tuesday approved a revised version of a panhandling ordinance it struck down two weeks ago.
The council voted 6-1 in favor of the ordinance, which would prohibit people from soliciting within 25 feet of ATM machines, building entrances, pay phones or bus stops.
The ordinance also bans begging after dark, on private property without the owner's written permission or from someone getting in or out of a vehicle. Soliciting by coercion would be unlawful. So would panhandling along the roadside, unless vehicles being solicited had a legal place to park to finish the transaction.
Exceptions to the ban on soliciting by the roadside include summoning help in an emergency, picketing or protesting.
The misdemeanor offense would be punishable by up to 90 days in jail and/or a fine of up to $1,500.
Kelso Police Chief Wayne Nelson said an officer who witnessed a violation of the ordinance could make an arrest. Otherwise, the officer would issue a citation to panhandlers who prompt complaints from citizens and business owners, he said.
Mayor David Futcher, who first proposed the ordinance at the June 3 meeting, said a citizen reported seeing a panhandler threaten a motorist with a knife after the motorist pulled over to confront him.
Councilman Todd McDaniel, who works as a sheriff's deputy, voted against the measure, arguing that the city already has laws to address such crimes.
"We're building a law for the two complaints we've had. I just feel like it's a knee jerk reaction," he said. "I just hope that the council takes the same type of action on the other complaints that we've had and makes new laws."
The newly worded ordinance was not much different from the one the council discarded in a 6-1 vote on June 3 on the grounds it was unneeded, too broadly worded and unjust to the truly needy. Some council members expressed misgivings that restrictions on panhandling would hamper school cheerleaders' fundraisers such as car washes and doughnut sales.
Futcher said Monday a few council members seemed willing to reconsider adopting a panhandling ordinance after citizens contacted them to express their outrage over the council rejecting the measure the first time around.
Councilman John Karnofski worked with Futcher to tweak the wording to address their council peers' concerns.
"I thought the first ordinance was too broad, but I think this scaled-back version is more appropriate, better for the city," Karnofski said Tuesday.
The Longview City Council adopted an ordinance targeting aggressive panhandlers in April, despite the vehement objects of several citizens who felt the council was infringing on civil liberties.
Longview's ordinance makes it illegal to solicit money at bus stops, in driveways, on public transportation, within 50 feet of ATM machines or on private property without the owner's written permission. The ordinance also prohibits beggars from coming closer than 3 feet of people or blocking their pathway. It also bans soliciting anyone under age 16, following people who reject their requests or verbally abusing someone who refuses to give them money.
Those convicted of the misdemeanor crime in Longview face a maximum fine of $1,000 and/or 90 days in jail.
feistyone wrote on Jun 18, 2008 4:47 AM:
" Seems to me most of these people could find a job if they wanted one. I'm sure it would be minimum wage but it would be a little more dignified than begging. Quite a few I notice wear better shoes than I can afford and make more money begging than a lot of people with jobs. I think there should be a ban prohibiting beggars period. "
lilsue62 wrote on Jun 18, 2008 8:34 AM:
" Panhandling is not s way of life for me, it is a way to survive. If i get a ticket ill just sit it out in jail. Free room and board and a place to feel safe at. Here is another reason kelso and longview has went down the crapper. I was at a very well known grocery store in kelso yesterday. the woman who served me said she thinks homeless people should not be allowed to have foodstamps. I asked her why she said they have no place to put their food. I said yes they do in their bellies. She then asked me if i had some kind of income. I said yes i do i get $339 a month from the state. We all know that cant pay rent here. She then chastised me and said; well if you learned to manage your money better you would not be homeless. I had to ask this women if she was stupid or what? I think shes living in the wrong place. Let her live in my shoes for a month and see how she feels. I did one better for the store. I went directly to the manager and told her how i was treated and the manager was not happy. I hope this woman gets what she deserves. Maybe she will be in my boat sooner then she thinks. "
clay1976 wrote on Jun 18, 2008 8:44 AM:
" Bravo!! Hey, they can make a progressive decision after all. One step toward making Kelso a better place to be. Keep it up! "
Beer&Skittles wrote on Jun 18, 2008 9:00 AM:
" To lilsue62: Assuming you're at the library on the internet to read this article online and respond to it, if you spent the time looking for a job rather than at the library, you could have your own computer and a place to put it as well (and a place to store your food until you're ready to eat it). I understand how you choose to live. The problem is, you don't understand that most of us don't choose that way to live. We've struggled with the very same things you do, but we manage differently. And to those who say there are no jobs here...that's getting truer by the day. That's why people move. All through history people have moved to where the jobs are. And nobody was able to afford it then either. But they did it anyhow. "
lilsue62 wrote on Jun 18, 2008 9:19 AM:
" In regards to beer&skittles, you are as judgemental as the woman at the store. If you don't know me then don't judge me. I have been disabled for the past 7 years, worked 3 jobs at one time to raise my kids. Now i am in a wheelchair and the state has deemed me totally disabled and unable to work. Am i to go off some place and die all because a few people like you and the woman at the store can't deal with me. You try living off what i get from the state and see if you can make ends meat. Oh by the way this is my comp it was a gift from someone who actually cared. When longview and kelso learn to have a heart maybe then people won't be losing their jobs. Skittles can you hold down 3 jobs at once? I doubt it most men can't multitask. "
slanteyes wrote on Jun 18, 2008 9:45 AM:
" I think I will break into the business soon.
No responsibilities.
No taxes.
No overhead, unless you take your dog.
No risk of repetitive stress "carple tunel"
Outdoors.
Watch people all day.
By the way, where is the tax man on this issue? "
No responsibilities.
No taxes.
No overhead, unless you take your dog.
No risk of repetitive stress "carple tunel"
Outdoors.
Watch people all day.
By the way, where is the tax man on this issue? "
greenbean wrote on Jun 18, 2008 11:09 AM:
" "lilsue62", if you can type on a computer you can probably do a job, no matter what the state "deems" you. It's all a matter of attitude. "
tugtrio wrote on Jun 18, 2008 11:16 AM:
" Lilsue62: I have seen people that stand at the off ramps on HWY 512, leave there spot and walk over to there car, a newer model Lexus. I watched this person and her husband over a two year period of time do this. I have never given them or anyone else money, and never will. To anyone that is homeless there are lots of places to find help other then a street corner. "
lilsue62 wrote on Jun 18, 2008 11:48 AM:
" The small minds of the people who live is this area truely astound me to no end. To sit and watch someone for 2 year has to be a boring thing to do. I don't believe half the rumors people tell about homeless people. Like they make more money then the average joe on a job. I beg to differ. Oh now there is a husband and wife teaming up on hwy 512. they have a newer model car then tugtrio does i guess. I personally have tried all avenues in Longview to no avail. Some people fall through the cracks even if the good people of this area want to deny it. So keep your eyes closed and keep denying all you want. It still will not change the hearts of the good people of Longview and Kelso! "
avery's mom wrote on Jun 18, 2008 12:33 PM:
" When my husband was a little boy, his family was getting off of the freeway, and there was a "homeless" looking man sitting in a wheelchair at the end of the offramp. After a day of visiting, they were heading back to the freeway, where he witnessed the man stand up, fold up his wheelchair, and walk it back to his van. "It's a miracle" he said!
What a scam
I am now a single parent who is trying to make ends meat. I have $700 rent a month and I only make $900 s month. The state wont give me food stamps, the state wont help me pay for childcare so I can go to work full time, or go to school. But you know what, I manage. I'm not out standing at the entry ways of stores begging for peoples change, how degrading. I'm glad that the state wont help me out, and that I'm not standing out on a corner, I take pride in the fact knowing that I can do this on my own.
Beggars are nothing more than lazy people. It is not a way of life, and it is not a way to survive. GET A JOB! Someone will hire you, wheelchair or not, you are just too busy sitting on a corner to try to find that job. "
What a scam
I am now a single parent who is trying to make ends meat. I have $700 rent a month and I only make $900 s month. The state wont give me food stamps, the state wont help me pay for childcare so I can go to work full time, or go to school. But you know what, I manage. I'm not out standing at the entry ways of stores begging for peoples change, how degrading. I'm glad that the state wont help me out, and that I'm not standing out on a corner, I take pride in the fact knowing that I can do this on my own.
Beggars are nothing more than lazy people. It is not a way of life, and it is not a way to survive. GET A JOB! Someone will hire you, wheelchair or not, you are just too busy sitting on a corner to try to find that job. "
classic_mustang_chick wrote on Jun 18, 2008 12:45 PM:
" re: lilsue62
You say you don't have enough money for rent on 339 per month...then where do you keep your computer? How do you afford the internet?
I work hard for my money I too work 2-3 jobs at a time, plus I go to college. I would never give a dime to a person standing on a street corner. I pay enough in taxes that supports people that make bad decisions. "
You say you don't have enough money for rent on 339 per month...then where do you keep your computer? How do you afford the internet?
I work hard for my money I too work 2-3 jobs at a time, plus I go to college. I would never give a dime to a person standing on a street corner. I pay enough in taxes that supports people that make bad decisions. "
SPARROW wrote on Jun 18, 2008 12:59 PM:
" Regarding the statement from lilsue62 about receiving $339 a month, is that not the amount exactly that one receives before being approved by social security disability? If you had worked three jobs and paid into your social security benefit program, you would be receiving more than this $339.00, which is the usual for temporary assistance until you qualify. Anyone with computer skills has an opportunity to make money on the internet. There are thousands of beggars online with their own websites making a living asking for donations for their sympathetic stories. But leave your heart wrenching attempts to feel sorry for you elsewhere. It's a sad feeling to be needy and have to be compared to the fraudelent scamers that operate in this town, adding insult to injury for the truely needy. They will be the people that find the strength to move on to another place, because those worthy of a donatio or help are still seeking a better life. "
Atrucker wrote on Jun 18, 2008 2:12 PM:
" Boy the hawks and beares are out today.
who cares if she has a puter, none ya damn business really, and the only way to get shelter with that kind of money is with section 8 or other government program, hum over one thousand on waiting list for section 8, not good .
The reality is the person at store was a jerk! You go girl. Your doing the best with what the circumstances provide , if some one has a job for a wheel chair person , then step foreword,
and the rest of you nay sayers put a sock in it. "
who cares if she has a puter, none ya damn business really, and the only way to get shelter with that kind of money is with section 8 or other government program, hum over one thousand on waiting list for section 8, not good .
The reality is the person at store was a jerk! You go girl. Your doing the best with what the circumstances provide , if some one has a job for a wheel chair person , then step foreword,
and the rest of you nay sayers put a sock in it. "
AnotherLameOpinion wrote on Jun 18, 2008 2:52 PM:
" To Lil Sue: Even if all you say about yourself is true, you must admit that you are a rare exception to the rule. I'm sorry, but I am not usually approached for money by a disabled person in a wheelchair. It is usually some smelly drunk guy, or some young "crackhead" looking scroungy person. I honestly believe most homelessness is caused by alcohol or drug abuse. In the late eighties, I too was homeless for a short while. I never panhandled. I did go to Salvation Army for some free meals, and I did dumpster dive a few restaurants, but panhandling is really for the people without enough pride in themselves to do something about their situation. It's one thing to ask someone to help you help yourself, it's another to ask for a handout. I know for a fact on SSI you are allowed to make a small amount of money per month(in addition to SSI). I suggest you try the Goodwill or CAP or something along that line. Certainly there must be one of those agencies that could help you do SOMETHING. If you are that low income, you could also attend LCC on grants or loans. There are many disabled people out there leading full productive lives. Don't use your wheelchair as an excuse to give up on life. Do something about it. "
lilsue62 wrote on Jun 18, 2008 3:02 PM:
" In regards to sparrow and mustang chick, You are right sparrow $339 dollars is what i get from welfare while i wait for our government to decide if i am sick enough to recieve what i have paid into. Now for mustang chick i keep my comp strapped onto the back of my wheelchair. I am not to trusting of very many people out here they watch every move i make so it stays with me. For internet there are many places around town that offer free wifi. If your in college you should of figured that out by now. The jobs you have chick are they fulltime jobs or just parttime jobs? Mine were 3 full time jobs and yes i did help people out when i knew they were truely needy. There are many druggies and alcoholics out there just looking to get their next fix. I'm out there just trying to get my next meal. Would you still be willing to walk away knowing i'm not one of the druggies or an alcoholic? "
lilsue62 wrote on Jun 18, 2008 3:06 PM:
" I want to thank Atrucker for speaking up. I would be so glad to take any job if someone would give me one. I am not a lazy person; just someone down on their luck. Atrucker must be one of the few peeps in Longview or Kelso who has a heart to see the truth out there god bless him and his family. "
bluebear wrote on Jun 18, 2008 3:22 PM:
" My heart doesn't bleed for the panhandler. The two "boys" (18/19) who stand by the Jiffy Lube in Kelso live at home with grandma in Longview. They aren't homeless or disabled. I see them both riding their BMX bikes through alleys at night like they are Lance *Freaking* Armstrong. People of Cowlitz County don't need to be approached near ATMs or while trying to load kids and grocerys into a car. Thats creepy. Thank you City Council. "
lilsue62 wrote on Jun 18, 2008 3:28 PM:
" regarding anotherlameoption, I have been to cap and goodwill to no avail. I also use to go to salvation army for a hot meal. Until it got so over run by crack heads, meth heads and alcoholics who were bringing in stolen items to sell or try to sell. I had one druggy approach me and he started begging me for the meds i get for my pain. I told him to go to hell and that was the last time i went there. If you don't feel safe in a church where are you to turn to then? I have a college degree in early childhood education which i taught for years and loved it. I tried to be retrained through the state. by the time they call me in for my training it was to late i had got carpal tunnel in both of my hands and they said it was from using my walker and wheelchair to much. So now they refuse to retrain me to do repeditive stuff because of my hands. I will be on Social security soon I hope. Its been 2 years now since i signed up and my hearing is coming up july 17th. Maybe the judge won't wait another 2 years to let me know. "
Zucchini wrote on Jun 18, 2008 4:26 PM:
" So, there I was at the dump when somebody asked if I knew where they could rent an old beat up truck to do some yard work, and get the brush to the dump... I took my dog for a walk and let them use my truck for two hours... didn't know their names, criminal history, phone number...whatever... I trusted they would get the truck back to me,,,, and they did - with a full tank of gas! My point, all you people that are skeptical of panhandlers are focusing all your energy on the negative aspect of it... try doing something fun... you know the sign that says, "will work for food"... go buy a picnic lunch (for two) and go back and sit on the corner, eat lunch with them and listen to their story... it could be a fun experiment. You may find they have income but do not qualify for some special medical treatment their child needs, or they have an IQ just high enough to learn how to "get by"... or, they may be scammers... but, stereotyping really does not belong in this form or any other.
I'm annoyed... good bye! "
I'm annoyed... good bye! "
AnotherLameOpinion wrote on Jun 18, 2008 4:29 PM:
" To:LilSue, I am very sorry about your situation. You are obviously one of those rare exceptions to the rule. Unfortunately all the crackheads have ruined that avenue of income for you as well. However, that being said, I really wouldn't view a disabled person in a wheelchair panhandleing nearly the same as I view a grungy alcoholic/druggie doing the same. I don't generally give out money to panhandlers, but I very well might to someone obviously at least fairly physically disabled. The flak you are receiving on this page is an obvious sign of our(the community at large) growing frustration over those that give people like you a bad name. Don't take it personally. I and others are just tired of those that are able yet still refuse to do anything for themselves but be a drain on society. If this doesn't apply to you, don't worry about it. Obviously by your demeanor on here I would say it's likely your not an agressive panhandler or many of these things this law is set to combat. I would very seriously doubt any officer would haul away a disabled lady in a wheelchair for panhandleing anyhow (unless possibly you were rude or pissed him off). There are exceptions to every rule/stereotype/generalization, and you seem like one of them. Have a nice day, and don't take any of this too personally!!! "
lilsue62 wrote on Jun 18, 2008 5:19 PM:
" Oh I don't take anything on here to heart. i want to wish everyone well and pray that whats happened to me never happens to anyone else. sweet dreams all and if u see me out wave and say hi i won't bite much. free wi fi for those out there are at the hospital, safeways, burgerville and some of the small coffee shops. when your on the streets u learn alot more. "
frankenzombie wrote on Jun 18, 2008 6:37 PM:
" I turn my head the other way whenever I see someone asking for a handout. It's not because I think all of them are horrible. It's because I don't know which ones are there because they need to be from the ones that are there because they are lazy. I used to always give my spare change or something to eat until a guy punched my window. I had 2 dollars to my name so I went and bought a couple dollar menu burgers. He asked me for money and when I said I didn't have any he chased down my car and punched the window. Now I really don't feel comfortable dealing with that situation. I feel for the people that actually need help though. "
Atrucker wrote on Jun 19, 2008 12:54 AM:
" Lilsue62, I watched a 40k job go in the toilet, due to my health, lost a 3bd room house,that I had remodeled, had to live on 250 a month till my disability kicked in,and yes this is a sorry state to be from . I get $ 10.00 a month food stamps some medicare and that is it. If not for the VA I would be screwed because of all my health issues.
Hey if none of you have been pulled my your heels through the trenches , you have no where to speak , this stuff gets gut wrenching when your in it . And I can tell you this state does not care about you once your past 60.
I was one week out of open heart surgery, and got an eviction notice , for using to much power that I paid for , go figure !! I should have sued the pants off them , cuz I would have won.
Long story , short walk a mile in lilsues shoes before spoutin off .
Thank you Sue , for the kind words .
I have helped more than one person in your situation. And I live out of town . "
Hey if none of you have been pulled my your heels through the trenches , you have no where to speak , this stuff gets gut wrenching when your in it . And I can tell you this state does not care about you once your past 60.
I was one week out of open heart surgery, and got an eviction notice , for using to much power that I paid for , go figure !! I should have sued the pants off them , cuz I would have won.
Long story , short walk a mile in lilsues shoes before spoutin off .
Thank you Sue , for the kind words .
I have helped more than one person in your situation. And I live out of town . "
kerchak wrote on Jun 19, 2008 5:51 AM:
" The bottom line is these people would GO AWAY if no one greased their palms. If you feed a stray cat, not only will he continue to return, but all his stray cat buddies will get the word and come a runnin'. "
lucky1 wrote on Jun 19, 2008 8:08 AM:
" I always like the sign saying they need gas but they arent by a gas station. A couple of years ago I was carrying my 4 year old daughter in the rain and running to our car. A guy asked for money and I said no. He preceded to kick my car. I called the police and they said there was nothing they could do about it. I feel it is the stores responsibility to keep people like that away from the shoppers. I also agree with everyone else. There are jobs available most of these people just dont want to do them. "
Cheney119 wrote on Jun 19, 2008 10:24 AM:
" We're building a law for the two complaints we've had. I just feel like it's a knee jerk reaction," he said. "I just hope that the council takes the same type of action on the other complaints that we've had and makes new laws." This quote is from a law enforcement officer Councilman Todd McDaniel, you have my vote for county commissioner. I'll trust his opinion as opposed to the ignorant yahoos blogging here. You make the Grinch seem like a good samaritian. Nobody wants to encourage begging, not giving money to beggars will do that. "
Atrucker wrote on Jun 19, 2008 5:34 PM:
" Re:: To Cheney119, I AM NOT AN IGNORANT YAHOO, as you would suggest,prehaps look in your back yard for some of the stuff you have said .
When living in a glass house one should not threow stones. No one was begging here . it started out with a store clerk being rude, and assuming way to many other things, JUST LIKE YOU ARE DOING.
Unrewarded kindness goes a long ways, remember that some time Cheney119. "
When living in a glass house one should not threow stones. No one was begging here . it started out with a store clerk being rude, and assuming way to many other things, JUST LIKE YOU ARE DOING.
Unrewarded kindness goes a long ways, remember that some time Cheney119. "
kitten wrote on Jun 19, 2008 7:02 PM:
" Giving to beggars is like telling them that they are too worthless to take care of themselves. How can you people do this to another human being? It is disgraceful, absolutely disgraceful!!! "
Cheney119 wrote on Jun 19, 2008 10:14 PM:
" Trucker I don't know what your even suggesting I do. Give to beggars? No thanks that just encourages bad behavior, drug abuse, it just prepetuates a lifestyle of homelessness, hopelessness and helplessness. But the new law is completely unnecessary. I'm talking about the ignorant yahoos that think this law is necessary or even constitutional. Begging is guarenteed free speech. I agree about he clerk that's not what the article is about, but it's a worthy topic. Her job is to serve her customers, she should be FIRED, simply for not treating the all customers the same. Although it doesn't surprise me in Longview, customer service is a rare commodity around here. "
missymae wrote on Jun 19, 2008 10:22 PM:
" The thing I don't like about beggars Is the fact If you went Into walmart and bought them some food sure they would be grateful but the fact Is and I'm not an expert on this but alot of them are looking for money for drugs and booze or cigarettes you can tell by just looking at them like the one guy who kept saying he ran out of gas and needs money to get back home how many people doe's he think he can fool by using the same excuse every time I'm glad they can be stopped now for It. "
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