Pointed questions at Rainier recall meeting
Thursday, May 8, 2008 11:59 PM PDT
By Barbara LaBoe
Printable version
E-mail this articleRAINIER — School board members facing recall answered questions, defended their actions and asked for support Thursday during a forum on the upcoming election.
There were some tense moments, though, as conflicts of the past year again boiled to the surface.
Six of the district's seven board members face recall in the May 27 election. Five — Dale Archibald, Penny Blahm, Rod Harding, Bill Scholten and Chad Womack — attended Thursday's forum sponsored by the Rainier Chamber of Commerce. Scott Schuff, also facing recall, had a work conflict. Alison Dale-Moore, on the board since December, is not eligible for recall.
The tone of the meeting was mostly supportive of the board, and no recall leaders attended the meeting. Organizer Russ Crawford was at his child's previously scheduled school program, according to an acquaintance.
The meeting did grow tense at one point, though, and several residents had pointed questions.
Jody Blackburn asked about employees who have allegedly been told they'd lose their job if they speak out about concerns with the district. Board members replied that proper grievance policy has to be followed, which can include an employee being told not to discuss the matter publicly until it's resolved.
Jim "Red" Coffman said residents used to be able to address questions during board meetings but "now there's a list there telling you what you can't do," and that answers can take 30 days.
Archibald said the board must follow the law and not allow personnel and other private issues to be discussed in public.
Kathy Byrd told the board that no matter what they believe about their polices and procedures, the fact that the community remains upset means they're not communicating effectively.
"The whole problem I see in this whole mess is perception," Byrd said. "If a person perceives they're not being listened to, that's their reality. ... People have to have a venue to vent, and even if it's negative the board has to listen to that."
Shiron Eddy wondered if the board is the true focus of the recall, asking if the real goal isn't to replace Superintendent Michael Carter.
Womack cautioned that recalling the board doesn't mean Carter would be fired.
"They're in for a rude awakening," Womack said of recall supporters hoping to oust Carter. "They haven't had to sit through attorneys telling them what you can and cannot do."
Carter and then-Junior/Senior High School Principal Jeff Gilbert clashed last year, leading the district to reprimand both of them. Gilbert quit rather than sign a plan of improvement that would be administrated by Carter.
Also caught up in the Carter-Gilbert matter was Jay Davies, a longtime counselor and administrator who was suspended 17 days with pay after uninviting Carter and his wife, Laurie Kash, to a staff party at Davies' home. Thursday, Davies asked the board members why they didn't intervene or get his side during the incident.
Womack, saying he hadn't been able to comment until Davies stated the facts in a public meeting, called the matter regrettable and said both men could have acted better and prevented the ensuing power struggle.
"I think you both had an opportunity to say we're adults and walk away from it," Womack said. "And then we wouldn't be where we're at today."
Womack said it was obvious all sides had made mistakes during the tumultuous year, which he said was "hell" on him as a board member. He added that he worried the real people suffering are the children.
After several questions on the topic, Carter — who was not running the meeting — declared the matter over with and said the meeting should move on. He added he saved the district from litigation by not allowing Davies to discriminate against district employees (himself and Kash) and that the matter was settled.
"I prevented litigation and that's it," Carter said.
When Davies continued with his questions, the two men briefly bickered.
Archibald told Davies he knew about and could have followed the employee grievance policy.
There were several board supporters, though, who spoke out against the need for and the $3,000 to $5,000 cost of a recall. More than one received applause.
"If you don't like the school board, then to through the proper process and run for the position (during the 2009 election) if you want it and vote them out," said retired district employee Larry Wallace.
Board members also urged all Rainier residents to vote, saying they need the community's support to move on.
"We find ourselves in the same place we were a year ago because of this recall, and we have not healed," Harding said. Voting against the recall "gives the board a mandate to put this issue behind us."
Why Attack wrote on May 9, 2008 6:19 AM:
" Dale why did you feel it necessary to attack Katie about a buss issue. Why the rumor about strawberries. You are the Chairman and leader act like one!! "
Employee silence wrote on May 9, 2008 6:44 AM:
" What is this about gag orders so Rainier School employees cant speak about what their boss are doing to them? Now I know why the staff wont talk. They could lose their jobs. Is this legal?
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RECALL NOW wrote on May 9, 2008 6:48 AM:
" There is the reason I will vote to recall the board, right in your article, Carter once again stepped in where he had no business to and tried to stop dissent against himself and began tooting his own horn. The board is a rubber stamp for Carter and even though removing them won't necessarily remove Carter, perhaps we can get a Board that does what it is there to do and gives the Superintendent his instructions and not the other way around.
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Party wrote on May 9, 2008 7:55 AM:
" All i can say is if your a teacher, and your having a party at your own house you better invite super Mike or you will be sorry. Dont expect the board to back you. Vote yes people. "
RHS Alum wrote on May 9, 2008 8:12 AM:
" "Prevented litigation?" That's a load. It was Davies's personal party, held at his private property, and he had a right to invite whomever he wanted to. So what if he didn't invite the Carters? That's not discrimination... It's just Carter being petty. The Board should have stepped in and handled this situation. "
Smith wrote on May 9, 2008 8:20 AM:
" Why am I not surprised to read that the re-call organizers couldn't make this meeting either? They have done nothing to convince me the school board is guilty of any wrongdoing and have made themselves look bad in the process. I will vote NO on the re-call. "
Fence sitter wrote on May 9, 2008 8:49 AM:
" I have been leaning toward a no vote after reading the answers the board members had I am not impressed and will vote yes on the recall. "
Just wondering wrote on May 9, 2008 8:50 AM:
" Is Carter now back on the plan for improvement, after his bickering? "
to smith wrote on May 9, 2008 8:51 AM:
" ok, then why was this meeting held during an already existing school event?
sounds very fishy to me.
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sounds very fishy to me.
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Rainier Parent wrote on May 9, 2008 8:54 AM:
" to RHS Alum.... ""Prevented litigation?" That's a load. It was Davies's personal party".. It was not about the party it was about Davies using district property to promote his party that was the problem...If he would have done it by mail or by phone or in person it would not have been an issue..... So yes Carter is right... Is it Dumb?? Yes! Is it petty?? Yes! But the man is correct!!! We may not like it but he is right!!! So the board can not do much about it if he is right!!! "
Wow wrote on May 9, 2008 8:55 AM:
" Jay Davies, a longtime counselor and administrator who was suspended 17 days with pay after uninviting Carter and his wife, Laurie Kash, to a staff party at Davies' home. Thursday, Davies asked the board members why they didn't intervene or get his side during the incident. That alone gets a yes vote from me!!!!!
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To Rainier parent wrote on May 9, 2008 9:03 AM:
" Come on Jay was suspended for not inviting Carter. You can spin it anyway you want. Carter used the same computers to email everyone and say the party was cancelled when it wasn't. Typical Carter with no one to awnser to. "
Rainier Parent wrote on May 9, 2008 9:04 AM:
" to WOW... Same thing as above your post..... What can the board do if Carter is in the right by law??? someone answer this for me??? that is right... nothing... if he is in the right and Davies's is in the wrong and Davies's refused to change his stance Carter was left with no choice but to protect the school from litigation and suspend him (with pay) for voilating the rules... He got paid, he had his party without Carter, Carter prevented a lawsuit... Problem solved MOVE ON!!! "
Funny wrote on May 9, 2008 9:09 AM:
" The Davies issue according to alot of board supporters was one of the things people were being lied to so the would sign the petion. Hmm. Truth is out now. Sounds like they were being told the truth. "
Hang on wrote on May 9, 2008 9:09 AM:
" Seems strange that everyone is attacking the board. Uh the "party" was a district activity to my understanding for staff and faculty, paid out of a fund they have. It is legal to ask employee's to not speak of issues that are in discussion or being worked out, that prevents "gossip". Mr Carter stepping in just prevented a night long bickering session that would have not changed a thing, good move but the facilitator should have stopped that one.
I think as far as the meeting being when another school function was being held should be tossed over th the bright one that set up this venue, not the board. Grow up folks and quit being so damn petty. As stated by Mr Womak, none of you sat with the legal council and were advised by them how to handle the situation. This board has had some great issues and have done their collective best. So replacing most of them will not solve only escalate the problem. "
I think as far as the meeting being when another school function was being held should be tossed over th the bright one that set up this venue, not the board. Grow up folks and quit being so damn petty. As stated by Mr Womak, none of you sat with the legal council and were advised by them how to handle the situation. This board has had some great issues and have done their collective best. So replacing most of them will not solve only escalate the problem. "
Rainier wrote on May 9, 2008 9:10 AM:
" Dale attacking, Carter bickering. Things sound pretty much the same. Didn;t change my mind. "
To To Smith wrote on May 9, 2008 9:12 AM:
" Everything seems to always be "at the same time as a school event". It's just a handy excuse to not follow through with what they started. "
grow up wrote on May 9, 2008 9:13 AM:
" Davies used school e-mail to invite everybody. Kash could've sued; and in a situation like that, she was possible angry enough to do so. Pretty awful to invite everybody and then disinvite her and her husband, if it was as well illegal it would be awfully adult of them to not sue. Acting like an adult hasn't been much of a pattern with Davies, Gilbert, Carter or, to a lesser degree, Kash. Actually 17 days off WITH PAY sounds pretty ok to me.
Move on, grown-ups, let the board do it's job (running the school, not micromanaging Caarter, he is not that bad or scary). i will vote no recall, but may vote for somebody else in 2009. I can wait til then. "
Move on, grown-ups, let the board do it's job (running the school, not micromanaging Caarter, he is not that bad or scary). i will vote no recall, but may vote for somebody else in 2009. I can wait til then. "
Teachers Kid wrote on May 9, 2008 9:48 AM:
" For years my parents attended the end of year party that the Carter/Kash duo were uninvited to. I have personally helped prepare dishes for my parents to take as it was their contribution to the potluck. Let me assure you, this NEVER has been a district sponsored event. Had it been sponsored by the district then Carter might have something to whine about. What we had there was a major case of bruised ego. "
SpringConcert wrote on May 9, 2008 9:53 AM:
" I was unable to attend the meeting as I was at the Spring Concert. Kash was there and she got up and spoke to the audience. I found myself really wanting to like her as she seemed as though she really was interested in what the students were accomplishing and she was very well spoken. The happy shiny feeling went away when she seemingly critisized one of my favorite teachers on who she had forgotten to thank. "
NJZ wrote on May 9, 2008 10:21 AM:
" To SpringConcert: I don't think she intentionally left anyone out. She did try to make sure she had gotten everyone. I was down in the first row and overheard her asking if she had forgotten anyone. She was well spoken and presented herself well. I was impressed with the way she handled herself, inspite of everything that has gone on. At least she is trying. I don't know if I would have been brave enough to stand in front of a crowd of parents, of which many are hostile, and put on a smile and be as gracious as she was. The concert was for the children to show how well they have been doing in their music classes, not a referendum on Ms. Kash. By the way kudos to Ms. Holmes on another great program. She has been an exceptional hire by the school board. "
Another Spring Concert Attendee wrote on May 9, 2008 10:43 AM:
" As a 3rd year resident of Rainier, I think I have seen enough and definately have read enough of the events to make my decision on the recall vote. I would have like to have attended the meeting to perhaps gain more knowledge but as always, my kids will come first. For that reason alone, I am voting YES. "
still no kissing policy after all this wrote on May 9, 2008 10:45 AM:
" Quote from: An Open Letter to the Rainier Community, Rainier School Board, July 19, 2007. To staff, parents and citizens of the Rainier School District: "Were not firing anyone. These men are both excellent administrators, which became acutely obvious with strong support voiced from both sides. ... We put letters of reprimand in both personnel files. Were creating detailed, legal Plans of Assistance for each to correct problems." However, TDN reported that Carter wrote the Gilbert plan(not the School Board) http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/08/14/area_news/news13.txt
quote: "Both men received written plans for improvement and were told in July that if they failed to meet the terms they could be fired. Carter's plan was written by and will be overseen by the school board. But Gilbert's plan was to be written and administered by Carter.. "Any disagreement over any issue (with Carter) would result in my subsequent termination," Gilbert said in a telephone interview Monday. "That was unconscionable and unacceptable." While the board has issued a statement that Kash was "cleared of all charges related to inappropriate behavior," it never investigated the kissing allegation, instead only studying if district policy was followed in placing Kash on leave after the allegations surfaced. And, Columbia County District Attorney Stephen Atchison said last month that he never determined if the kissing allegation was true or not, just that it wouldn't be illegal even if it did happen." Laurie Kash is Superintendent Carter's wife, the Carter exchange student returned to Europe. More background: http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/07/25/area_news/news12.txt
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quote: "Both men received written plans for improvement and were told in July that if they failed to meet the terms they could be fired. Carter's plan was written by and will be overseen by the school board. But Gilbert's plan was to be written and administered by Carter.. "Any disagreement over any issue (with Carter) would result in my subsequent termination," Gilbert said in a telephone interview Monday. "That was unconscionable and unacceptable." While the board has issued a statement that Kash was "cleared of all charges related to inappropriate behavior," it never investigated the kissing allegation, instead only studying if district policy was followed in placing Kash on leave after the allegations surfaced. And, Columbia County District Attorney Stephen Atchison said last month that he never determined if the kissing allegation was true or not, just that it wouldn't be illegal even if it did happen." Laurie Kash is Superintendent Carter's wife, the Carter exchange student returned to Europe. More background: http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/07/25/area_news/news12.txt
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To wrote on May 9, 2008 10:52 AM:
" I hear alot of people say the recall supporters didn't show up because they were afraid. LoL. When you have children in a play the same night, and time which do you pick ? Going to a meeting where the outcome is already a done deal ? Or your children. Hard choice. People have made up their minds. Let just vote, and start fresh. "
to NJZ wrote on May 9, 2008 11:07 AM:
" What I was referring to is when Kash said to Holmes (one of my favorite teachers), "...I think last performace you thanked the homeroom teachers." As if to imply that Ms. Holmes had forgotten to thank them or might not thank them. It felt very awkward and uncomfortable for my family... sitting in the second row. I, too agree with you how Kash handled herself especially with her history with Rainier. If Kash had omitted her comment to Holmes then I would have walked out of the auditorium with a much different opinion of Kash. "
JJ wrote on May 9, 2008 11:23 AM:
" I'm not sure why many of the people leaving comments aren't understanding that eliminating the school board will not get rid of Michael Carter. Re-calling the board will not accomplish anything except maybe the small minded people of this town will have a few minutes of excitement that they got revenge on somebody, doesn't matter if it's an innocent party or not, as long as SOMEONE pays for how Michael Carter behaved. It's unbelievable how completely out of touch with reality and childish people are acting over this. "
Also a Teachers Kid wrote on May 9, 2008 11:25 AM:
" I can second the fact that this event is an informal get together among the staff to celebrate another year completed. The event is never sponsored by the district, never held on district property, so why should Mr Davies have to invite someone the he doesn't feel comfortable with into his own house?
Through this whole thing, Carter has acted immaturely and out of control, which is a dangerous combination. In the process he has completely disrespected one of Rainier's best and most loved teachers. "
Through this whole thing, Carter has acted immaturely and out of control, which is a dangerous combination. In the process he has completely disrespected one of Rainier's best and most loved teachers. "
RHS Grad wrote on May 9, 2008 11:31 AM:
" I think the recall members, while it doesn't seem right, were smart to not attend either the editorial board meeting or the town hall meeting. Both would have become a shoutfest. If anything the recall members not showing up did themselves a favor by letting the board members bumble on and on and really do nothing to enhance their cause......Jay Davies was a good man and definitely deserved better treatment from the board as the board seemed too quick to rush to Carter's side but not give Davies the time of day......let's just all vote to recall the board and wipe the slate clean for the district. "
Amazed wrote on May 9, 2008 12:03 PM:
" I can not believe how you folks forget things. The Thursday night forum was set up and hosted by Rainier Chamber (Hank) no one from the board did this. Read all of your comments from Mondays article. My my how fast you forget what is happening in your own community. I guess this is the great example all your kids get, do you think they are not seeing all these postings. REAL GOOD EXAMPLE OF ADULT BEHAVIOR!!! "
Question wrote on May 9, 2008 12:14 PM:
" Could someone tell me what time this soap comes on, I cant seem to find it in the TV guide. "
To JJ wrote on May 9, 2008 12:20 PM:
" Your right recalling the board will not get rid of Carter, but the board is carter bosses, and have done nothing to control him. They are a bunch of puppets. This is why we need a new board if not to fire atleast hold him accountable. "
Where wrote on May 9, 2008 1:07 PM:
" has Carter worked before? Hillsboro? Might want to check it out..................... "
Another Smith wrote on May 9, 2008 1:07 PM:
" This meeting was not planned by the school board.. I know they would have rather been @ the concert supporting our kids than defending themselves. That to me shows they do support our kids, I know them well and will support them 100% I hope all you no voters are ready to step into their place if this recall happens.. Are you willing to give up your time? I know I would if I could, but my kids come first, so therefore I support my board!!! "
John in Rainier wrote on May 9, 2008 1:51 PM:
" Just wondering why the school district spends over $60,000 a year renting space for a small number of students at the old elementary school when they could buy a modular building to house those students on campus and in two years have the building paid for and then use the $60,000 pulse to balance the budget or hire more teachers or place in a building fund to build at a later date. As a community we need to ask these type's of questions, we need to get involved in a constructive way to make this a better place to live, work, and send our children to school. Can we just move forward and not dwell on the past? If Carter is our problem, then lets just admit that and let the school board do what they need to do. "
Rainier parent of two wrote on May 9, 2008 2:44 PM:
" Do we all understand that if this recall goes through that we are going to have people from other communities in charge? From the meeting last night I am to understand that we as a community with not be able to vote in new board members until the election next year, and that a board of people from other counties will be placed in charge and we will have no say in this. Is this going to make things better, I dont know. It is definitely something to think about when you case your vote! "
to Rainier parent of two wrote on May 9, 2008 3:46 PM:
" This is what happens: if the majority of the board is recalled, then the ESD will come in and appoint new board members. These members will be from the Rainier area, NOT from other counties. "
Best Interest wrote on May 9, 2008 4:10 PM:
" School is about kids parents and staff working together to educate the next generation. It is difficult to do this job knowing if you speak out there are consequences up to and including being fired. Some Board members admitted that certain employees are under a gag order. Other Board members seemed to know nothing about this. What kind of work environment is the Board allowing to be created? Is this what we want as a community. I have lost all trust in the School Board as elected officials looking after our community's best interest.
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to Dale Archie wrote on May 9, 2008 4:45 PM:
" Why did you feel it was necessary to attack two Rainier Citizens at a public meeting. As an elected official you should set an example. Why did you chose that example? "
Moose wrote on May 9, 2008 5:36 PM:
" Archibald didn't attack two Rainier citizens. He provided documentation showing how far this recall committee, of which no one seems to be a member, and the CAC will go to harm the district. We saw after they frightened away a principal candidate that they have no boundaries. Archibald provided further proof. I respect each and every one of the Board members and will vote NO! "
Gag order wrote on May 9, 2008 5:40 PM:
" The board says "Board members replied that proper grievance policy has to be followed, which can include an employee being told not to discuss the matter publicly until it's resolved." and my attorney told me that they can't legally do that. This is America and they do not have the right to tell employees they may not talk about anything the person chooses to talk about.
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who called Anderson wrote on May 9, 2008 5:54 PM:
" If the "plaques" were indeed paid for by the District, show us the receipts, and why not give them out at a Board meeting, instead of a private potluck party at someone's house? End of year plaques for staff retiring or being commended for their contribution should be done by the School Board President, or Superintendent publicly at an end of the year Board meeting. I tend to believe it was staff themselves that put money into a fund for the plaques. http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/06/19/area_news/news14.txt
ALSO: Anyone ever find out who called Anderson? http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/06/14/area_news/news11.txtQuote: "Cindy Anderson, who said she'd been involved in helping students learn how they could address the board about the Kash investigation, told the board she'd been threatened on her answering machine about asking any more questions about the kissing allegation. She said she had the phone message on tape. Anderson was particularly upset because she has an unlisted number, so the person who called would have had to use district records to get her number. "If this person continues to call ... I'm going to consider that harassment," she said.
After the meeting Anderson wouldn't say who left the message but said she was giving the school board a copy of the tape."
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ALSO: Anyone ever find out who called Anderson? http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/06/14/area_news/news11.txtQuote: "Cindy Anderson, who said she'd been involved in helping students learn how they could address the board about the Kash investigation, told the board she'd been threatened on her answering machine about asking any more questions about the kissing allegation. She said she had the phone message on tape. Anderson was particularly upset because she has an unlisted number, so the person who called would have had to use district records to get her number. "If this person continues to call ... I'm going to consider that harassment," she said.
After the meeting Anderson wouldn't say who left the message but said she was giving the school board a copy of the tape."
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Outsider wrote on May 9, 2008 6:21 PM:
" I have to say that I am releived that I am not a Rainier resident. While I have met many wonderful people in this town, there is this small group that gives this town a bad name. You think the enrollment is down because of Carter? Think again. You very negative, small-minded, uninformed people are creating a nightmare out of this beautiful town. Thanks CAC! "
to gag order wrote on May 9, 2008 6:44 PM:
" In speaking with my union attorney He stated a consent decree (gag order) may be used in monetary settlement. As agreed to by both parties. Not to silence or intimidate an employee in a work setting as part of a union grevence proceedure. Looks like some attorny is going to get a big payday.
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REParty facts wrote on May 9, 2008 7:50 PM:
" Let me make a reply to Rainier Parent and anyone else that seems to think what Mr. Carter did to Mr. Davies was justifyed and fair. FIRST Mr. Davies never sent out the alledged e-mail,so their never could have been an UNINVITE but yes Mr. Carter used school property to attempt to cancel the get together. Secondly, 17 days with or without pay means 17 days unable to do what he has devoted his life to,"Kids". Thirdly, not one penny of district money was asked for or spent on the function and finally, if the district was in peril of being sued, it would have been by the Carter/Kash's.Now tell me they have the best interest of Rainier in mind. You really need to get ALL your facts straight! "
Party FActs wrote on May 9, 2008 8:54 PM:
" First off, plaques are handed out at the end of the year party. And they are paid for by the district. Why should Kash not have the same rights as every other employee to sue? Because she is the Supers wife, it should be okay to discriminate against her?!?! And yes, Davies did use school email to invite and uninvite attendees. Hmmm... district sponsored... and about the phone call... really, is it only possible to get an unlisted number from district records?!?! That is ridiculous. And seriously, if this whole situation is as petty as you all make it sound, why would we want our board messing around with unhappy adults bickering. There are more important things to do.... As for the space being rented for the Charter School... many of the students attending it have been expelled from Rainier High School and are not allowed on the Briarcliff campus. And kudos to Kash for all of the great things she has done for the district. I suggest those of you who think she is so terrible go talk to her or observe her at HPE. What a great asset. Vote NO on the recall. "
Im mad wrote on May 9, 2008 9:02 PM:
" If the board knew the public was so upset with carter (upset enough to force a recall election) why did they renew his contract? The man is not for Rainier or Hillsboro. Check it out. I will vote yes. The board is not listening to the public, staff or students. A 'gag order'? What is he afraid people are going to say? The truth? "
seriously wrote on May 9, 2008 9:07 PM:
" 'REParty facts' you're saying there was no email? I know for a fact there was. Please don't spread falsehoods. Also, I'm noticing most people commenting do not appear to have attended the forum. I did. The bottom line is that this small group, the CAC, is essentially disgruntled that they are not privy to personnel issues which by law, cannot be made public. At no time did any member of the CAC present make any valid or logical argument to persuade me that there reasoning for the recall is valid. I will absolutely vote NO on the recall and encourage my neighbors to do the same. "
Something to think about....... wrote on May 9, 2008 9:35 PM:
" I sure am glad that all of my kids have already graduated and have moved on! Over the years of living in Rainier I have got to know some of the members of the school board. I know (for a fact or two) that some of them should be recalled, but some should not be too. Some of them are good, honest, hard working people, and I will vote NO on recalling them. Some of them are just working people who I would never turn my back on and have no business being on a school board in the first place. For this latter group, they are getting a vote of no confidence (or a Yes) vote from me. Two of them I have never had any interaction with, so I will be abstaining from voting either way on them. I really hope that the rest of the good people of Rainier take a long hard look at each individual board member before they cast their vote, and if you dont know a good reason to recall that individual, then leave them in place. As it has been pointed out in the paper today they are all up for re-election in 2009. Not a member of the board or CAC, just a member of the community. "
mom of wrote on May 9, 2008 10:04 PM:
" It seems to me the town of Rainier needs new board members like it needs new councel memebers. The board needs to stop Carter before the school goes down the pot, or I forgot the school is in shambles.... Lets face it folks Mr Carter is a controll freak just like his wife. Vote yes parents and make things right in this school district. "
To mom of wrote on May 10, 2008 1:09 AM:
" Yes, his wife is a HUGE control freak... What the hell are you talking about? She is a superb educator and it is ridiculous for you or anybody else to say anything less. The district is lucky to have her, not because she is easily one of the smartest people in Rainier, but because she is truly here for the kids. I graduated last year and have benefited so much from having her as my teacher. Nearly every kid who has had her will tell you the same thing. Get over yourself, because this isn't even about her; it's about the board. "
DONT TALK wrote on May 10, 2008 6:40 AM:
" Why is Carter using GAG orders to keep employees silent. What problems is he trying to hide? Let the truth come out! Not all employees at the school are covered by unions. The School Boards explanation of the use of gag orders by Carter to silence employees is a load of BS. I cant believe the Boards backs him up on this tactic. I cant believe the Board even admitted knowing about these gag orders. "
TEACHERS PLEASE STAY wrote on May 10, 2008 7:20 AM:
" We need you to educate our children. I know it has been a tough year watching what has happened to your fellow employees. Please don't make any decisions until after the recall vote. I know that some of you have been told if you don't like the way things are run leave. I don't want a bunch of rookie teachers educating my children! "
Hopefully wrote on May 10, 2008 10:42 AM:
" Its simple. Ballots went out friday. As soon as you get yours VOTE YES, and send it in. Stop the harrasment, the lack of accountability,and the lying. Lets keep the few good teachers we have left. Time to put our school back on track. Rember your votes are confidential. "
The gag orders... wrote on May 10, 2008 11:03 AM:
" Personally, I think it is smart to tell the employees not to talk to the media about personel problems that are being resolved. If you do your research, you will find this happens most places, only most places aren't gossip-living little towns like Rainier. Any press release from the somebody in the school has to be approved by their principal, superintendent or board. In leadership, to promote a dance, we even had to get it approved, not by just the teacher but the principal. It is so nothing false, misleading or inappropriate is released. Sounds like smart leadership to me, especially when teachers aren't previewed to any personel matters either. But yes, lets have them be able to bad mouth people in the media... Who brings the morale down?!?! "
HEY LEADESHIP wrote on May 10, 2008 11:39 AM:
" You are confusing a school function with adult procedures. Thats why I have a union lawyer to clarify what is legal. Censorship by a boss comes under 1st amendments rights of this country. Stay in school learn as much as you can. "
inbetween wrote on May 10, 2008 11:42 AM:
" I know most of the people being talked about on a personal level. i know carter and dale well and i know the byrds and coffmans better. and i am still unsure of how i will vote. but i know that both sides have a legit beef. i know people are mad about the way things have been run since carter has taken over. but not all of that is him. but he also has a little too much power and i think that having his wife work in there district is a horrible idea cause i think it is a conflict of interest. i know that coffman and byrd specifically are unhappy with the way baseball is being run and the things that have happend with the baseball program since they have been involved with it for so long including when rainier baseball was one of the states elite programs. they would like a way to have the public decide on how the program is run to keep it going as a elite program and having things that are nice for the boys. To everyone involved in rainier baseball they feel carter spends more time worrying about promoting his wife and not enough time worrying about the kids and the facitlies. i e the snack shack being taken and carter doing nothing about it. so i think something needs to change. just not sure what "
TDN Board Meeting Audio wrote on May 10, 2008 2:13 PM:
" I have just listened to the tape for a second time. The Audio points out the Boards bias for Carter and the way they handled the situations. Thank you TDN! Nothing has changed with the Board or Carter during the psst year. I was really hoping they would improve the relationship and communication with the citizens. Nothing has changed. The Board says they and Carter are doing nothing wrong everything right. I disagree. Listen to the tape for yourself and judge. I am now convinced we need all new people on the Board who will take a fresh look at the current situation. "
IF wrote on May 10, 2008 2:43 PM:
" If you have something to hide its simple put everyone under a gag order. It will be our little secret. "
Outsider wrote on May 10, 2008 4:12 PM:
" You people are pathetic. This is the most bizarre thing I have ever witnessed. You have no clue how great a board you have. Why don't you people sit through a board meeting in Portland and see how much input the public gets. Carter gets paid to run the district and he is good at what he does. The Board recognized that and supports him. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? How can you take the false accusations of a few disgruntled people and feel that is enough to recall these volunteers? You should be on your knees thanking them! Shame on you! "
Megan Benson wrote on May 10, 2008 4:50 PM:
" That is what happens to programs when all of the people who have been running them for years leave. The Byrd's and Coffman's have both graduated their last kids. Robby Cameron quit coaching. Sheldon Andrews is gone. Dynasties all end eventually. It isn't Carter who they should have beef with about athletics. Take it up with the athletic director, that would make much more sense. As for promoting his wife, you are ridiculous. She isn't being paid anymore money as Dean of Students, but she is doing way more work. Be thankful that they care about the kids enough to just be there, working hard and taking all of your sh*t. ESPECIALLY when you post it anonymously. "
couple things... wrote on May 10, 2008 4:52 PM:
" In regards to Davies' firing, it's true that the invitation was sent out by e-mail, but NOT BY HIM. It was sent out by a third party. Why was he held liable for that? Carter's excuse that he was preventing litigation holds no water, considering that the only people who could have sued over it were himself or his wife. He certainly didn't have to fire Jay to prevent litigation. Finally, if Kash is in fact a district employee, then she should be held to the same standards. These include regular attendance at staff meetings and other teacher inservices, adherence to the dress code, and timely attendance to the classes which she teaches. She's demonstrated deficiency in all these areas, but isn't disciplined for it. Sounds like a double standard to me... "
Re Party FACTS wrote on May 10, 2008 5:05 PM:
" To Party Facts....You REALLY need to get YOUR ducks in a row. For as long as anyone can remember, plaques that ARE paid for by the district are traditionally handed out at the board meetings. Retirement or acknowledgment gifts (paid for by the staff) are most often given out at end of the year get-togethers. AND Mr. Davies did not personally send out an e-mail, that was done by a third party. I'm sorry that Ms. Kash seems to think that Mr. Davies discriminated against her, but there is NO, I repeat No statute in the bylaws at Rainier that cite that what took place in discriminatory ask any attorney. It has been researched and Mr. Carter and the board have yet to acknowledge that Mr. Davies was wrongly put on administrative leave. Furthermore if Mr. Davies asked that children under the age of 10 or that no animals be allowed (other than a seeing eye dog), is that discrimination? I think that the only falsehood being spread around, is that there was any wrongdoing by Mr. Davies. "
To outsider wrote on May 10, 2008 6:10 PM:
" A few disgruntled people huh ? Thats why there are 500 people on the petions alone.The others will vote where there names won't be public inform. Face it people are not happy, and the board will be recalled. These people are ashamed they have let this go on as long as it has. "
Teachers wrote on May 10, 2008 6:15 PM:
" If i were you id think before i had a party at your own house. Dont hurt anybody's ego or you will pay. "
To Megan wrote on May 10, 2008 6:18 PM:
" The only people who post their names are the board supporters. Otherwise you or your children face harasment, intimadation or ridicule. Been there!! "
one last time wrote on May 10, 2008 6:27 PM:
" People are getting confused once again. Yes, every year at the end of the year, there is an end-of-the-year party held by the district. Plaques are handed out then. This party is different from Jay's party. Jay's party was in celebration of his retirement. It was completely separate from any district sponsored event. End of story. "
WHEN ITS OVER wrote on May 10, 2008 8:28 PM:
" I hope the board supporters and recall supporters can put it all behind them. I dont care to relive this war for the next 20 years. "
Outsider wrote on May 10, 2008 8:30 PM:
" 500 people on a recall means nothing. The well-informed people did not sign the petition. Many of the people signed to get the people out of their houses. The same people signed all six petitions. 500 people is not the majority. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. I have faith in the Rainier residents. They will not let these few people who spread their seeds of hate be successful. They will support those who volunteer and attempt to change things for the better. "
To One Last Time wrote on May 10, 2008 8:34 PM:
" Then why did Davies have another district member send out the invites on district e-mail, during the school day? If he had any sense, he would have sent the invites from home. Then it would not have been an issue. Davies is a sad man who needs to move on. "
Megan Benson wrote on May 10, 2008 9:09 PM:
" I'm pretty sure it goes both ways. You honestly don't think the board, their families and supporters, and Mr. Carter have been harassed or ridiculed? "
MEG wrote on May 10, 2008 11:42 PM:
" WHAT GO'S AROUND COMES AROUND.SOMETIMES IT CANT BE PAINTED OVER. "
Wanker wrote on May 10, 2008 11:48 PM:
" Can anybody tell me what "Censorship by a boss comes under 1st amendments rights of this country." means? Or is it just the ramblings of a peawit? "
RE One last time wrote on May 11, 2008 8:17 AM:
" One Last time! You are obviously associated with Mr. Carter. Asumptions and falsehoods. The E-mail sent out DID NOT come from Mr. Davies nor did he ask or direct it's content or mailing. Your attempt to justify makes you look foolish. Get your facts straight! "
Miss M wrote on May 11, 2008 8:29 AM:
" Disgruntled? Disillusioned? Loss of confiedence? I still believe in the Constitution of the United States and am quite sure that School Districts and their employees fall under it's curtain of freedoms, laws and amendments.As it states(I am paraphrasing)when the people loose faith in or find that government not doing their job, it is the DUTY of the people to shed of such government! Not all board members are guilty of gross negligence, but Carter is. It is the right and responsibility of the great people of Rainier to do the right thing. In order to help insure that Mr. Carter does not continue to over step his bonds and is reminded that his boss' are the board, not the other way around, then a stronger, better educated board (on school and state policies) one with the fortitude to keep their Super. in line must be elected. Even if the recall fails, hopefully Rainier's memory will not be too short, and that we can continue to monitor our school board and Super. "
party wrote on May 11, 2008 8:37 PM:
" 8 people came to my house today we had a ballet signing party.All with YESES.Mr. Carter wasnt invited.no one was gagged,on one got kissed.crawford brought the short cake,JAY brought the strawberries.none of us ate CROW. "
To party wrote on May 12, 2008 12:35 AM:
" It's too bad Mr. Carter wasn't invited. Perhaps if he were there he could have helped you with your grammar and spelling. "
to sorry wrote on May 12, 2008 11:45 AM:
" Yeah, and I'm guessing you didn't have Ms. Kash. Your loss. Thanks to her, many of us will be able to succeed in college! And not just LCC! "
she wrote on May 12, 2008 1:49 PM:
" She's the dean of students not a spelling teacher.So i didnt luck out.And i agree her and her husband have taught us all a lot.I did like the close contact class of hers.did she teach a german anatomy class???? "
Miss M wrote on May 12, 2008 5:01 PM:
" By the way Dale Archibald, get your facts straight, there is NO grievence process for administrators. No wonder this district is in a world of hurt, when it's own board members know neither the rules or the law. And you are dreaming Carter if you think you saved the district from litigation since it would have only originated from you or your wife. Be careful what you threaten, it could come right back at you and just might! Also how much has the district paid out on Michaels private investigators? Money better spent. "
To Miss M wrote on May 12, 2008 7:11 PM:
" So because he is the Super and she is married to the Super they should have fewer rights? And you all want to talk about double standards. Had Michael uninvited Gilbert you all would be crying foul. "
Actually wrote on May 12, 2008 7:13 PM:
" she also teaches a WR 121 and ENG 107 colleges class through PSU. Though there are Germans and Americans, I believe our anatomy is the same. And no, she didn't teach either according to OSP. "
look wrote on May 12, 2008 7:37 PM:
" Mike do yourself and your wife a favor pack your bags.I DONT THINK YOU BELONG IN EDUCATION.I THINK RAINIER HAS HAD ENOUGH.Your past shows you need help.You can say what you want, your not ment for RAINIER.It takes more than big smiles and hand shakes. and board dont blame rainier people this guy led you into this.AND YOU STOOD BY AND LET it HAPPEN DAY AFTER DAY.All trying to be good.It didnt work so lets go on with life.Thanks for your effort. "
And this is why... wrote on May 12, 2008 8:50 PM:
" Rainier will never grow. You people would rather stay ignorant than admit when somebody is smarter than you. Or perhaps you are just too stupid to understand the good things that have been contributed by Mr. Carter and Ms. Kash. Oh, wait. You are STILL being manipulated by Gilbert! (As shown in Ted Powell's letter to the editor.) "
nice wrote on May 12, 2008 10:35 PM:
" You call us ignorant.I bet your a teacher in the school.out of collage 1 year.and got the world in your grasp.just like the new teacher in our block. she told me the other day all the trouble is due to small town mentally.maybe so ,but we live here.we like it.the more im around smart people like her it makes me wonder.carter,kash,and you all in the same boat and its sinking. "
To Nice wrote on May 13, 2008 12:51 AM:
" Well nice, your is spelled you're (as in, you are). You need an comma after school, and before out. It's college, not collage. Capitalize when you start a sentence, and in general, proofread. There is a reason why we need intelligent educators in Rainier. Obviously, you didn't have one. That's why we need new people in this area. That's why Rainier needs to keep this board, the administration, and new teachers that are informed and well educated. Vote NO!! Rainier doesn't need to continue to be the joke of the Northwest. "
Re Nice wrote on May 13, 2008 11:01 AM:
" Actually, no. I am in my first year of college, studying English and Education at the U of O. While I am planning to become a teacher and do have the world in my grasp, I feel that is much better than in a small, stink hole town with ignorant people such as you deciding the fate of those who are trying give your kids a better education than you obviously received. Thankfully I was lucky enough to have Ms. Kash as a freshman and senior for English. I know I wouldn't be as successful in college as I am without her WR 121 and ENG 107 classes. College is the one ticket out of Rainier, and I'm glad I got one. I just feel bad for all of the kids behind me who people like you are hurting. Nobody seems to ask the kids how they feel. Talk to the ASB President; at least allow the school's student representative a chance to speak. After all, school is about the kids, and I feel the community has lost sight of that. They are allowing their little adult battles to take the attention away from education. The fact that there are hundreds of comments on recall stories and only a handful about the great mural going in at HPE is sad. Very sad indeed, and reflective of the ignorance of the town. "
How does a person find wrote on May 14, 2008 10:17 AM:
" How does a person find where Ted Powell's letter to the editor is online? "
Scot Heisel TDN wrote on May 14, 2008 10:27 AM:
" Here's the requested link to Ted Powell's letter to the editor (May 11). http://www.tdn.com/articles/2008/05/12/letters/doc4824c65e23a9c344261859.txt "
Re Re Nice wrote on May 14, 2008 10:50 AM:
" I don't think any student at school would feel comfortable talking about anything, even if it was the ASB president. "
Actually wrote on May 14, 2008 2:23 PM:
" He has sent letters to many Newspapers and TV Stations, but nobody has talked to him. People just keep on assuming. "
to re nice wrote on May 14, 2008 8:08 PM:
" Kudos to your well written post! I understand that those who are dead set on recalling won't give your opinion much thought, but for the rest of us fighting to keep good teachers in our schools, thank you, your path is my personal hope for my own children. Teachers like Ms. Kash deserve praise and appreciation, not being drug through the mud. And..the mural is fantastic..I hope lot's of parents can see first hand what someone like Ms. Kash is trying to do for our kids despite the slander from some in our community. "
RE to Miss M wrote on May 15, 2008 7:59 AM:
" Once again assumptions! Mr. Gilbert would have uninvited himself, or never showed up! The pointed facts are that the rights of Carter/Kash were never in jepordy, because there was NO law broken. Mr and Mrs Davies were within the law to invite whom ever they wanted. Their get together, their home, outta state and after hours. Please just take your marbles and go home. And what in the hell does Mr. Gilbert have to do with any of this? You seem to want to give him more power then he deserves in this matter. There are NO sides, no camps just blaming someone or something else for your hurt. "
Why wrote on May 15, 2008 8:55 AM:
" Why when you go on a search for Rainier School Board information online at tdn, great care was taken to show all others editorials and letters to the editor, but Ted Powell's is not included? I would like to see his there as well, so that all are included. Thanks. "
As a matter of fact wrote on May 15, 2008 9:08 AM:
" Ted Powell's letter to the editor is also not included when you search Rainier School District either, and the other letters are. "
Scot Heisel TDN wrote on May 15, 2008 9:18 AM:
" Again, here's the requested link to Ted Powell's letter to the editor (May 11). http://www.tdn.com/articles/2008/05/12/letters/doc4824c65e23a9c344261859.txt It's part of a string of letters. I'm not sure why it doesn't show up on your searches, and I'm not sure why it's so important. I've given you the link twice. You can also search for Powell. No conspiracy here. Also, "great care" is never taken to manipulate our search engine. It is what it is. "
Thanks on search for letters wrote on May 15, 2008 10:34 AM:
" No problem. Just wondering why some easily go to search engine there, and others do not, which is what happened, when they're tallking about the same things. It was just surprising that's all. Anyway, thanks for the info. Just was thinking since that happened, thought there had to be a reason. I can accept that there really isn't one, except for either it happens, or it don't. Thanks for letting me ask my question. "
Smith wrote on May 15, 2008 10:37 AM:
" Okay folks lets just make sure we all vote, hopefully justice will prevail(our board stays). Why keep bickering about Davies, Gilbert and Carter/Kash. Everybody has there own opionon and agenda, everybody has strong feelings about this whole situation. Our current board has worked hard and stayed focused on the kids. Not the petty who hurt who's feelings. Bottom line is our kids/teachers are the ones getting the schaft because of all the bickering and gossip.
Lets just wait and see what the results are. It's time we all grow up and move on.... "
Lets just wait and see what the results are. It's time we all grow up and move on.... "
Smith wrote on May 15, 2008 12:26 PM:
" Okay folks lets just make sure we all vote, hopefully justice will prevail(our board stays). Why keep bickering about Davies, Gilbert and Carter/Kash. Everybody has there own opionon and agenda, everybody has strong feelings about this whole situation. Our current board has worked hard and stayed focused on the kids. Not the petty who hurt who's feelings. Bottom line is our kids/teachers are the ones getting the schaft because of all the bickering and gossip.
Lets just wait and see what the results are. It's time we all grow up and move on.... "
Lets just wait and see what the results are. It's time we all grow up and move on.... "
To Smith wrote on May 15, 2008 3:04 PM:
" Your right lets vote I agree lets stop bickering about Gilbert, and Davies its to late they have already been chased away. I also agree we need to move on, and focus on the kids. Thats why we need to vote YES, and save what good teachers we have left. We need to stop Super Mike because he is out of hand, and has been for quite some time. This is what happens when his bosses let him run wild. "
Voted wrote on May 16, 2008 3:43 AM:
" I voted, and hated to oust the board, but hey, they weren't doing their job! Carter & Kash have NOT been a GOOD asset to our schools or community! Rather they have caused nothing but caos and grief for too many! Please move to another town and manipulate your way around there! Actually No don't do that, I don't wish you two on any body! "
I Know wrote on May 16, 2008 4:19 AM:
" Just get rid of those two, and every one can and will be happy! They Suck, lets face it! Don't bother to give me crap back about my comment, because frankly I really don't care. It's my opinion,not yours! Have A Great Day Fellow Rainier Folks. "
Voted Already wrote on May 16, 2008 4:11 PM:
" I voted no. I feel that the board did the best it could in an impossible situation. They weren't going to make everyone happy. I feel that Carter/Kash and many new teachers and personel are making a great impact on the kids. That is my personal opinion. We will find out how it went in a few more weeks. "
Me too wrote on May 16, 2008 4:45 PM:
" Another NO here. Thanks for doing your best board. And lets face it, Carter and Kash ROCK! And you are obviously stuck in your small little world in saying that everyone will be happy if they leave. Have you seen the positive comments? Or do you choose to ignore them? "
rose wrote on May 16, 2008 7:20 PM:
" Both the Certified and Classified Unions of the school district support the Board and Mr. Carter. Voters, that must mean something. Vote No. "
to rose wrote on May 16, 2008 11:55 PM:
" And yet the teacher's union has remained silent. Coincidence? Probably not... "
FUNNY wrote on May 17, 2008 12:28 AM:
" IN THE POSTS HERE ITS 30 TO 1 TO VOTE YES .DONT THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING?FROM TEXAS TO HILLSBORO TO RAINIER, MIKE THE STORY HASN'T CHANGED MUCH. "
Rolling my eyes wrote on May 17, 2008 9:07 AM:
" Most of the teachers that I have spoken to, support the board. And as for the the 30 to 1 ratio, I think that it is the unhappy minority venting, which of course, they are entitled to do. (As long as they vote.) "
Re Rolling my eyes wrote on May 17, 2008 9:59 AM:
" That's the point. You have talked to teachers who feel comfortable speaking and have nothing to tell, but have you ever wondered if you have not talked to the ones who don't fall under those two categories. Did you ever wonder what you may not know? It would make sense why you haven't heard from the others. I don't think all of this turmoil could be happening if everything was ok and fine. I don't think anyone would take the time and energy for what some think must be for petty reasons, to go through all of this effort if everything was ok. It just wouldn't be happening. Some people may say, since details haven't been heard that this tells you nothing and base their vote on it, but to me, this tells me everything and all I need to know on how to base my vote. I dont' think anyone is making this up. I think something is wrong. Don't know details? Then why doesn't everything else surrounding this whole thing tell you enough that something is wrong. All of this just would not have happened if everything was ok. "
Rainier Mom wrote on May 17, 2008 12:26 PM:
" I am always stunned at the amount of people that are still under the impression that the school district is not a union gig all of the complaining should be directed at the union not the school board they are not in the position of power that everybody is mistakenly giving them.. I do not understand the insistance of we run the show when in reality it is the state that is telling everyone what thier job discripion is and you longtimers need to get it through your heads that people don't run the school dist. just because of this "we want what we want" mentality.. recalling and replaceing all of the school board will only show the rest of the state how petty and small minded we are as a community and if you talk to people from other dist. they roll thier eyes in disbelief that this area is so deprssed and unwilling to change or grow with the times its the reason our kids don't go to collage the mjority of parents don't want thier kids smarter than them.. Change is inevetible people join the 21 century and quit looking like the hick you are!!! "
clarification wrote on May 17, 2008 12:48 PM:
" The 'certified union' are the teachers. Also, given the way members of the Rainier community trash people in the public eye, be it civic leaders, teachers and volunteers in general.....I can imagine most teachers regardless of their position on the recall wouldn't feel comfortable stating their opinion. The bottom line is that people need to do their own research and make an INFORMED vote. I've done mine, and I'm voting NO. "
Informed vote wrote on May 17, 2008 1:02 PM:
" Informed vote usually means that a person has the information. I don't think with however much research anyone can do, can they get the information that it would take to make an informed and sound vote. I don't think that is happening at all, nor can it happen. If I am wrong, where was this magic place where all of this information was found and research done, because I don't think many have found the same. "
So wrote on May 17, 2008 5:01 PM:
" If there is no information, why are we having a recall? There isn't any information in justifying one, following your theory. And I don't think we should be having one. Vote NO. "
one anecdotal equals one vote wrote on May 17, 2008 5:46 PM:
" Anecdotal experience is not very often displayed in a public forum. TDN can censor anything it chooses to, as it owns this website, and has the same legal litigation issues any organization has. Anecdotal experience often influences a vote in a case like this. Anecdotal experience is motivating information in this case, that's for certain. Got my ballot today. Done voting. "
actually wrote on May 17, 2008 11:12 PM:
" Certified staff is not teachers. Certified staff is instructional assistants, etc. TDN reported that they supported the school board and had a list of the types of jobs they hold. None of them are actual teachers. In fact, the teacher's union has not chosen any sides in this recall. So please stop the lies. "
Petty wrote on May 18, 2008 1:00 PM:
" I love those "It's all over petty stuff, so get over it and vote no" folks. Well, I'm here to tell you that when a school board deliberately runs a popular principal out of town it isn't petty. They're lucky they aren't getting sued over their one-sided "plan of improvement." "
To Petty wrote on May 18, 2008 2:05 PM:
" Hmmm don't most popular people have a really ugly side? If there were grounds to sue, Gilbert would have been all over it. And if he really thought the board was in the wrong, he'd have opened his file or his plan to the public. But hmm, looks like he's hiding something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "
to actuallypetty wrote on May 18, 2008 3:17 PM:
" Yet there are teachers who have signed a petition stating that they support the board. As for "running" a popular principal out of town. That was his own decision. He CHOSE to leave instead of working it out, and he CHOSE to not open his file or improvement plan to the public. Why the outcry over Gilbert's choice? Carter DID open his file, Gilbert DID NOT. Who left? And who stayed, and worked it out? Not to hard to figure out which person really cares for the kids and schools of this community, is it? "
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