Fibre sends 300 home over safety violations
Friday, March 21, 2008 6:25 AM PDT
By Erik Olson
Printable version
E-mail this articleWorkers in Longview Fibre's entire maintenance department - about 300 employees - were sent home two hours early Thursday afternoon following a week of minor safety violations, according to paper union and company officials.
One of those employees told to go home Thursday was garage mechanic Roger Fisher, president of the 930-employee Fibre union, the Association of Western Pulp and Paper Workers Local 153.
Fisher said he thinks the company's action was meant to punish workers for minor safety violations.
"The company went back to its old-school thinking and decided to go with safety through intimidation," Fisher said Thursday.
Employees were told they could lose their jobs if they commit future safety violations, he said. They were paid for the entire day of work, Fisher said.
Frank McShane, the company's chief operating officer, said workers will not automatically be fired for single violations and that the company will continue to follow established discipline procedures for "intentional" infractions -- where someone deliberately avoids a safety step.
Thursday's action, he said, was triggered by a "recent series of safety events, including some lockout errors" in which steps were not taken to make sure machines can not start while someone maintains them.
"That is something we take very seriously, and we felt it was appropriate to take action to get people to think about what it takes to be safe," McShane said in a phone interview Thursday evening.
He said it is appropriate to term the action a "wake up call" to the maintenance department, where most of the recent safety violations have occurred. There have been no serious injuries, just some "sprains and strains," McShane said.
"We're not trying to punish people. We want to make sure everyone understands how important (safety) it is."
He said improving the plant's safety record is good both for workers, who will lose less time to injury, and the company, which pays higher insurance rates than its peers in the pulp and paper industry because of its safety record.
There's no attempt to intimidate workers, McShane said, but to "focus attention on what is necessary to be safe before we even start to work. ... If you see a trend going, it's appropriate to call time out and get everyone focused on what you're trying to accomplish."
The union held its regular membership meeting Thursday night, where Fisher said he hoped the union would make an official statement.
Thursday's notice to maintenance workers is among a series of significant events at Fibre over the past year.
The company was sold last April to the Canadian firm Brookfield and Associates after 40 years of local management by the Wollenberg family. Last fall, Fibre officials announced plans to shed 170 hourly workers and 30 salaried positions by the middle of the summer and an additional 100 jobs by 2010.
In January, the company hired Randy Nebel, a 30-year veteran of the pulp and paper industry, as its new mill manager. His hard line on safety was one of the biggest reasons he was hired, and he was involved in Thursday's decision, McShane said.
Fibre had a history of safety problems before Brookfield took over, according to the state Department of Labor and Industries. The company agreed last fall to pay $201,900 in fines from seven violations stemming from a 2004, according to the agency.
One of those violations resulted in the on-the-job death of 38-year-old Fibre worker Mark Greenland on Jan. 2, 2004.
Since Brookfield took over, no safety violations have been reported to Labor and Industries, according to agency spokeswoman Elaine Fischer.
.. wrote on Mar 21, 2008 6:35 AM:
" You would think letting them go home early and still paying them would be a reward, not punishment. Why not doc their pay if you really wanted to make a statement. "
Rob wrote on Mar 21, 2008 7:03 AM:
" They were sent home early and paid their full days pay?Can I have a application? "
shereck wrote on Mar 21, 2008 7:24 AM:
" I'm still trying to figure out the logic behind sending employees home a couple of hours early WITH PAY....sounds more like a reward than a punishment. "
Som wrote on Mar 21, 2008 7:41 AM:
" Why would the union be mad about the company caring about the workers safety. I guess I don't get it. "
Debbie wrote on Mar 21, 2008 7:45 AM:
" Safety is in place for a reason; Way to go Fibre!! Maybe more production plants will be as responsible. "
Of Course wrote on Mar 21, 2008 7:52 AM:
" Safety is a number one priority in any industry so why do union members think they are exempt from following defined procedures. Deviation from approved/acceptable procedures result in accidents. This is a no-brainer. "
Bob wrote on Mar 21, 2008 8:21 AM:
" This wasn't just union people, this was the whole department. And nobody thinks they are exempt. Where did you read someone thought they were exempt?
I think when they did this people thought whoa, what happened? Why? The desired effect. "
I think when they did this people thought whoa, what happened? Why? The desired effect. "
Union wrote on Mar 21, 2008 8:29 AM:
" The reason the company sent them home with pay was do to the union contract. This does put the employees on notice, continued violations can be used to fire employees with no union complaints. Keep an eye on this action it could tell you who the 200 employee to be laid off will be. "
yeah wrote on Mar 21, 2008 8:32 AM:
" If you think about it, the maintenance crew probably has the highest over-time accrual in the entire mill. There was probably some lost wages for about half (if not more) of those employees in the fact that they were only paid for 8 hours. "
RE: Som wrote on Mar 21, 2008 8:37 AM:
" Union members are mad because every action by the employer, for good or bad, is viewed as some grand conspiracy to oppress. It is simply mob mentality run rampant. Though as individuals each persn may approve of this logical action by Fibre, once part of a group the few nay-sayers spread their own hate and discontent like wild fire. The apathetic followers do what sheep do, they follow. "
re: union wrote on Mar 21, 2008 8:44 AM:
" that would make since if it was chosen people through out the mill in different departments but it was all the maintenance workers (day crews, not shift crews). They are not going to get rid of the entire maintenance crews. not going to happen. this was a wake up call to pay attention to safety. "
Bert wrote on Mar 21, 2008 8:46 AM:
" As a former Fibre employee and currently a business owner I can tell you exactly what Fibre is doing. Each of these employees will have it noted in their personel file that they were sent home early due to safety violations. Fibre is building a paper trail so they can terminate at will. With a papaer trail not only will the union not be able to defend the termination, but the employees will be denied unemployment due to the termination being for cause. "
no name wrote on Mar 21, 2008 8:50 AM:
" You realize that this is exactly how union put it.Watch out mechanical.For years they have wanted to trim mechanical out of Fibre. No other mill around here has that big of a mechanical work force. "
Bert wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:02 AM:
" The reason the Union put it that way is not to cause fear among the employees but to inform them of the Company's true motive. Beware my union brothers. "
"HELLO" wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:17 AM:
" I believe it was stated that safety is a prerequisite of work. We workers don’t have the right to hurt one another or ourselves. We do however have the right to a safe work place and some responsibilities to getting and keeping it there. This going home early was just a line in the sand. It is time to change our culture. INGAGE or go to work somewhere else. If we can pull this off, then we may have safe and healthy jobs until retirement. If we don’t, I think we won’t. Accountability? What a concept. If there were contractors working at Fibre with the safety record of our maintenance departments, they would have been fired and replaced a long time ago with Local 153’s blessing. Union brothers and sisters stand tall and proud. Let’s do the right thing and work safe. Let’s watch each other’s backs and mitigate all hazards whether they are conditions or actions. We have had two fatalities in my career. I say “NO MORE! NOT ON OUR WATCH”. After all OSHA-WISHA Laws were created by strong unions and workers that wanted to have safe working environments for all, for many years to come. "
nodoz wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:21 AM:
" I don't want to be the one working on a machine without a lock out. These violators should be given more than they got. Just my opinion. "
no name again wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:27 AM:
" Your telling me saying beware isnt to scare them....I know im not trying to scare them...I do say this tho beware 2010 when the contract is up...No one will be safe... "
offended wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:36 AM:
" When I first heard of the news yesterday- I was offended thinking 'they sent all 300 people in 'time out' to think about what they've done w/out telling them what they have done? but then its common for most mills in our area to releive a whole crew, if they are a safety risk- There are a lot of people that forget to lock out machines that can result in death- People need to be aware, it is sill though 300 people? woah "
exman wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:38 AM:
" Some of the blogs are exactly right. By doing this each employee has a black mark in their file. This may lead to future employees being fired. The morale at the mill is already low, employees being pushed to their limits due to low numbers, whether they will have jobs in the future, and mr. nebel headhunting in his loafers at 3:00 am in the middle of the night. I understand the need for safety, but why shotgun blast the entire maintenance staff. go after the employees that repeatedly violate ECP's, salary and hourly.The salary employees need to step up to the plate and discipline employees not performing and rewarding employees that excell.Start treating employees with respect not just as ID # 4021 "
to: no name again wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:51 AM:
" Beware 2010? Give me a break, the contract will not change the ability of the company to adjust its workforce according to its needs. The contract gives gainfully employed protections... but does not guarantee continued employment, it only controls the amount of notice required if your position is terminated. Wake up and read the contract. In addition, the company does not NEED to play games. They do have the right to run the company in a manner that allows it to make a profit. As for the decision to send these people home.... For all of you who refuse to acknowledge the truth of the situation... Management at LFPPI has been telling us ALL for MONTHS that safety is a priority, that lockout/tagout procedure is a priority, that following safety practices in all tasks is a priority... that wearing PPE is a priority... good grief, haven't any of you been listening? Quit looking for excuses and acknowledge the fact that safety regulations will be enforced. Whether you agree with the policy or not doesn't matter... your job requires you to follow safety processes and if you do not, then you put your job at risk, along with the people you work with and the company you work for. They have been telling you for months now that it does matter and that you will do it. Then you act like it's a big conspiracy? Getoveryourselves! "
Message wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:58 AM:
" Fibre Management is right in sending a message that safety violations are not tolerated. Let us be positive. Safety in any business is first priority. I know people walk off the jobs because they think they are working under unsafe conditions. "
whiners wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:59 AM:
" This is correct and ok by me. These union people are all overpaid and whine about everything. Those safety violations are in place and have been for years. Every person sent home, knew about them. The punishment will be appropiate next time. You people work for Fibre, not the union. "
Bert wrote on Mar 21, 2008 10:02 AM:
" During my time at Fibre I was extremely involved in safety issues. One of the main issues we faught consistantly was accountability. Not just from the hourly employees but also the salaried personel. There were and are many "old school" supervisors that remember the time when a job took much less time to perform because there were no safety rules in place. Many of these supervisors still have the mentality of get the job done as quickly as possible with disregard to safety. The,"We have done it this way for 30 years and nobody ever got hurt." mentality. Each employee needs to held accountable. If it is a salaried employee who directs an employee to work unsafely or a hourly employee who performs a job in violation of the safety rules. But a reiterate that the true intentions of Fibre's actions of sending home the entire department home was merely to be able to note in each of thier personal file that they were sent home due to safety violations. Anyone familiar with Fibre's inner workings knows without a doubt that Fibre has wanted to reduce or eliminate the maintence department and use sub contractors. This is their back door way to accomplish that goal. "
BATMAN wrote on Mar 21, 2008 10:15 AM:
" Stop wining and step up to the plate and do you job and do it SAFELY. It says they were told that they could lose their job with future safety violations, I would be more worried thay I could lose my LIFE with a future violation. These rules are not just for poo and gigggles they are there to protect us from getting hurt. If the mechanics think they have the right to these violations They should go home and ask their wives, husbands, mothers, fathers, children, grandchildren if its ok to got to work and possibly come home hurt or not come home at all. It has happened and it will continue to happen unless we change the way we do things. "
to BERT wrote on Mar 21, 2008 10:30 AM:
" A lot has changed since you were relieved of you duties at Fibre. You cannot compare the New LFPPI to the Old Fibre. Management does care and is asking for accountability they are not just there looking for a way to document things so you can be fired "
Great wrote on Mar 21, 2008 10:32 AM:
" First they remove the keg from the break room. Then they won't let us nap on the job anymore (but we still do), and now this! This company sure is trying to intimidate us. "
ex mill worker wrote on Mar 21, 2008 10:49 AM:
" A man lost his life there in 2004? Why was that not the wake up call to workers? The company is already paying higher insurance rates than that of its peers due to its safety record? Everyone knows insurance rates of all kinds have skyrocketed out of control. Are these workers going to strike when they have to pay more for their health insurance on their next contract? Not locking out equipment? Wake up people! Everyone needs to be accountable for safety...besides owing it to your coworkers to work safely, not doing so could end up with YOUR family attending YOUR funeral! "
widow wrote on Mar 21, 2008 10:59 AM:
" I cannot believe that the Fibre-whiners do not GET IT. Life and health are worth far more than the right to break the rules. They should ask their families about that. "
Parsley wrote on Mar 21, 2008 11:00 AM:
" Amazing. This really seems like an example of some people refusing to change. Instead of saying we need to change our actions, be accountable, and work safely, Mr. Fisher makes it sound like Fibre is on a witch hunt - - i.e. the employees are doing nothing wrong.
Shape up or get out. There's a lot of others in this town who'd love to have your high paying job! "
Shape up or get out. There's a lot of others in this town who'd love to have your high paying job! "
Get over it wrote on Mar 21, 2008 11:06 AM:
" The problem I have with this is that people were sent home that had not violated any safety requirements. Also some people had not even started their shift and were sent home. So it was not just 2 hours, some were more than 8. I believe in accountability, but not when you have done nothing wrong and follow the rules. As for "whiners" sounds to me you are jealous you do not have their jobs. They work hard for the pay they receive, and most of the maint have taken classes to become what they are. In case you are unfamiliar that is called hard work. Even if they were not union they would make the same amount of money. Fair labor market is all they ask for. Do not clump the minority with the majority. "
fraidy cat wrote on Mar 21, 2008 11:07 AM:
" For all you people working on equipment that is not tagged out: are you really sure that anyone who has access to the controls didn't just sneak off to smoke a doobie on his or her break??? You trust them all with your life?? Maybe it is better that you were sent home to think about it. "
To Bert wrote on Mar 21, 2008 11:08 AM:
" This is new management how can you say that they have wanted to get rid of the maintenance dept for a long time. Good grief they have only had the company a short while. I do agree with you they are creating a paper trail and there will be maintenaqnce dept lay-offs in the near future. As far as Mr Nebel running around the mill in the middle of the night if you are doing your job and doing it correctly (not reading a book, napping or on your cell phone) then I guess you will not have to worry. I have listiened to mill workers (yes fibre) talk of how they nap or read all their shift, tough to actually have to work for your pay!!! "
I don't understand... wrote on Mar 21, 2008 11:16 AM:
" If you are so sure Fibre's trying to build a paper trail to fire everybody, and these were documentable safety violations that they used to do that, then why don't y'all try doing your jobs by FOLLOWING THE RULES, then they can't do that? I may be blonde, and I know this is simple, but I guess I still don't understand it... "
Bert wrote on Mar 21, 2008 11:39 AM:
" If an employee or group of employees are violating written safety policy that person or people SHOULD be held accountable. It also apllies that those indivduals kep safety as job one should be recognized. You don't hold the whole department accountable for the few. If we look at this logically, 300 people were sent home 2 hours early with pay. That is 600 man hours that were paid for with no productive work for the investment of pay. Fibre made a $15,000+ investment with this action. All they accompliushed was to reduce the moral and stir fear within the mill. If they held the few that ignore the safety rules accountable they would have sent just as strong a message. Fibre is like a little Peton Place and anything that happens there is known by everyone of the other employees. Management is well aware of the closed community within the mill. So ask your self, "Why would Fibre invest $15,000+ in a single day when the same could be accomplished by merely holding individuals accountable?" Without the cost. The only logical reason is they wanted to be able to note in the personel files of each of those employee that they were sent home for safety violations. Giving them just cause to terminate in the future. As a business person now, former Fibre employee, I know that in order to keep the unemployment rate that I pay down and avoid other issues I must build a paper trail to terminate. "
Bert wrote on Mar 21, 2008 11:54 AM:
" To To Bert:
Judging from your comment I would say you are part of upper mangement. I have just one question for you. Will this "wake up call" not be noted in each employee's "Blue Sheet" or in their personal file? After all it is only out of concern for the safety of the employees this action was taken. "
Judging from your comment I would say you are part of upper mangement. I have just one question for you. Will this "wake up call" not be noted in each employee's "Blue Sheet" or in their personal file? After all it is only out of concern for the safety of the employees this action was taken. "
Irritated wrote on Mar 21, 2008 12:10 PM:
" To Whiners: Overpaid and whine about everything? Ever work in a mill? Ever hear about hazard pay? The men and women at Fibre (as well as the other mills) work around chemicals that will burn holes in your skin, not to mention machinery with tires taller than any person down there, electrical conduit as big around as your arm, boilers that, if they breach, can EXPLODE, etc. etc. etc. I agree that safety should come first. Fibre needs to look at the (salaried) superintendants/ foreman/forwomen. It is a bit hard for the hourly folks to support a safety program when the boss keeps shutting them down. "
fraidy cat wrote on Mar 21, 2008 12:22 PM:
" For those who would work on equipment without making sure it has been locked out - aren't you afraid that those who may have access to the start buttons may have just snuck off and smoked a doobie on thier break? Trust no one!! "
re:re: no name wrote on Mar 21, 2008 12:42 PM:
" Does the contract not expire in 2010??? With out a contract whoever is left can be let go with or without cause..They can close the mill and reopen it at that time and hire what ever they want...I was just referring to the 2010 as an eye opener not just for the mechanical but for all employees of the mill..As for them doing this for the saftey of there workers AMEN!! I worry every time my husband steps foot on fibre grounds...My husbands life lays in many of these mens hands...Isnt the union supposed to be a brotherhood??? Its about time they start taking care of one another...If there not going to do it on there own than thank god the company is going to make sure they do...I dont want to hear that for the 4th time a work order was placed to fix a bolt yet its still not touched weeks later...as for many of your posts way to go.... "
Foolishness wrote on Mar 21, 2008 12:48 PM:
" Please, sending 300 home for "safety violations" is ludicrous. This is about management flexing its muscles and that is why union employee's are upset. Obviously many of you have never worked in an industrial environment. The unions started safety programs, but they have become managements tool to discipline without proper procedure. "
Not Obvious wrote on Mar 21, 2008 12:55 PM:
" Almost all union contracts state the employee must be paid if they are present and willing to work, and that's why those sent home were paid for the day. There is no conspiracy to put a "black mark" in employee files -the answer is simple as this: SAFETY, Increased insurance, disability, and productivity costs, and fines levied upon the company. The union has to get over its paranoia, propaganda, and conspiracy theories. The union should be grateful that Fibre wants to improve safefty instead of having people injured or killed. I worked at Fibre,
and there are many ways to get hurt there - if safety rules are not obeyed. I never got injured, and I thank my boss for always harping about safety. Wake up union employees - it's your health and life, and your job. If you don't want to follow safety rules, you SHOULD be fired. "
and there are many ways to get hurt there - if safety rules are not obeyed. I never got injured, and I thank my boss for always harping about safety. Wake up union employees - it's your health and life, and your job. If you don't want to follow safety rules, you SHOULD be fired. "
sparehand wrote on Mar 21, 2008 1:24 PM:
" Everybody here has a point,I have been on both sides of the fence(mechanical and production).The mech. just has the old school mentality still,they think that it is like it used to be.GET THE JOB DONE NO MATTER WHAT!It just simply isn't that way anymore,the company knows we can't go on like this anymore and I for one applaude them for taking the necessary action to stem the bleeding.Fibre is a great place to work and we can keep it a viable place to work if we are smart.thanks... "
think about it wrote on Mar 21, 2008 1:32 PM:
" do none of you remember just a few years ago someone got killed at Fibre for not following the safety rules. I would hate the call in the middle of the night that something happened to my husband because someone did not follow the rules.
All the employees union or not need to follow the safety rules.
It would even been better if the stockman for #10 machine would stop acting like a baby and do his job.
You go to work to work..... not sleep, read or do scratch tickets...like a lot of them do "
All the employees union or not need to follow the safety rules.
It would even been better if the stockman for #10 machine would stop acting like a baby and do his job.
You go to work to work..... not sleep, read or do scratch tickets...like a lot of them do "
Really??? wrote on Mar 21, 2008 1:37 PM:
" The president of the AWPPW 153 thinks that not locking out a machine is a MINOR safety violation? I don't even work in a mill and I know better than that! "
Bert To Really wrote on Mar 21, 2008 1:59 PM:
" Not all violations are lock out violations. Some can be as minor as not signing a particular form. Any lock out violation should be dealt with immeadiately and with sever consequences. I know Roger and I believe he would agree with this. "
To think about it wrote on Mar 21, 2008 2:26 PM:
" Fibre had been cited several times for their safety program not meeting state standards on the machine where the employee lost his life. The resposibilty lies in the company's corner to insure that the safety programs, weather they are followed or not, meet minium protection stanrds. "
dopy wrote on Mar 21, 2008 2:33 PM:
" You mean you can't sleep on the job anymore? I can understand the need to try and keep our doobie smoking break a secret but sleeping!!!!! I just hope they don't cut us off from all the free supplies for my shop at home. "
to all wrote on Mar 21, 2008 2:38 PM:
" Its as simple as this. Follow the rules. Most of these rules are state law, not just something the Fibre management has thought up. McShane has said you need to be safe before you go to work. To me that means safety in all aspects of your daily tasks. From the time you come through the front gate to time you go back through the front gate at the end of the day. Its not always a conspiracy.
The only thing Fibre OWES you is a safe workplace for you and your friends and family. You may have got away with a lot in the past but now you must follow the rules. You have been told in the past how important safety is now they are trying to get it through your skull.
If it is really that bad, GO FIND ANOTHER JOB. I'm sure there are a lot of people willing to do your job and follow all rules set by the state of Washington, McShane and Nebel. "
The only thing Fibre OWES you is a safe workplace for you and your friends and family. You may have got away with a lot in the past but now you must follow the rules. You have been told in the past how important safety is now they are trying to get it through your skull.
If it is really that bad, GO FIND ANOTHER JOB. I'm sure there are a lot of people willing to do your job and follow all rules set by the state of Washington, McShane and Nebel. "
Apathy and negligence (1) wrote on Mar 21, 2008 2:41 PM:
" I was born and raised in a Union family, my Grand Father, Father, Brother, Sister, Aunts, Uncles and I have all participated in one union or another. The key word is participated. Any criticism that I would express about the Union were quickly met with, “if you don’t like the way the Union is heading, then you need to actively participate to effect change”. In my attempts to participate I quickly learned that the typical Union is only concerned with maintaining the status quo of assumed privilege. In today’s Union, Seniority no longer implies knowledge or responsibility, rather ordained privilege. At one time, you became a journeyman not because you held a remedial position for a specified amount of time nor performed a task long enough rather you achieved that status because you performed that task extremely well over a specified period of time. I am not attempting to degrade the status of Union employees but rather raise the alarm that many potential Union employees are being disenfranchised from advancing with merit. "
Apathy and negligence (2) wrote on Mar 21, 2008 2:42 PM:
" I feel that the only way for the Union to maintain its legitimacy in today’s environment requires a major overhaul of what and how the Union represents. Ultimately the Union should represent perfection, accountability and self enforcement. When an employer employees any Union member they should do so with confidence. For an employer to have to take such a radical step as sending home 300, for emphasis, 300 employees, is indicative of apathy and negligence of the Union leadership and its members. Union members need to take pride in their level of responsibility, not in their position of seniority. I feel that the only way for the Union to maintain its legitimacy in today’s environment requires a major overhaul of what and how the Union represents. Ultimately the Union should represent perfection, accountability and self enforcement. When an employer employees any Union member they should do so with confidence. For an employer to have to take such a radical step as sending home 300, for emphasis, 300 employees, is indicative of apathy and negligence of the Union leadership and its members. Union members need to take pride in their level of responsibility, not in their position of seniority. Additionally, Union members need to ensure and enforce fellow Union member’s compliance to their own strict standards, not those standards that our emplaced and enforced by those who pay your check.
Self regulation is the required rallying cry for those Unions that wish to regain and retain any legitimacy. "
Self regulation is the required rallying cry for those Unions that wish to regain and retain any legitimacy. "
OAB wrote on Mar 21, 2008 3:04 PM:
" Re: think about it. There are 4 stockman on #10 machine, another half dozen that can set up to that job. Thank you for giving them all a bad name. I'm sure your husband is proud. "
TO: to all wrote on Mar 21, 2008 3:19 PM:
" In my many years at Fibre there were at least 3 seperate safety programs.Maybe more. As soon as you became familiar with the "current" safety program there would be a complete over haul of the program. The Union and Union Safety people tried to have Fibre stay with one program or to at least see what worked in the mills with excellent safety records. But fibre likes to "Fibrerize" everything and in the process they have made the safety programs so convulted that even their own heads of safety do not understand or agree on what the program is or should be. Of course the total revamping of the safety program provides job justification for the safety office. But the people who have to follow and enforce the programs are in a state of confusion as to what the program is today. "
A supplier wrote on Mar 21, 2008 3:24 PM:
" Just to put what I say in perspective, I and not a pro union person. That being said, there is a noticable climate of fear being fostered at Fibre. Even if you don't know you are not doing something correctly you will be punished rather than corrected. There was a time when if you made a mistake someone would take the time to show you what you did wrong. Now there is a program rewarding people for turning in others for any violations. I found this out when I got a call from my boss threatening my job because someone turned me in for not waring proper Personal Protective Equipment. The best part is.... I don't work there. I had no way of knowing that the PPE list had changed, but there was a reward for turning me in, so my job was on the line. I can see if I had been told, then continued to violate policy, but that was not the case. My boss was called to a meeting, where he was informed that I was welcome to participate in the rewards program as well. I must assume that this offer is open to everyone. So beware Fibre employees, it is not only your so called "brothers and sisters" who are being encouraged to trample you rather than show you the error of your ways, it is every person who is on the Fibre site. "
old school wrote on Mar 21, 2008 3:32 PM:
" There are many things changing at Fibre, the mentaility that the company is out to get the union is not one of them. This mentaility has to change for LFPPI to make it. Everyone has to work together to make sure that no one is doing unsafe acts and still get the job done effeciently. The second thing that is not changing and desperatly needs to is "THATS NOT MY JOB". Every job down here is everyone's job. There are less people doing more work and without helping out your fellow "brother" the guys that give a damn will be right next to the ones that don't in the unemployment line. "
I write the manuals wrote on Mar 21, 2008 3:38 PM:
" I write the O&M manuals for industrial equipment much like what fills the Fibre wall-to-wall. I spend a lot of time with several engineering disciplines to get Lockout/Tag/Tryout correct, thorough, easy to read, and easy to do. It is very disheartening to have the operations and maintenance people toss the manuals in the corner “because we already know how to do it” as a new piece of machinery is commissioned. IT IS NOT A FEW BAD WORKERS! Safety is peer-to-peer. Safety is The Buddy System. Safety is you and your co-workers watching each other. If it takes a wakeup call to get the crew’s attention Safety is an "all-or-nothing deal," Do it!. Bert, the union can have the entry in the personnel file, if one is indeed made, be noted in a way it was part of a department-wide disciplinary action. The total cost is more because the work that was not done on regular time will now be done on overtime. "
So your telling me...... wrote on Mar 21, 2008 4:13 PM:
" 300 people violated the safety rules this week. I understand the need for safety procedures as I work in a hazardous field myself but to say the entire shift is unsafe is not right. I am a Boilermaker and if my employer punished me for something I did not do the union would be all over my employer. This sounds like a contract violation and the employees need to tell their union reps to stand up and do something. "
Hey old school, wrote on Mar 21, 2008 4:24 PM:
" The it's not my job mentality is not out of lazyness but a practice that keeps particular jobs with the people trained to do it. If an electrician did a plumbing job then that takes work away from the plumber and so on. If you were truly "old school" you would relize this. "
WOW!!! wrote on Mar 21, 2008 4:25 PM:
" Welcome to the real world folks!! Companies, union and non-union do this all the time. Lockout is a serious safety violation where I work and if caught not being locked out even once is a suspension. A second time and you're out the door! Repeated safety violations are documented and if you're a safety risk to yourself or others, that will get you a quick trip to the unemployment line. Oh yeah, the state will also consider this and most likely you won't get your benefits.
Safety has become an important issue with all companies and if you're not willing to step up and be accountable for your actions, management will. Each years hundreds of lives are lost because someone decided to skip a safety step. Not to mention countless body parts are lost because a safety step was skipped.
In the end it doesn't matter if you're union or not. If you choose to not make safety a priority then you'll have to accept and live with the outcome. "
Safety has become an important issue with all companies and if you're not willing to step up and be accountable for your actions, management will. Each years hundreds of lives are lost because someone decided to skip a safety step. Not to mention countless body parts are lost because a safety step was skipped.
In the end it doesn't matter if you're union or not. If you choose to not make safety a priority then you'll have to accept and live with the outcome. "
To: get over it wrote on Mar 21, 2008 6:33 PM:
" They work hard for their pay? That's not even true. Maybe 15 years ago they did. Everything is so automated there. I've worked for contractors who have jobs there once in a while. If you haven't noticed the whole industry has had serious lay offs in the past 10 years because machines do everyones job now. There only a few people there just to make sure the place don't blow up or burn down. The only people who even work hard there is contractors who are called in once or twice a year to clean all the chemical tanks out while the mill employees only point which tanks need cleaning and take air quality reading with their gas meter every 2 hours. The rest of the time they are sitting in the control room eating donuts and reading The Daily News. They defineatly have the time to make saftey a bigger priority. Not using the lock-out procedure correctly I think is very serious and the company should have recieved even bigger fines than they recieve. Is there really a price tag on a life? You people whining about them getting sent home with pay need to realize they did it because they realize that not everyone has been in violation but just want to get a message out that saftey is a priority. Seriously what's the union really gonna do? They were paid for the day after all. Wake-Up FIBRE, and lock-out properly. One minute can prevent a death. "
Glad wrote on Mar 21, 2008 6:37 PM:
" All that I can say is that I'm glad that I dont have to work with those ya-hoos anymore. None Union really is not a bad thing. I will move on and up based on my own actions, not someone who has been there 2 days more and is a worthless waste of skin and air. No more finger pointing and whinning. And safety?? Fibre is still so far behind the times that it is scary. Cant believe the maint. department finally got a butt chewing. About time. "
shirley minium wrote on Mar 21, 2008 6:50 PM:
" people in Longview still hate the Fibre for having a union. Wonder if these same people will ever figure out that these union members keep the town alive. Might get there wish soon, the Fibre will probably close down altogether. Can't wait to see how we handle that!!!!Union member/ can't imagine what it would have been like to work there without a union. Pure hell!! "
2ab wrote on Mar 21, 2008 7:41 PM:
" They are not saying that all 300 violated the rules. Our safety program is one where you need to actively watch out for our each other. If people are breaking the rules we have an obligation to stop them amd make sure they understand how it is supposed to be done. You cannot compare the old fibre to the new fibre. we have a new management with a dedication to safety. I have talked to all of them and that is the first thing out of their mouths, "are we being safe today"
You bunch of whiners need to get with the program. If you don't understand, STOP AND ASK someone, there are plenty of people around with the answers. "
You bunch of whiners need to get with the program. If you don't understand, STOP AND ASK someone, there are plenty of people around with the answers. "
Plumber wrote on Mar 21, 2008 8:34 PM:
" I am a union plumber and work for one of the county's largest employers (if not the largest). I have no problem with people being sent home for safety violations. I have watched smart, hard workers get fired for safety violations and have no problem with it. When you work in an unsafe manor, you not only endanger yourself, you endanger your coworkers.
I think they should axe then next bactch of unsafe workers. "
I think they should axe then next bactch of unsafe workers. "
Former Summer Help (Now have my 2 degrees - Accounting & Business) wrote on Mar 21, 2008 10:36 PM:
" Safety is a great idea. This method I would think isn't the best way to go about it by letting them go home with pay. At least doc them for 1 hour pay.
Possible Solutions... I worked their in the late 80's and 90's, been burnt by green liquir and black (less caustic) and also lived in Lime Dust washing core.
The whole mill needs to figure out what is safe to limit claims. Chemicals included.
Why not give some sort of benefit back to employees. Show them, educate them, build them up, not insult them and treat them like kids...
Idea... Show how much Safety, claims, etc. COSTS the Mill each year. Do a 10 year analysis.
Then make BENCH MARKS (GOALS) and say you do a year at $75,000 less not in saftey issues, give the employees $50,000 of it to split up. That if there were 1,000 eligible would be $50 bonus. Then the Company keep the other $25,000. It would be a win win for everyone. Folks would be more cautious and look out for each other for example around chemicals or for example on Lock Out procedures on a pulp reclaim unit or any other dangerous situation so less incidents and deaths would occur.
Reward the Good Behavior. Otherwise Acts like this aren't building anyone up, not educating your audience, and will create resentment towards the company.
It's a start. email me if you need me. "
Possible Solutions... I worked their in the late 80's and 90's, been burnt by green liquir and black (less caustic) and also lived in Lime Dust washing core.
The whole mill needs to figure out what is safe to limit claims. Chemicals included.
Why not give some sort of benefit back to employees. Show them, educate them, build them up, not insult them and treat them like kids...
Idea... Show how much Safety, claims, etc. COSTS the Mill each year. Do a 10 year analysis.
Then make BENCH MARKS (GOALS) and say you do a year at $75,000 less not in saftey issues, give the employees $50,000 of it to split up. That if there were 1,000 eligible would be $50 bonus. Then the Company keep the other $25,000. It would be a win win for everyone. Folks would be more cautious and look out for each other for example around chemicals or for example on Lock Out procedures on a pulp reclaim unit or any other dangerous situation so less incidents and deaths would occur.
Reward the Good Behavior. Otherwise Acts like this aren't building anyone up, not educating your audience, and will create resentment towards the company.
It's a start. email me if you need me. "
Hammer wrote on Mar 21, 2008 10:43 PM:
" I don't agree with the approach. It's old school and I personally think it's another excuse to add to a person's personnel file. That way when they need to shave off some more employees they can do so.
If they really wanted to make it a win win, they should check out or benchmark the costs over a period of time. Then do a 50% split between what that average is and what the following year expenses are. Make sure hourly (union) folks have representation in the meeting for the calculation or upper level management could bury any costs they want to scew the results.
From there for example if the Company had an average of $200,000 a year and their goal was to shave off $100,000 and they did it... You would have $50,000 to KEEP for your COMPANY and then also have $50,000 in Savings that you could Allocate to the Participating Employees.
That way you build them up, educate them, get them involved in cost cutting, increase awareness/involvment directly with the company. Make them feel like they can make a difference. I know that is forward thinking, but don't you think it's worth a try.
If you need me, I worked there in the 1990 as a summer helper. I currently have two college degrees one in Accounting and the other in Business and trust me, I have tons of ideas that are very progressive. I can work part time. "
If they really wanted to make it a win win, they should check out or benchmark the costs over a period of time. Then do a 50% split between what that average is and what the following year expenses are. Make sure hourly (union) folks have representation in the meeting for the calculation or upper level management could bury any costs they want to scew the results.
From there for example if the Company had an average of $200,000 a year and their goal was to shave off $100,000 and they did it... You would have $50,000 to KEEP for your COMPANY and then also have $50,000 in Savings that you could Allocate to the Participating Employees.
That way you build them up, educate them, get them involved in cost cutting, increase awareness/involvment directly with the company. Make them feel like they can make a difference. I know that is forward thinking, but don't you think it's worth a try.
If you need me, I worked there in the 1990 as a summer helper. I currently have two college degrees one in Accounting and the other in Business and trust me, I have tons of ideas that are very progressive. I can work part time. "
threaten them wrote on Mar 21, 2008 11:29 PM:
" do like Green Mountain does threaten to shut the mill down if anyone turns in an accident o yea there are. But what about the rest of weyerhaeuser and fibre do you get threatened if you get hurt and turn it in? "
Bert to I write the manuals wrote on Mar 22, 2008 8:04 AM:
" Yes Gary, I know you write the manuals. And rewite them and rewite them. You have amazing technical knowledege but it is time to stop "developing" the program and start teaching and and enforcing the progam. I still rememeber the day in Todd's office when you and Todd could not agree as to exactly what or how the specifics of how a section of the safety program meant. I thought you guys were going to duke it out. You guys wrote the program and if you two have seperate interpetations, how do you expect the staff in the mill to be able to follow the safety program? "
Everyone? wrote on Mar 22, 2008 9:04 AM:
" Did everyone of the 300 do something wrong? If not every single person that didn't should file a grievence to keep their record clean, and if management has to deal with 100 grievences they probably wont be as quick to do this in the future. P.S. make sure to file each one individually and argue each one individually. "
What do they really want? wrote on Mar 22, 2008 9:07 AM:
" And after they tell us you must work safe or else. When we tell them that a job is unsafe and we need to look at making it safer their middle management tell us if we can't get it done right now, they'll have contractors do the job. Now I believe that's Intimidation.
The company needs to first make sure their middle management is clued in and on the same page with their executives. "
The company needs to first make sure their middle management is clued in and on the same page with their executives. "
Old Fibre Guy wrote on Mar 22, 2008 9:11 AM:
" I spent nearly 40 years at the old LFCo working in almost every department in the plant beginning in the box plant as a laborer and retiring as a salaried employee in the maintenance department. I also served many years as a union officer and helped write the group tag out procedure for paper machines. Many of the systems in the mill have multiple lockout/tagout points and are very complicated and long distances apart making it tempting to skip a step or two relying instead on the interlocking usually involved. Doing it properly often eats up a lot of time, making it very costly in terms of lost production. This results in a "hurry up and get it done" attitude increasing chances for error. I was threatened with discipline by production supervision on several occasions for refusal to violate procedures during the lockout process. That pressure flows down to the mechanics working on the equipment when a production supervisor is standing over them wondering why it is taking so long to get his machine back on line. When questioned, supervisors would always emphasize safety but the in real world of production requirements, that frequently went by the wayside. It would appear that the issue of safety has become a primary goal of LFPPI and old attitudes have to change to make it work. The union will have to accept the reality of the situation and assume some responsibility for making the system work. The company will no longer tolerate violations. "
re: Former Summer Help wrote on Mar 22, 2008 11:18 AM:
" Your solutions ooze with intelligence, the kind that threatens the status quo. Hopefully, if you haven’t left already, you stay in the area and continue in your attempt to affect change. "
Trucker wrote on Mar 22, 2008 2:04 PM:
"
I heard the new plant manager is a house-cleaner that comes in and starts firing people left and right to avoid paying severence packages before the mill closes....I've heard alot of people have been already fired over silly "Safety Violations" Lets face it, this mill's days are numbered, get out while you can or the flood of jobless in this area will be catastrophic! "
I heard the new plant manager is a house-cleaner that comes in and starts firing people left and right to avoid paying severence packages before the mill closes....I've heard alot of people have been already fired over silly "Safety Violations" Lets face it, this mill's days are numbered, get out while you can or the flood of jobless in this area will be catastrophic! "
... wrote on Mar 22, 2008 2:33 PM:
" it isnt right i really dont know what these companies are thinking to get rid of so many employees "
OAB wrote on Mar 22, 2008 4:08 PM:
" Re Trucker: From what I have read the new guy does reduce the work force but he keeps coming into mills that are in trouble, or thinking about shutting down, and gets them profitable. As far as I can tell none of the mills he has worked for shut down. "
DoogleP wrote on Mar 22, 2008 5:16 PM:
" Way to go to who ever is in charge of maint dept at Fibre. GREAT GUY WHO ever it is.KUDOS "
Pam wrote on Mar 22, 2008 5:26 PM:
" What about the foreman of all these workers? Did they get sent home also? Seems to me they should be watching crew to make sure things are being done in a correct and safe manner, or am I way off? What do they get paid to do if not supervise? Oh, thats right, they are not to beheld accountable, can't have Fibre admitting their own are not doing the job they were hired to do. "
OAB wrote on Mar 22, 2008 8:35 PM:
" Re Pam: Everyone went home. Union mechanics, foreman, supervisors, planners, even the mechanical superintendant. "
Short Bus Driver wrote on Mar 22, 2008 10:01 PM:
" re Trucker: If you're that unhappy and negative why don't you leave? Or do you think Fibre owes you a living no matter what you do or don't do because they hired you? You heard this, you heard that, why don't find out the truth instead of helping rumors spread. As far as the union workers, if they cared enough to look out for each other and stopped each other from doing unsafe acts then the company wouldn't need to try and get their attention and dicipline wouldn't be an issue. After all it's the union workers that are getting hurt. As far as safety goes it sounds like the union body doesn't have a pulse. "
FYI wrote on Mar 22, 2008 11:26 PM:
" To Pam
Yes "all" were sent home,foremans, workers, clerks, no one was exempt "
Yes "all" were sent home,foremans, workers, clerks, no one was exempt "
Bert to Pam wrote on Mar 23, 2008 9:47 AM:
" I can tell you from personal experience what happens to the foreman. The Foreman are a protected species at the mill. The responsibility and accountablility falls soulily on the shoulders of the hourly employees. "
Safety Ex wrote on Mar 23, 2008 5:30 PM:
" I started Fibre in 1994 and the LO/TO manual was still being developed. When I left in 2002 the LO/TO manual was finally finished and maintenance training was just being finished. A very few months later the employee was killed due to LO/TO violations.
The training department was incorrectly training the new procedures. When it was brought to the Safety Offices attention it was stated that it was mainenances problem and they were never informed that they were training the LO/TO procedures incorrectly. "Not our problem anymore" I heard the entire conversation, questioned the Safety Tech, asked if he wanted me to get the Training Coordinator on the line and was rejected.
It is no wonder that Fibre has consistantly had one of the worst safety records in the USA. "
The training department was incorrectly training the new procedures. When it was brought to the Safety Offices attention it was stated that it was mainenances problem and they were never informed that they were training the LO/TO procedures incorrectly. "Not our problem anymore" I heard the entire conversation, questioned the Safety Tech, asked if he wanted me to get the Training Coordinator on the line and was rejected.
It is no wonder that Fibre has consistantly had one of the worst safety records in the USA. "
LeftField wrote on Mar 23, 2008 5:32 PM:
" As a former employee who left for greener pastures, it just makes me sick to hear the type of rhetoric spouted by some of the folks on this topic. The biggest concern of some is that there may be a "black mark" on my record. What about the concern for your fellow employee? And the other line that the poor union employee is being targeted, and not the supervisor, is simply ludicrious. I know for a fact that several supervisors have lost their jobs in the last two years for repeat safety violations. Finger pointing when it comes to safety is just juvenile behavior. From Frank McShane to Tom Rae many folks are trying very hard to change a safety culture that needed a turn around. Early in my career lock out was perceived as a necessary evil. That has changed radically, and it has been a joint union/company effort. Quit whining and see what you own when it comes to safety. Accountability? Thats simple....EVERYONE is accountable when it comes to safety. "
layed off fibre worker wrote on Mar 23, 2008 8:27 PM:
" okay i got to fill you guys who have no clue what you are talking about. i was working at fibre less than 2 months ago. and saftey there was still a joke then and i am sure it was not changed in the short time i have been gone. in reality they would preach saftey thru meetings, memos,and use it to disipline people they couldn't get for other violations. when it came down to it they just wanted the job done as soon as possible. production production was what they wanted at all costs. when saftey issues were brought up to them they were put on a list which were supposed to have high priority but in fact would get past up by any job that would help out production. i know of a issue personally that was turned into the mill manager and his assistant personally and was personally guaranteed by both of them it would get fixed. i know if you went to fibre right now the problem would still be there. bad you think well how about the fact that 3 injurys that were turned into L and I were becuase of this issue after it was turned in. so when why now do they decide to turn up the heat is it because they want to cut jobs or cause they really care about their employees. if they care about there employees they would take care of there saftey problems and set an example "
Bert To: layed off fibre worker wrote on Mar 24, 2008 9:06 AM:
" But didn't you read the earlier post? Fibre is under new management. Of course the new management is only upper management. Their primary duty is fiduciary. Their top prioity is to make as much profit for the share holders regardless of everything else. The front line management remains the same at the mill along with their ingrained attitude of production at all cost. "
Jei wrote on Apr 6, 2008 3:28 AM:
" There are companies they hire that hire there guys off the streets. TPI is a good example!! They hired like 100+ guys for the weyerhauser shut down that had NO experience with any of the stuff they had expected them to do. Ha you think thats safe. Sorry about our L&I dollars!!! Way to go TPI "
Disabled wrote on Apr 12, 2008 3:28 PM:
" In my 20 something years Ive never seen a bigger bunch of whiners in my life yes there are some very highly skilled people in the trades I know I was one of You because of state of safety I know the safest worker is the one who does his best to hide from work I admire the workers and Id fire the shirkers No more in house floaters no more in house vacations do your job making sure you work at the safe speed But make sure you work as directed unless you were told to do unsafe labor then refuse the work call a steward and make sure you work safe being disabled from a job I loved sucks so work like they want or go try to replace your job in the real world yes the good hands would get work the rest of you mechanical or machine hands or box plant workers just do what you are paid to do work and do the best job you can cause your job does depend on it where else can you get 6weeks vac. 13 holidays aretirement Insurance for your family.And to end I thank The Wollenburgs Weirtimers and the people who provided the money for kids education your homes food clothes and I thank God For men like Rick Wollenburg. go back to work break time is over. "
You guys Break me up wrote on Apr 12, 2008 3:47 PM:
" Work as directed unless its unsafe than you can refuse the job read your contract to the good hands of which there were many kudos to the rest of you lazy whining kids if you dont like the job quit then you will finally know what a good job you had.Thank you for the wollenburgs they bought your new rigs toys education ,over 20 years in mech. dept. made me see that all men are not equal but if you lazy shirkers would not quit 20 minutes early to get ready for break and lunch do your job or you are rite they will replace you and you lazy men and women could not replace what you have at Fibre if you tried just do your job watch out for one another and dont cripple any more people or worse yet dont ever kill anyone on the job again in the real world 50 percent of you I would cull out quit bitching and just do your job ask not what the co. can do for you what can you do for the co. your job do your best cause your job does depend on it. "
Past Month's Most Commented Stories