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Terri Marsh and Muriel Erickson are itinerant ministers who travel around the country and live in the homes of fellowship members. They currently are serving in the local area. Roger Werth / The Daily News

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Worldwide fellowship needs no building, no budget, no bishops

Sunday, February 10, 2008 7:08 AM PST

By Cathy Zimmerman
czimmerman@tdn.com

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While megachurches explode from 3,000 to 8,000 members who worship among espresso machines, huge TV screens and sophisticated sound systems, other groups of Christians choose a stance that is very quiet, very still.

"We have no denominational name," said Muriel Erickson, who has been a minister in a worldwife "fellowship of love" for 50 years. "We don't need any name. Jesus did not give a name to his ministry."

Erickson, an itinerant minister to hundreds of home-based churches operating with no hierarchy or financial structure, spoke recently about why her faith is best practiced quietly, humbly, and free of mortar and money.

"We follow the example Jesus gave by his own life," Erickson said. "Those he called and sent out took no salary, paid no tithe. They never passed a collection plate."

She and fellow minister Terri Marsh presently serve in Longview, living in the homes of members who welcome them for various periods of time. In Longview and Kelso, more than 100 members, organized into six groups, meet for worship in each other's homes.

"We believe in the New Testament, that the church is not in a building, but in people," Erickson said.

When Jesus said "Upon this I will build my church," he meant not an authority figure but "the revelation disciples had received," Marsh said.

The two women preside at worship, weddings and funerals; offer counsel and comfort, visit the sick and work in missions. Each owns nothing but a few suitcases to hold her clothes. They have not married nor had families; they live without homes and furnishings, cars, bank accounts and insurance policies.

"You keep your possessions down, because you're moving all the time," Marsh said. "In Europe, we can travel without a car. Here, we get lazy, because people give us the use of cars."

When they need medical care or a plane ticket for missionary work in Australia or Eastern Europe, "the gift" always appears, Marsh said. "The Lord provides the way in every century."

Erickson said members of the group do not own televisions ("we have found it takes away from the quietness of the home") and don't go to movies. Females dress in skirts of mid-calf length and wear their hair long, practices grounded in Scripture.

It's sometimes a challenge for teens, Marsh acknowledged, but that's not a bad thing.

Erickson added, "If they themselves have the kernel of the matter, if they want to do what would please Jesus, they choose to be modest. Not because their mother says, 'You have to wear this," but because they have conviction. It's lovely when that happens."

When all ages gather for worship, "We read the Bible, pray and worship in sincerity and truth," Erickson said. "We have found the way that works. It produces life, peace and hope without financial bondage.

"It is so beautifully simple."

On a February Sunday, two dozen members sit in silence, on folding chairs set up in a Longview family room. There are four teen-agers, several people in their 40s and many older than 50.

There's no chatter, not even whispering. Everyone has a Bible and a small hymn book. At Erickson's prompt, they beginning singing.

Bind us closer, Lord, and closer, As one body may we be.

And our love for one another, manifest in love for Thee. ...

The meeting has three parts that unfold in orderly precision. First, each member offers a personal prayer. Then, again taking turns, each one offers testimony, a few minutes of reflection based on a Scriptural passage. Finally, they share a communion of one tall glass of grape juice and one piece of bread.

Not only does it stretch to feed the entire group, but there's also some left.

"Home meetings are so reverent and so personal," Marsh said. "This is what we have found that feeds our souls."

At Wednesday Bible studies in school libraries or other venues, Erickson and Marsh explore lessons from Scripture for an hour. The messages and hymns reinforce themes: Life on Earth is brief. Jesus is coming. It is wise to be prepared -- and preparation brings peace and joy.

Afterwards, kids fly around and members linger to talk and laugh. They share a graceful but strict focus on the strengths of their path.

"This is our whole life," said Erickson. "We don't dwell on comparisons."

Erickson grew up in northern Wisconsin and was brought up in a fellowship home. Marsh, who is from Kent, Wash., was raised by "God-fearing" parents but came to the fellowship later. Her maternal grandparents belonged, and when, as an adult, she found herself missing something as a churchgoer, memories of their ways surfaced.

Marsh went to Australia to teach and attended fellowship there. For six years, she struggled with a yearning to go deeper, finally deciding to become a minister although it meant leaving a career she loved.

"To make the full commitment, I had to look at what I was giving up. ... I said yes to Him that called me. And I am thankful."

"You have an inner call, and you make it known to the group," she said. "We are 'trained in the yolk' "-- on-the-job practice with an experienced elder.

Newcomers find the group through friends or notices of meetings. They may join at the Gospel meetings, Erickson said. "All who would like to embrace the faith of Jesus stand to their feet, and raise their hands."

Full immersion baptism comes later, she said. "It's not a part of joining. Baptism has to do with a deeper commitment. It's forever."

Conventions held in other states and overseas allow a wider net of fellowship -- and love, Marsh said, smiling. Young members often meet their mates at the gatherings.

That's what happened with Lowell and Alice Modin.

Alice, who was visiting from New Jersey, attended a convention in Olympia where she met Lowell, a Longview contractor.

The Modins are both from families who raised them in the fellowship; Alice's ancestry includes great-great aunts who brought the belief system with them from Ireland in the 1800s.

The couple has three children, including a 19-year old son in the Navy and two teen-aged girls. The Modins don't put pressure on their children, their father said, because "the movement has to take place inside the person."

"If we believe in it and we love it, our kids have a blt of an advantage," Modin said. "Sitting through all these meetings for all these years, they're very aware of it."

For him, belonging to the fellowship is "the most important thing in my life. ... People spend a million dollars and can't buy what we have. There is a growth that comes with it . ... We can go through life with a smile."

great wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:13 AM:

" This all sounds wonderful and I am truly happy to hear of these people trying to stick to the basics.One thing I struggle with is what ISNT in this piece and that is: is there any emphasis at all on reaching the lost,the sick,those in need? Because without those it is just a support group for those on the inside and that would go against all that Jesus did.God bless you all "

Latoya wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:50 AM:

" What a refreshingly wonderful story. Thank you. "

The name wrote on Feb 10, 2008 9:28 AM:

" They are called "Cooneyites" or "Two by Twos". They will not recognize or greet their neighbors even when they know who they are. "

12 & 13 Year Old Brother HOME church Folks wrote on Feb 10, 2008 10:10 AM:

" I'm 12 and this is how church should be, not going to a building to pay for all the unnecessicary things, but to use money to help the fatherless and the widows. I feel that I get to know the Lord better like this.

I'm 13 and what I like about home church is that I can participate: lead worship with my guitar, skits and give my thoughts on the scripture being discussed. This is the real CHURCH! Check it out! After our meetings we have hours of fellowship with others. "

response wrote on Feb 10, 2008 11:07 AM:

" re "great" concern re emphasis on "lost, sick,those in need"...it does appear that Erickson's and Marsh's ministry does address those in such conditions.
"

Krista wrote on Feb 10, 2008 12:50 PM:

" I attend Terri Marsh & Muriel Erickson's services every Sunday in Toledo, WA. Their meetings are so fulfilling to the soul. I have been professing/following God's way since April 21, 2002. In the future I hope to make a deeper commitment to Him! "

Telling The Truth wrote on Feb 10, 2008 1:08 PM:

" For more in depth look at this church, see their full history at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~truth "

be truthful wrote on Feb 10, 2008 1:16 PM:

" What they forgot to tell the reporter is that in general the members of their church regard ALL other churches as "false churches." "

wondering wrote on Feb 10, 2008 1:18 PM:

" Since when did they start presiding at weddings? "

response wrote on Feb 10, 2008 1:28 PM:

" I was not raised in this way but I did attend meetings because of visiting some relatives. I found something that fed my heart like nothing else did. I beleive the ministry is very focused on reaching those that are spiritually lost and not a part of this fellowship. It is what they dedicate their lives to. I've been extremely happy for that. And beleive I will be eternally. "

William Irvine wrote on Feb 10, 2008 1:49 PM:

" [url]http://home.earthlink.net/~truth/index.html[/url]
The above link will take you to a website with more information about this sect, it's founder, history, etc... "

observer wrote on Feb 10, 2008 2:14 PM:

" There appears to be no ulterior motive or personal gain for these women (Teri and Muriel) to be ministering in such a way. There appears to be no tangible, political or financial benefit to the believers. If someone is seeking a spiritual group of people, they will likely check that group out. "

vot wrote on Feb 10, 2008 2:22 PM:

" beware google 2x2 church find out the truth about the truth "

TC wrote on Feb 10, 2008 2:37 PM:

" In response to "The name" remarked & their attempt to generalize & to make the 2X2 church members look unfriendly and stand-offish, my long-time "professing" parents, who belong to this particular way, have always been on cordial terms with many of their neighbors down through the years. "

more info wrote on Feb 10, 2008 2:47 PM:

" More info about this church:

http://www.thelyingtruth.info/ "

re; the name wrote on Feb 10, 2008 2:52 PM:

" They take no name as the artical says, They are called 2x2 by some but they do not call themselvs that. The cooneyites are a diffrent group. They can be found by google. "

Re: the name wrote on Feb 10, 2008 3:06 PM:

" They actually call themselves "The Truth" or "The Friends". The cooneyites are followers of Edward Cooney, who was a founder of this particular group, but later excommunicated. This group was started by Cooney and William Irvine around 1897 in Ireland. "

No structure? wrote on Feb 10, 2008 3:08 PM:

" This group actually has quite a strict hierarchy, it's just not in any written form, and unseen unless you are part of the group. And the financial structure is mostly "off the books" with the money in bank accounts under the trust of various members. "

Nathan B. wrote on Feb 10, 2008 3:13 PM:

" I have known these two beautiful Itinerant preachers ladies for many years. I too was an Itinerant minister like them for 8 yrs myself in Oregon, Montana, and Idaho. My experienced in the ministry had been very positive, wonderful, and Spirit-lead fellowship.

The 2x2 fellowship is no Cult, folks. Search, try it out for yourself. Come and see. It is a miracle how it all works! together.

Here's my 2x2 fellowship Website.

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-hobarker/topicsinbible.html "

horseman wrote on Feb 10, 2008 3:25 PM:

" The people are kind, good, gentle people. The ministers are sincere in what they do and in how they live. There is something in the system, a harshness, coldness or something that hurts people. Ask the children who were raised in this way who did not follow it, what their experiences were. Most would say that they were robbed of a childhood. I cry every day because of what my children went through because we raised them by how the 'workers' said the standards were. Not realizing the standards were not the standards of Christ but their own standards.
As one poster said, google 2x2 church. "

Deceived wrote on Feb 10, 2008 3:40 PM:

" This church is a very legalistic, deceptive organization.I was a member for 30 years. I was brainwashed into believing they were the only Christians saved, that all other churches were wrong.
They withhold baptism from believers until a member "conforms" to the group. Members have to give up makeup, jewelry,movies,Tv's; all perceived "worldiness" before the ministers deem them worthy to be baptized. The ministry controls their people with fear of "losing their salvation" if authority is usurped in any way. Since the ministers are unmarried/celibate, there is widespread sexual misconduct. Recently there have been ministers of this group convicted and sentenced for child molestation.
The ministry does not allow divorced people to remarry under any circumstance, as they consider it adultery. If a divorced person remarries, they are prohibited from participating in prayer or testimony in fellowship meetings. They are told they have "lost their salvation"
They are a wealthy organization.Many elderly followers will their entire estates to the ministry.They are incorporated with the U.S. government under the name "Christian Conventions of America"
More information is available about this religious sect on the internet under "2x2's, workers, Veterans of Truth(VOT;TTT Telling the Truth websites.

"

BEWARE wrote on Feb 10, 2008 4:22 PM:

" Please beware of this group. They are not what they seem. Check out the links already posted. Learn the TRUTH about the truth. Google-----2x2 church. "

Look closer wrote on Feb 10, 2008 4:33 PM:

" The truth about this legalistic religious sect is found on websites TTT "Telling the Truth" & VOT "Veterans of Truth" Many ex-members have posted about their experiences with the religion. Widipedia/ 2x2's,workers, Christian Conventions of America "

cultmember wrote on Feb 10, 2008 4:47 PM:

" I was a member of this so-called church for over 50 years. BEWARE, it is a cult. Check out the websites mentioned. Not all they mention in the article they wrote is the truth. There is NO love in this false way. BEWARE!! "

asking wrote on Feb 10, 2008 5:53 PM:

" they don't mention that these "ministers" only visit the most "favored" saints who are sick and dying. no visits made to anyone outside this "fellowship". "

once was wrote on Feb 10, 2008 6:03 PM:

" yes, I too was a member for many years, but the only agenda was to please the ministers. no love, no outside contact, no life for members, only obey what the ministers say. "

Joel wrote on Feb 10, 2008 6:05 PM:

" This is one of the many "Only Way" churches. They believe all Christian
believers are wrong. They do not follow fundamental Christian beliefs.
They believe they earn salvation. They are deceived and do not even
know what grace is. This fellowship is just a society, patterned after
Freemasons. It started in Ireland in 1897, but some of they say it
started with Jesus. But they redefine Bible terms and confuse people.
They are listed by Christian watch organizations among the many
pseudo-Christian churches. They do not publish what their doctrine is
and their enforced doctrine varies thoughout the U.S. and the world. "

abbazaba wrote on Feb 10, 2008 6:18 PM:

" This group denies cardinal truths key to the historic Christian faith. They deny faith by grace alone, and the deity of Christ.

Beware them, they are wolves.

There is a hierarchy, there are finances, they do have an incorporated way.

They do not know the truth.

"

No cult from Georgia wrote on Feb 10, 2008 6:41 PM:

" My wife and I have been a member of this group for over 40 years as has my 4 brothers and sisters in various parts of the country.My 4 children are enjoying it too. This is not a cult in any way. As a teacher in a public school my children are happier than their peers as my wife and I are as well. In Georgia where most everyone is friendly we are well liked by our neighbors. We could leave this fellowship at any time.We choose not to,as each year goes by we feel more fortunate to have a part in this way. We have never seen anything that could give us as much joy. "

Satisfied wrote on Feb 10, 2008 7:34 PM:

" I am satisfied in Jesus now. I was born and raised in this fellowship and become more and more satisfied as the years pass. I feel as tho' I have been saved from so much heartache and pain. One must remember that we are all human and unfortunatley prone to make mistakes. Noone has ever claimed that these ministers were without sin or perfect. Jesus Christ is the only sinless one and this is what they teach. We strive to be like Jesus & thankful for his cleansing blood that makes us whole. I feel those that have turned aside lost their love, but would be welcomed back with open loving arms should they honestly want to enter in again. If you are looking to find fault you will...this applies to everything in life. Our relationship with God is very personal and it is him who convicts us of wrong and sin. I have received nothing but encouragement and love being a part of this fellowship. Regardless of how we choose to worship we will be judged by God in the end. I hope you are all found faithful! "

exmembers wrote on Feb 10, 2008 7:43 PM:

" My question for those who have chosen not to be a part of this way is "why don't you go away in peace? why do you continue to make false accusations? do you continue to be convicted from God? why are you so angry?" "

Jessi Hagen wrote on Feb 10, 2008 7:44 PM:

" They don't share the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "I am the Way, the truth and the life. They call themselves "The Way" and "The Truth". wonder if they think they are the Life, too? Jn 17:17. The Bible is the Truth. They do not believe that Jesus is God and they deny the Trinity altogether. That makes them a cult. They do not believe that God came down to earth in the flesh to save His people. They do not stress that Jesus was beaten to a bloody pulp, punished for our transgressions -- and crucified on a Roman cross, suffering in our place. They never talk about how He rose again and now lives and is the Head of the Church. They They did not share any gospel about Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God. That's what's missing. Jesus, whose Name is above all names. They only "follow his example." They say nothing of His death. Yet Paul says that a true preacher doesn't preach himself, but Christ and Him crucified and resurrected. A true preacher glories in the Cross of Christ (Gal 6:14). Notice how it was all about what they do and how they do it and all about themselves -- Interesting that the Bible says in 2 Cor 4:5, "For we preach not ourselves but Christ Jesus the Lord." I was born and raised in this cult. I can tell you all about it. laloca83@netzero.com. "

Sweet wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:13 PM:

" "How beautiful are the feet of those thar preach the Gospel of peace"! Isn't the response to this wonderful article just like the responses Jesus and the New Testament ministry received? Proof's in the "pudding" and I've sure been enjoying the "pudding" for 50 years! THANKS! "

Satisfied wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:14 PM:

" Every organization has someone in it that is deceptive or wrong in some way. What God has for our souls is only good. I am completely satisfied with what God has given to me and for the message that is shared in the gospel meetings. I am thankful that God's way is free from all the bondage that comes with serving the flesh. There is no source of soul peace, rest, and joy than what comes from God's way and I hope that those who are interested would come and see for themselves that there is soul bread in the gospel meetings. "

Kay E. wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:40 PM:

" to be truthful: many denominations claim to be the only group that can attain heaven: Jehovah's Witnesses, LDS, etc. There are so many different religious groups all claiming to be the true way. Jesus said: wherever three or more are gathered in My name, there I shall be also. "

Member wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:50 PM:

" I am a member of this group. It is large, old and global. This group aspires to a perfect standard. The people are not perfect. I do not judge ALL other churches to be "False". I care about my neighbors. According to The Word a 'church' is simply a group of people. This is a large group and as you can see by the comments posted already. Many have judged it both positively and not-so-positively. Paul didn't think he was qualified to judge people as individuals or groups. My experience with this group transcends positive. But as far as passing judgment on the group or its members, even after 37 years of experience with it I don't feel qualified to judge. To the reporter: Thank You. To those of you who feel wronged by this group or a member or members of it: I am sincerely sorry, please forgive and I hope you are finding peace and growth where you are now.

Member
"

True Friend wrote on Feb 10, 2008 9:07 PM:

" The comments of the ones who are claiming wrong doing and falsehood by the church are false in themselves. This is definitley the way Jesus Christ commanded his church to be. Ask God, He will tell you, and help you to cut through all the garbage spewed out from those who don't desire to live like Jesus desires those who love Him, to live!! "

Come and See wrote on Feb 10, 2008 9:23 PM:

" Instead of believing what you read here, just "come and see" for yourselves. Then decide for yourself if what you hear spoken lines up with what Jesus taught. Decide if you can feel the Spirit of God teaching and drawing you unto Himself. Just ask God for what is right in His sight. He will be faithful to show you Salvation through His Son. Jesus said that "the gates of hell would not prevail against His church". So it must still be here, right? It is. Come and See. "

A True Believer wrote on Feb 10, 2008 9:55 PM:

" I have been in this way for 54 years and it only grows sweeter each year. When one isn't willing to do the will of God they only become bitter and have unrest in their soul. Thank you to the reporter for the nice article. "

grammi wrote on Feb 10, 2008 10:36 PM:

" The Daily News wrote a nice and fair article. It was kind of Terri and Muriel to allow the article to be done. The criticism is as what I expected. Those who love it, love it still. Those who don't, still don't. It was written for those that are seeking. "

kiwi wrote on Feb 10, 2008 10:53 PM:

" This article is full of half truths. Notice how much they talk about money.

Also, they do not help the poor, they only visit their own members. They do not preside over weddings. They do not live without cars, homes or bank accounts. They have bank accounts, laptops, and many have mobile phones, and they live in houses just like everyone else. The no bank account is a lie. They have bank accounts in their names and money cards.

Women do not wear long hair in this group. They wear it up, not long.
After meeting kids do not fly around and members do not linger around and laugh. We are told to go quietly home so as to not lose the spirit and kids are made to keep quiet.
NO hierarcy or financial structure is another lie. The group is based on a hierarcy of head workers at the top followed by senior workers, elders etc. and there is a financial structure, the money is controlled by the hierarcy.

Groups that claim to be the only way as someone mentioned above (JWs, Mormons etc) are considered cults. "

oz wrote on Feb 10, 2008 11:06 PM:

" Notice how those in the group are taught that if people leave the group they are leaving God.The post above (A true believer) shows the brain washing of those in the group. "

Im Interested... wrote on Feb 10, 2008 11:10 PM:

" The one thing this article leaves out is how to attend if we are interested in going. Sound nice to me but I have no idea on were to go. Would some please post a way we can attend?
Thanks
"

To Cathi Zimmerman wrote on Feb 10, 2008 11:43 PM:

" Wonder if there are enough comments here to do somemore research into the group. Seems like a sequel might be in order. "

member wrote on Feb 11, 2008 12:54 AM:

" Hi I'm in this fellowship in New Zealand and am thankful for my brothers and sisters world wide.
I am thankfull for those on here who express their love for this way.
I do notice there are many posts of people who wish to condem us and accuse us, but you won't find us actually doing as they say.
If any on here wish to know more about us please pray unto the Father for His guidance "

alan wrote on Feb 11, 2008 1:01 AM:

FriendamI wrote on Feb 11, 2008 2:16 AM:

" When I was a professing member of this fellowship I believed the following - all other Christian preachers, churches, and people were false. - that I had to earn or work my way into heaven - that salvation through faith alone was a lie - that salvation via Grace was a lie - that worshiping in a church building was wrong - that true preachers of God must be homeless - that the only way someone could HOPE to get into heaven was to join our fellowship church.

I'm sure these ladies are very nice, but I have no doubt they reject all other Christians and Christian preachers in their area as lost souls who need to come to God's fold (their church system)

May God bless their lives by removing the legalistic fog from their minds and show them the truth about "The Truth"! "

satisfied wrote on Feb 11, 2008 2:37 AM:

" I posted something a few minutes ago but it got lost. So I'll try again.

How long I have known this way isn't important. What is important is having God in our lives. These two kindly fine ladies truly have God within them. And they are giving their lives in service to God. The Gospel they teach is the Gospel of Christ. They are servants of God. I agree with the poster called 'come and see' come and see. I probably have one of the most difficult personalties there is. I would like to have more of the spirit of Christ that I see in these two. Come and see.
I do not drive after dark so I haven't been to gospel meetings for a while. The days are getting longer, soon.

Thank you Muriel and Terry

Any group will have some that error. That does not define the whole group. Any of us can error, that is why Christ died on the cross. Forgivness is paramont.

"

response to Believer wrote on Feb 11, 2008 3:14 AM:

" True Believer said the "way" grows sweeter each year. Yeah, if you tow the line with the "workers", they don't care what Jesus said or did, what counts is what they say and command you to do! "

Seek for yourself wrote on Feb 11, 2008 8:34 AM:

" A current member of this group has mentioned on a board that the ex-members are trying to prevent others from going to this group's meetings. As an ex-member I encourage anyone and everyone to go to the meetings. Even more, if you have biblical questions, ask them and ask them where in the Bible can you find the answers so that you can study them later. "

Believer wrote on Feb 11, 2008 8:51 AM:

" This fellowship is the exception. I've known about it and known a personal relationship and walk with Jesus for a number of years. The Gospel is freely preached as it has been freely given. No emphasis on money or pressure to give or tithe. The focus is on Jesus and what He taught and brought and sent forth. The human element is unavoidable and ideally is addressed as it should be with brotherly love, forebearance and forgiveness. "

Believer wrote on Feb 11, 2008 8:59 AM:

" This fellowship is not popular with the world. It is, however exceptional in many ways-most of which do not appeal to the flesh. It's simple, yet deep with intricate bonds of brotherly love. It's ethereal. It tranascends time and what carries it is the Spirit and love, not the human element. I suppose this could be said for any body of believers and fellowshi, group, but there is something that sets this one apart, which is is only revealed by the Spirit. "

thankful for this wrote on Feb 11, 2008 9:25 AM:

" To "I'm interested" and others who may wish to attend meetings like this: Please send an e-mail of your request to the reporter's e-mail at the top of the article, and she will forward the info to those who can respond.
Please come and see for yourself. There is no obligation. 6 generations of my family have followed this, and we haven't found anything closer to scripture. We are thankful for it. "

My Experience wrote on Feb 11, 2008 9:52 AM:

" My beloved family members joined this years ago. It has all but ended our friendship because the church takes all their spare time away and there is no time left for the family. We, the ousted family, are strong Christians, don't drink, smoke, cuss, or do anything untoward that might offend the home worshipers. We love one another. It's just that this church has come between us and estranged us. Time is ticking away and all those wonderful memories we COULD have had are taken away, month by month, year by year... we don't get to enjoy each other's company.

I ask you: is this what Jesus would want? "

Wondering!! wrote on Feb 11, 2008 10:43 AM:

" If those of you are happy out of truth, why can't you just go your way and be Happy instead of trying to corrupt everyone else?. "

To "My Experience" wrote on Feb 11, 2008 10:45 AM:

" Then join them in thier fellowship and it will sweeten your family ties - I promise!! "

To "My Experience" wrote on Feb 11, 2008 10:46 AM:

" Then join them in their precious fellowship and it will sweeten your family ties - I promise!! "

To My Experience wrote on Feb 11, 2008 10:49 AM:

" Then join them in their precious fellowship and it will sweeten your family ties - I promise! "

kiwi wrote on Feb 11, 2008 11:33 AM:

" If people go to meeting it will not take them long to see that there is something wrong with this group where they all dress the same. The women wearing skirts and their hair up in a smiliar style. it does not take long for people to see that this is a cult that controls how members dress and live. It won't take long before they realise that this group is not Christian but that it claims it is the way, rather than Jesus is the way. That peopel give thanks and praise to the ministers that came into their lives rather than Jesus. Most people who join from the outside don't last in the group when they get to know more about it. Try asking questions and you will be told to just keep coming to meetings. They will not answer questions, another mark of a cult. They are not honest about how their group started. They are not a lose group of Christians but an organised church.

A true Christian will see that this group is not based on the Bible. That the sacrifice of the ministry is placed above the sacrifice of Jesus.

I say go and see and you will see what those who speak against the church are saying is true. "

sojourner wrote on Feb 11, 2008 12:26 PM:

" Many of the ex's have divorced and remarried (with living spouses). That is against the New Testament covenant teachings according to the Lord Himself. Therefore, they have to be negative about anything that they can even if those who practice it do not see it that way.

None of the ex's have found a church that is better than this living way which is the body of Christ here on earth. Some have attached themselves to this or that for a time, and then wander off looking for a new group to fellowship with. A few say they have found this or that church that fits/meets their "requirements." Many remain "orphans" and do not go anywhere for fellowship. "

Jesse Lackman wrote on Feb 11, 2008 12:35 PM:

" Thank you for a fair article.

The label "cult" is used so casually and subjectively these days it has practically lost all meaning. Not everyone using the "cult" label on the internet is a recognised expert on the subject, I had a long conversation with Steven Hassen's office about this. They understood how people build an imaginary (subjective) strawman (it's a cult, they practice mind control, etc. etc. etc.) then attack that strawman using a Freedom of Mind open file as an "argument from authority". Steven's office told me that just because Freedom of Mind might have an open file on a group that does not mean the the group has been formally classified as a cult. They apologized to me for people who use their data and publications in this deceptive way.

I've linked this article to a topic at Steven Hassen's Freedom of Mind yahoo group to see what objective and people there think of the article and the comments.

Jesse Lackman "

ex elder wrote on Feb 11, 2008 12:43 PM:

" I have met Muriel and she is a very nice lady. However, that doesn't change the fact that this group operates far outside of orthodox Christianity (personally I have no doubt it is correctly labeled a cult of Christianity). Anyone checking into the group should ask these questions of a fair sized sampling of both members and workers and compare their answers:
Do you believe you are the only group that is saved? (Yes)
Do you believe in the Trinity? (No)
Do you believe Jesus is God? (No)
Do you believe in salvation by grace (no, it is license to sin)
Do you believe the workers are the only true servants of God? (Yes)

There are many more serious doctrinal and scriptures issues that will expose the group as pseudo-Christian, but this will get you started. BTW, I was an elder in the group for 30 years and did exactly what I've suggested here. I only wish I had done it 30 years earlier. "

Bradly Lewis wrote on Feb 11, 2008 1:51 PM:

" I'm glad Terri Marsh and Muriel Erickson published their lies.

This group does not following the teachings of Jesus Christ and practices information control.

Do a google search on "2x2 cult", "william irvine", "The secret sect", "2x2 workers" "2x2 friends" and you will find more information.

One sided articles full of lies like this merely spread their propaganda.

I was a member of this cult for 33-34 years and was a worker for 1.5 years.

Money is handled by wealthy elders who may invest the money in the stock market and many women workers are not given access to it.

Learn about mind control and cults reading Steven Hassan's book "Combatting Cult Mind Control". While they will not list cults for fear of being sued, they fully publish the standards to judge an organization as a cult and this group clearly fits the bill.

1) Control of conversations
2) Planned spontaneity
3) Conformity to their behaviors and rules
4) Repititious confession
5) Private interpretation and sacred science
6) Loaded language specific to the cults doctrines
7) Their beliefs over the physical and mental health of people
8) Dual personalities (hiding TVs when workers come over)

Read more at http://www.2x2ministry.org

Please read more about mind control and cults "

Satisfied wrote on Feb 11, 2008 1:52 PM:

" We pray to God in Jesus' name and are guided by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life. We love and trust God, and believe the reward is: perfect peace. "

Hehehe wrote on Feb 11, 2008 2:16 PM:

" And the Gospel Battle Begins. "

oz wrote on Feb 11, 2008 3:21 PM:

" Many of those who have left the group have gone on to find Jesus who was missing from the group this article is about.

The problem is that many leave the group and are too afraid to go to another church as they have been brought up to believe that all other churches are of the devil. Many report going to another church with fear and trembling believing the devil will be there. That is what we were taught and for many the brainwashing from the group lingers on. For others this group turns many away from God so that when they leave they don't want to have anything to do with religion. For many of us however, we have found Jesus outside of the group. "

NotOffended wrote on Feb 11, 2008 4:37 PM:

" If people go to meeting it will not take them long to see that there don't need to be anything wrong with this "group" in spite of they all dress the same. The women wearing skirts and their hair up in a smiliar style. Is
there anytning wrong with skirts and long hair set up? It does not take long for people to see that this people obey God more than men and they honour God with their lives. And it won't take long before they realise that this people are true Christians and they belong to the way, it means they want to do the will of God on His premises and not their own. If this is the way God has established, nothing can beat them, and if noone can beat them JOIN THEM! That people are so thankful for the footsteps of those ministers that brought the gospel within their reach that they give thanks and praise to God for Jesu who came into their lives. Most people who join from the outside last in the way when the word of God is preserved in their hearts. The faith don't ask questions and the doubt don't have any answers! There is a statement of a judgement that this way is NOT a cult. As long as they are a part of the body Jesus Christ, He is the founder and the cornerstone a sign which will be spoken against. "

texas cowboy wrote on Feb 11, 2008 5:19 PM:

" Many people that leave this christian group are very bitter and can't let go.They are on a mission to bring down this christian group and it consumes their live.Most of these people are very hateful.I am not a member but know some in Texas that are-great honest folks. "

me wrote on Feb 11, 2008 5:21 PM:

" These people sound sincere. My question is do they really believe the Bible is the word of God, that Jesus is God's son sent to earth, who died for our sins and through his grace is the only way for forgiveness of sins and eternal life? I didn't quite understand in the story what they believe. I agree that church has nothing to do with the building and everything to do with the people who gather there to worship and learn about God, and that could take place anywhere. Some of the comments of these church attenders sound "rehersed" and a little off. "

Karleen wrote on Feb 11, 2008 5:42 PM:

" My great-grandparents, grandparents, and parents all CHOSE to be associated with this fellowship. Many of my friends and relatives around the world continue to make this choice for themselves--and many I know have chosen not to--for various reasons. I still love them and associate with them. We are each accountable for our own choices in life. The websites re: Cooneyites, Two x Twos, etc have been around for many years. I have read many of them, and having personal knowledge of a few of the examples and stories told, can say that while there may be some truth to them, they are written with a ‘spin’ that leaves the reader with a misrepresented impression of the actual circumstances. Why post a well-networked web if nobody is MAKING an individual believe one way or another? If you don't agree with the doctrine or beliefs of ANY religious way, then why not just leave the fellowship peacefully with full freedom to do so? What is the purpose/motive of taking an argumentive stance or creating a passionate, public expose`? The A/P newswire and TV anchors frequently report ministerial and parishioner misconduct in all religions across the board…Personally, I find comfort in the Bible verses from The Acts 5:34-39. Basically, don’t worry. If this way is of men, it will fizzle out-but if it be of God you can’t overthrow it. "

Karleen wrote on Feb 11, 2008 5:51 PM:

" My great-grandparents, grandparents, and parents all CHOSE to be associated with this fellowship. Many of my friends and relatives around the world continue to make this choice for themselves--and many I know have chosen not to--for various reasons. I still love them and associate with them. We are each accountable for our own choices in life. The websites re: Cooneyites, Two x Twos, etc. have been around for many years. I have read many of them, and having personal knowledge of a few of the examples and stories told, can say that while there may be some truth to them, they are written with a 'spin' that leaves the reader with a misrepresented impression of the actual circumstances. Why post a well-networked web if nobody is MAKING an individual believe one way or another? If you don't agree with the doctrine or beliefs of ANY religious way, then why not just leave the fellowship peacefully with full freedom to do so? What is the purpose/motive of taking an argumentive stance or creating a passionate, public expose`? The A/P newswire and TV anchors frequently report ministerial and parishioner misconduct in all religions across the board...Personally, I find comfort in the Bible verses from The Acts 5:34-39. Basically, don't worry. If this way is of men, it will fizzle out-but if it be of God you can't overthrow it. "

This is what Jesus said would happen... wrote on Feb 11, 2008 7:18 PM:

" In answer to a previous post, bitterness is caused becuase of unwillingness and unbelief, not the group or the people. I've been enjoying Jesus' words in Matthew 24, where Jesus says (vs. 9-10)'ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another' (vs. 12-13) 'And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.' It's encouragement to me to know that what he spoke is true. To those of you who are bitter against the Truth, you are fulfilling scripture. To those of you who are patiently continuing and enduring, you are fulfilling scripture. Thank you. "

Michigan believer wrote on Feb 11, 2008 7:34 PM:

" Readers should understand that the reporter asked and printed answers to certain questions. She was interested in mostly the outward form of the meeting she attended. (How else does one write an article? By description!)Her observations however, are not entirely accurate. Their are NOT rules about skirt lengths, nor about watching movies, etc. Your convictions tell you what is appropriate to wear and do and see and participate in. It is a personal revelation and conviction. The Holy Spirit does unify, and that is why you will look similar to--and will feel at home with--any believers the world over. The doctrine certainly IS Jesus, it is all Jesus, and those who believe understand this. We live by Jesus' teachings, and believe in the Bible. (The apostle Paul writes about hair length.) The understanding of scripture has to be revealed, and that is why so many are confused and deceived about the loss of their faith. Jesus prayed to God while here on earth, and we too have the privilege of praying to God through Jesus' name. So pray. If you are truly seeking the Truth, you will find it. When you find God, you find his people; when you find his people, you find Him. Don't be deceived by those who are misguided, bitter, mistaken,or who write intentional lies about this faith. "

Happy "In The Way" wrote on Feb 11, 2008 8:09 PM:

" Understanding from a young child and being a member from my early days, I can honestly say that life in "THE WAY" is absolutely beautiful to behold. It provides a peace that passes all human ability to comprehend, when the Word of God is within. The Word, which is "The Word of God, and spoken (written words in New Testament) through Jesus himself as well as those who were moved by God in the Old testament to write accounts of a life by faith in God, and those who were disciples of Jesus in the New Testament, wrote of accounts and tribulations as well as joys and sorrows that all Christians would go through.

It also states clearly in the scripture, both old and new, that those who go against God and His Word will strive to defend their own cause, but will not be able to. God is Almighty, and though he does allow many things, he will never allow His Way, Truth, and Life in the manifestation of Jesus Christ His son, to be mocked into total disbelief by all.

Looking at the "way" from both sides, I can truly and honestly say that while everyone is still human, when we seek to get God's understanding of any matter, we realize how sweet "The Way" is. It's perfect, leads to peace, and lasting. It cannot be perfected by man, it's perfect from the begining. That's a beautiful Truth of God's way, nothing can take away. "

jon wrote on Feb 11, 2008 8:20 PM:

" Every one seams so angry and wants you to come see thier web site about why this way is wrong. If they have found a better way none have mentioned it. They only want to complain. If you are reading this because you are searching for God, then I would recomend you pray to God and he will show you the way. "

In The Way wrote on Feb 11, 2008 8:24 PM:

" This "Way" IS of Jesus Christ, from the beginning, and always will be to the end of the world. Many people of organized churches have found that the doctrines that they believe are MOSTLY true, but it's nice to know that we can believe EVERY WORD of Truth, not from what PEOPLE SAY, but from what GOD AND JESUS SAY. THAT'S WHAT MAKES FOR TRUTH.

I know people who are "in the Way" and fear losing out, and yet they don't love very many people, let alone themselves or their families. They have wreaked havok of their own. However, there are also those "in the Way, who truly DO LOVE. Their love goes way beyond themselves, their kin, to their neighbors, friends, strangers, and foreigners alike. To them, there are no strangers. Like Jesus himself, he saught to be with those in need. He dwelt with those with whom he loved and followed him. Our ministers dwell (live) amongst their own, but they truly do seek those in whom a great emptiness is felt, and low and behold, GOD DOES HIS WORK through their willingness to be led to those in need.

There are countless stories, some told, some never told, of people who have LOVED the way of Jesus. Haven't seen ONE dissappointed "IN THE WAY" yet!

I've seen those dissappointed in those in the way, however. Mostly because they're looking for a human goodness...SORRY...Look To Christ! You'll FindIt! "

Forgiven wrote on Feb 11, 2008 8:45 PM:

" Well, it would seem that these folks seek HIS truth, but have become legalistic as the pharisees were. If Jesus walked among us today, and a prostitute came into their midst to wash Christ's feet, what would they say, what would they do. Sounds like they are good hearted people who just have been led astray of Christ's Real message, which is to spread the gospel to EVERYONE, not just those as yourselves. I will keep them in prayer. "

ghost boy wrote on Feb 11, 2008 8:54 PM:

" If it's such a good place to worship why don't the members posting here tell us were they go to worship. "

Deanne wrote on Feb 11, 2008 10:44 PM:

" I love this worldwide fellowship. I have attended meetings from Florida to Alaska, California to Boston, and live in Hawaii. In all places, in all the meetings, I've felt spiritually fed and uplifted by the Holy Spirit. There are differences in tradition, culture, and practice, but there is unity in brotherly love and the desire to have a living relationship with our heavenly Father. I'll repeat another: come and see.... and better yet! Come and feel! "

bishop wrote on Feb 11, 2008 11:27 PM:

" Even the title of this article is wrong.

It says, "Worldwide fellowship needs no building, no budget, no bishops."

This is not true. It has buildings, many, they hire halls for public meetings and spend thousands of dollars a year building buildings on their convention grounds each year.

They have a budget, money is a big part of this church, just they don't have open collections during the service, but a lot of people give money to workers as they leave mission meeting or give it to the workers when they visit.

They do have bishops too. Who said they do not have bishops. Every meeting has a bishop over it, sometimes they call him elder but the term bishop is also used.
"

oz wrote on Feb 11, 2008 11:31 PM:

" Why don't people just keep quiet about this church? The Bible tells us to preach it from the mountain tops so I guess that that not only applies to workers in this group but anyone who wants to warn people of false teachers.

The workers in this group have run down ministers and other churches since it was started by William Irvine in 1897 so why is it wrong for outsiders to warn people about this group.

"

the truth wrote on Feb 11, 2008 11:40 PM:

" is what Jesus said would happen... wrote on Feb 11, 2008 7:18 PM:

I've been enjoying Jesus' words in Matthew 24, where Jesus says (vs. 9-10)'ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another' (vs. 12-13) 'And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.' It's encouragement to me to know that what he spoke is true. To those of you who are bitter against the Truth, you are fulfilling scripture. To those of you who are patiently continuing and enduring, you are fulfilling scripture."

I would say that these words apply to those in this group who have persecuted Christians since it started. The man who started this group grew bitter against those he had professed through and broke away to start his own church. His love waxed cold against the body of Christ and we now have this group that claims it is the truth.

Folks, Jesus is the way and the truth, not a group.

Jesus changed the world, spoke openly about everything and hid nothing while most people have never heard of this group which keeps secret its sermon notes so that outsiders cannot see unlike Jesus who hid nothing. "

I see wrote on Feb 11, 2008 11:44 PM:

" Notice how many of those who post they are in the church talk about THEIR way. How it is the right way. How this way is a perfect way.
See how they say they are so happy but many of those on the outside are disappointed.

Looks like a only way ism to me.

I don't even have to be associated with the church to see that. Just have to write what the members wrote.

Reminds me of Jehovah's Witnesses and how they react to members who have left - - calling them apostates.

Wouldn't want part of that!!!!!! "

why deceive wrote on Feb 11, 2008 11:48 PM:

" I am learning so much about this church which was kept hidden from us growing up. Why were we told that this group was started by Jesus when I am now reading that it was started by man 110 years ago? So many things I am learning about meetings that I never knew. I was had, and lied to. Being lied to that we were started by Jesus is enough for anyone to see this group is not the truth. How can people continue to support this ministry when they ahve lied to us. Seems like they prefer to live in denial. I think honest peopel leave the group and the dishonest ones stay.

I don't see bitterness in those who leave, I see them wanting to tell the truth and those inside the group wanting to keep them quiet. The word bitter has been used since I was in meeting adn it is the word that is used by those who leave. Why defend a group when it lies about how it was started. A man broke away from another church, why hide that? "

Love and Peace wrote on Feb 12, 2008 12:20 AM:

" I attended gospel meetings and conventions with this group on occasions for several years now. I belong to another Christian faith group and believe God provides His people with many opportunities to come to know Him so that we all may share in eternal life with Him. I experienced being judged by many people from this group because I choose not to become a member of their group. The main reason I attended is out of respect for a friend of mine who is a member. Like all human beings not one of us is without sin. We may believe in the same God, yet no faith group has all the answers or is perfect. I do not judge the people who belong to this group and hope that they would offer me the same respect. Jesus tells us to love one another, but how can we truly love another person if we pass judgment on them. I pray for my friend and family and ask for prayers. Jesus knows our hearts in the end Jesus and His Father will be the final judge. I am thankful for my faith and the faith of others that believe Jesus is the Way, The Truth and the Light. "

Happy wrote on Feb 12, 2008 12:43 AM:

" What a wonderful fellowship. Isn't it refreshing to read of such simplicity. I love it! Keep it up!

"

Former Member wrote on Feb 12, 2008 2:53 AM:

" Many of the former members on here do not speak as outsiders, but rather of people who spent most of their lives attending meetings and conventions. We have first hand knowledge of the fellowship and its teachings. WE TOO once believed it was the only way and shared the same ZEAL some of the posters here have towards the fellowship. WE WERE HEARTY followers of the way and know of what we speak. --- To those looking in and are interested in the fellowship I say, GO TO MEETINGS and ask the workers hard questions. Ask about their beliefs of salvation. Ask about their acceptance of other Christians outside their fellowship. Ask about the Trinity. Ask about the fellowship's history. Ask about Justification and when they believe it occurs. Ask about meeting only in the homes. Ask about women only wearing skirts and dresses. Ask about if we are saved by FAITH. Ask about the role Grace plays in our salvation. Ask if we have to work for our salvation. Ask if they believe any other pastor in the world, outside of their ministry, is doing the will of God. Ask ASK ASK! The friends and workers are wonderful people, but their beliefs and teachings are rooted in legalism and half-truths. "

Liz wrote on Feb 12, 2008 6:57 AM:

" I was involved with the 2x2 church for 23 years. Lovely people, dedicated preachers, wholesome lifestyles. But know that it is an extremely legalistic way of life and I feel many folks mistake their adherence to a man made'system' for a belief in God. If you are thinking of becoming involved, do some research first. Spend time on the websites mentioned in these comments. "

Happy! wrote on Feb 12, 2008 7:47 AM:

" Thanks to the editor for a nice article about our ministry. We try to follow the teachings of Jesus. We are human and do make mistakes just like everyone else. All have sinned and come short. I'm thankful for parents that raised me with high standards. Some of my family no longer choose to go to these meetings. It's a very personal choice. I'm thankful to live in a country where we are free to make that choice. If God is truly leading and you are willing, He will help you make the right choices. Count me in! "

redwagon wrote on Feb 12, 2008 7:57 AM:

" Was born and raised here, and been in this way for 45 years. This is just another Christian denomination; no more or less. It brings peace, purpose and meaning to life, as any good Christian church does. There are differences in interpretation of scripture from mainstream Christianity. For example, most do not believe in the Trinity. This way is a bit more intense than most, because more time than usual is spent in worship and study, and because dress habits are meant to separate unto God a "peculiar people" (scriptural). This results naturally in exclusivity. But the followers are in general quite happy, Godly, and satisfied. "

Brad Lewis wrote on Feb 12, 2008 11:01 AM:

" I've looked up this religious organization and cannot find any tax records. All religious organizations that claim to be non-profit must file with the IRS for a EIN.

Does anyone have this groups EIN? "

To sojourner wrote on Feb 12, 2008 2:19 PM:

" You state that many of the "ex's" are divorced and remarried.

Many, myself included, are still a part of this fellowship, love our brethren and ministers. 10 years of many blessings IN this church!

This is a way of love, as described in the article. Remarriage after divorce is not an unforgiveable sin. Many of us were treated with cruelty and experienced deep grief through the divorce experience (by our then spouse). Neither our heavenly Father, nor those led by love, will add a burden to a child that is hurting. I've heard of those hurt in the past, but my experience is there has been a realization by those in this fellowship that God is compassionate and forgiving. When we've been 'hurt' by our brethren, we understand they just don't have the full understanding of the love and mercy of God. "

Georgia Ex member wrote on Feb 12, 2008 5:10 PM:

" I grew up in the "Christian Convention" faith. It is different in different parts of the country and is also more strict in different parts of the USA. This overzealous group makes religion an addiction. The first 3 months are the hardest once you decide to stop meetings. One of the hardest things to change is the way you think. As a 2x2er you are taught from the time you are tiny black and white thinking; as I have grown older though I realize that everything in life doesn't need a quick answer. And also its ok to live with mystery in your life. And yes virginia the Bible doesn't contain all the answers! "Christian Conventions" is definitely a christian sect but it also has some cultic characteristics as described by Robert Lifton("Releasing the Bonds" by Steve Hassan,p34). "

me wrote on Feb 12, 2008 5:25 PM:

" I don't understand the secrecy. What is the purpose of that? "

One of them wrote on Feb 12, 2008 5:43 PM:

" Having been in fellowship with these people over 7 states, I can truly say that you cannot find a better bunch of people. I agree that there are problems, and sometimes misunderstandings... but what group doesn't.

I think most would appreciate that divorce and remarriage is not the best. That some areas ask those who do, not to take part in services may not be the best either... but in the years gone by... most churches felt the same way. That they have held on to the beliefs from a more conservative era in no way makes them bad, wrong, or evil.

Some posting here have grown up in very strict disciplinarian homes, and rebelled. I wouldn't say that the group in any way condones harsh unkind discipline in any way. The true teachings are about LOVE and should be manifested in every way. I feel sorry for those who have not found that in their experience, because that in fact is what drew me to this fellowship. "

Outa here wrote on Feb 12, 2008 6:03 PM:

" I was raised in this "church" (cough, cult) and from a very young age I realized that this wasn't something that I wanted to belong to. The two ladies pictured above are sponges that only take and give nothing back except to criticize. I don't know them personally, but that is how most all the "workers" are. Go to their meetings if you like a continual funeral. That is the only way to describe their "meetings". If you want to give your money away to a cult and support whackos join Scientology at least they are better known. I don't miss any of the people that belong to this cult. Good luck to you if you join based on this article. Marketing is nothing but polishing up a turd, and this article is nothing but marketing. "

Michigan believer wrote on Feb 12, 2008 6:57 PM:

" To "Brad Lewis". This is not a "religious organization". There is no financial gain to anyone. Jesus established a ministry, a baptism, a way of love, a walk by faith. We are as the New Testament first century "church": a group of people, a family, a fellowship, unified by the power of God's love. We can find eachother in almost every country the world over. We are poor, middle class, multi-millionaires, all walks of life. It seems impossible to man, but it is God's miracle. This is why it takes faith to please God. You cannot prove Jesus' teachings by man's way, man's records, man's documentation. The proof is in the lives of joyful, peaceful, happy people, who, if truly of the Spirit, want the same for everyone else. No one can talk you into believing, it is by revelation to an honest heart, a seeking heart. The websites claiming to explain this faith and give it corny names are never going to be able to explain how this way of life is possible, but it is. Read the Bible with pure intent, and stop blogging on this matter. Endless debate with others will never reveal the Truth--God can. "

free at last wrote on Feb 12, 2008 7:20 PM:

" yes, I was a "member" for over 40 yrs, and fully believed this was the only way to salvation. Was I ever fooled. Constantly tried to please the "workers" in a "workers religion". Nothing about the what would Jesus do, but more like, what would the workers want?! Free at last to seek Christ as he truly is! "

BJS wrote on Feb 12, 2008 7:22 PM:

" Jesus's Church is not secretive, it is available to all who are truly seeking for the narrow path that Jesus told us about. He said that there would be few that found it, and He meant it!! "

Coming from a young heart... wrote on Feb 12, 2008 9:22 PM:

" I have been in the this truth for over a year now and nothing fills my soul greater than listening to the gospel. I have just turned 13 and deeply wish my friends and the members of my family could have the same joy that I have. For some of you that think is marketing, who found this story interesting? You are the one that clicked on it. For others, it saddens me to think that even though you knew the truth, you gave up. Yet you still can't find anything more right than this simple way. The people out there who read this, you may not think this is anything you would like to get invloved in, but coming from a young heart, God has set a path for us, and I intend to follow it. "

1/2 and 1/2 wrote on Feb 12, 2008 11:48 PM:

" okay i see the "former" members are out in force today....and i am reminded of
believe none of what you hear and only 1/2 of what you see. You'll find alot of "former" memebers are very bitter..
you'll also find that alot of them left when they were young so have only a confused memory of what life was like
in the church.

the best thing is to come to a mtg and see for yourself. having been someone that was not really exposed to this church until 12 and then having been in and out of the church for years, i have found this church to be the closest to the first century church than any other group.

So once again i find myself back in the fold and very happy i came back before it was too late. i've known Teri since
i was a young boy and she's a swell
gal and so is Muriel. I've learned this over a few decades folks and the school
of hard knocks...this is the way... "

Beware. From the UK wrote on Feb 13, 2008 1:19 AM:

" What these workers said are not true.
I still go to this church.

-The Church is RICH, money given secretly.
-In Europe Cars and house are provided
-Lots of the members are very rich, (like me)
-The members treat the workers like kings and queens with the best.

-They slander other churches.
-They don't teach about family matters.
-They preach the same thing over and over.
-Lots of cover ups that are not documented.
-They make up their own rules i.e no TV, wear long skirts, "

ex elder wrote on Feb 13, 2008 8:15 AM:

" Reading all the comments is more interesting than the article :). Now we're getting the "rest of the story". It seems that any Christian observer of these comments could easily see that the many ex-members struggle with issues of spiritual abuse and that members seem to be reciting the "party line". It's obvious these people's bottom line faith is in their group being the "only true way". "

sweet wrote on Feb 13, 2008 8:41 AM:

" Jesus started an itinerant ministry. It takes a calling and great faith. Muriel and Terri are itinerant ministers like the New Testament. Has it been continuously followed with an unbroken recorded history? Not that I'm aware of. Does it matter? No. Our salvation isn't in being born sinless and having a documented history of sinlessness. At some point in our lives we are convinced of our sin change our direction and get the cleansing of Jesus blood(not William Irvings). William Irving was amongst those who changed their way of thinking to line up with what Jesus started. How many "groups" on the earth today have an itinerant ministry like Jesus sent? None of these "negative" bloggers are following such. Does it matter? Yes. Study the Bible, Pray hard, let God reveal to you what you should do. I hope every christian church feels that their church is the
"right way". "right way" = "Jesus the way". p.s. might be good to read the parable of the "sower and the seed" in Matthew 13. "

Us Ex members wrote on Feb 13, 2008 2:28 PM:

" You all will just have to forgive all of us ex members. It is like getting hit with a slege hammer when you find out all of the discrepancies, lies, non-Christian doctrine, abuse, secrets, deceit........... When we write it down it comes out as bitterness. But most of us get over it....eventually.
50 years and out. "

TO YOU WHO HAVE LEFT wrote on Feb 13, 2008 3:19 PM:

" TO YOU WHO HAVE LEFT. Maybe God wanted you to leave.

John 6: 52 - 69
The Jews said, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" Then Jesus upset them even more by saying they would have to drink his blood. By then they may have been thinking, "He wants us to be like a vampire."
Jesus said, "...no man can come to me, except it were given unto him of my father.
From that time many of his disciples walked no more with him."
Jesus didn't make it any easier for the twelve, but Peter said, "thou hast the words of eternal life." They were there by faith.
God gives all of us seemingly logical reasons for leaving, because he wants only those to stay who are here by faith. I sometimes wonder if I measure up enough to be acceptable to God. But it is encouraging that he is still drawing, and I haven't used any of the seemingly logical reasons for leaving.
My husband and I were raised in other churches, but in seven months we will have been part of this fellowship for 60 years.

Marion K "

rejected wrote on Feb 13, 2008 4:07 PM:

" The people in this church are very loving, kind, warm...UNTIL you are no longer attending their church. The love is conditional. I thought I had made lifelong friendships, but when I left to go to another church over doctrinal issues,I found out quickly it was all about them validating each other in their beliefs, not about true love or friendship. "

To Marion wrote on Feb 13, 2008 4:43 PM:

" AS a sister in Christ, it saddens me to hear you say "I sometimes wonder if I measure up enough to be acceptable to God". This expresses to me that you have fear, doubt your salvation, and are in bondage to legalism; not understanding Grace. If we have FAITH in Jesus, we already know that we are not, and never will be righteous before God through our works. That is why we drink his blood, right? It is our only hope of righteousness. We are fed and nourished by the words of Jesus, which is the bread of life, not our works. Works bring honor to God and minister of God's grace to others, but does not save us.
To those who think we ex's are ALL unhappy, unfulfilled, and unsaved: I'm here to testify that I left meetings and now am joyfully attending another church, fellowshipping with joyful, spirit-filled Christians. No more bondage of legalism!

"

message of salvation wrote on Feb 13, 2008 5:40 PM:

" I too was surprised to see someone feels that they sometimes wonder if they measure up to be acceptable by God. They have been going to this church for 60 year and still have not got a basic understanding of salvation.

Does this church not preach the message of salvation throught the death and ressurection of Jesus.

No one measures up, our righteousness is as filthy rags. but that is why Jesus came. We are saved through His righteousness, not our own.

Sad really, that someone can attend a church and still believe that they have to measure up. Only one ever measured up and that was Jesus. He accepts us just as we are, filty rags and in sin. It is His righteousness that sayss, not our own.

This church seems to be lacking in good Bible teaching. "

Heather wrote on Feb 13, 2008 8:07 PM:

" I am 19 years old and so thankful to have a personal relationship with God! It's so sad to see all the bitterness and anger posted here. I chose to "join" this church of my own conviction and free will, and have never regretted it. No one is perfect, and people hurt others. We're all human. The only name we use is the name of Jesus. Our doctrine is what is written in the Bible, God's true word. We do not have a list of rules to follow. I am an adult, old enough to make choices for myself. I choose to wear skirts and to not cut my hair. I choose not to swear, because I think it's vulgar. I choose to not have a tv, go to the movie theater or rent movies, because I think it's unneccesary and a waste of money and precious time. I have many friends who believe the same as I do, and many friends who believe very differently. I love them all, and judge none of them for their choices, because I don't want to be judged for my choices. I have gone to other religious services, and have found nothing else that lines up with the Bible. To those who are interested in learning more, you can do the following: study the Bible, pray, and contact the writer of this article, who will be able to connect you with someone who can point you in the right direction. "

Kevin wrote on Feb 13, 2008 10:19 PM:

" The very first comment asked "is there any emphasis at all on reaching the lost,the sick,those in need?"

Yes. The ministers generally go into a new area each year and will usually pray very earnestly for guidance and direction to find any who are lost, sick or in need in that area. They desparately want to find any "lost sheep", as Jesus calls them, and when they do find one there is much rejoicing.

They are very interested in having contact with anybody who might be searching. Members sometimes ask them to visit family members or friends who have questions or might be interested in the bible. The ministers sometimes put an ad in the paper announcing "gospel meetings". They also give invitation cards to members to invite others. They often visit other churches to meet people (and sometimes have even been asked to deliver the sermon!). Sometimes they take public transportation just so they can meet people. They don't force religion, but are delighted when anyone asks.

The ministry also very strongly believes in going to countries where there aren't any members or even Christians. They often go door-to-door. They sometimes teach English just to meet people. They often stay in an area for years without getting converts, but believe strongly that they need to be there, even when discouraged. Some stayed in Commmunist countries for years, unable to preach but were a living testimony. "

Kevin wrote on Feb 13, 2008 10:38 PM:

" Our bible study tonight was on Romans 4, "faith and works". Our faith is counted as righteousness, not our works.

Verses 4 and 5 remind me of when I work for my employer... they become indebted to me, so they send me a paycheck. Sometimes we don't work because we depend on a pension or Social Security. We develop a sort of "faith" that the check will come each month. If we didn't have faith then we'd be frantically working so we could feed ourselves.

With God, our faith is strengthened each time He provides for us (spiritual provision). We are like a man sitting at home, just waiting on His provision. We wait on Him... He is a King to us, our Father, our provider.

Sometimes He asks us to do something, and that is "works". But He always provides, as long as we're waiting for His provision and having faith. If we're providing for ourselves then that's not faith, and He won't need to provide for us.

It's like a child in his parents' home. He doesn't do chores so he can "earn" his next meal. He gets his meals (spiritual bread), shelter (spiritual protection) & clothing (covered by Jesus' blood), and then when his parents ask him to help, he gladly chips in a little. "

saved by grace wrote on Feb 14, 2008 1:11 PM:

" To Marion's comment "I sometimes wonder if I measure up enough to be acceptable to God..." I know without a single doubt that I DO NOT measure up to be acceptable to God.. that is what saving grace is all about! No amount of works can make you acceptable to God, it is all filthy rags to him because of his holiness. But, Jesus, who was the perfect lamb, and God himself, willingly gave his life on the cross to clense us of our sin and make us acceptable in God's sight. This is God's gift of grace to us. I am clensed and saved, but I am still a sinner and need continual grace to make it each day. But I know without any hesitation that I will be in heaven one day, by God's grace alone. "Not by works, lest any man should boast, but by the grace of God we have been saved." "

re: wrote on Feb 14, 2008 7:50 PM:

" I wonder if the reason we don't flaunt ourselves is because of the type of flaming above...
But those who seek, find.
Mt:11:25: At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

And I wonder how many people read the "guidelines" link for posting comments

I never knew what "bitter" meant, before. Bitter is someone who knows God's will, and refuses it (opposite of Jn:13:17: If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.)
I suppose then that self demands they "justify" their decision

I also never knew that organized persecution of us, as a group, still existed. I guess some things never change. "

Grace wrote on Feb 14, 2008 11:52 PM:

" Why does this ministry pass judgment on other churches because they have buildings when they rent some of these same buildings to hold their meetings? Even Jesus taught in the synagogues. Why do they pass judgment on people who study in a seminary yet they send their children to secular schools? Why do they judge family members who don't come to their meetings and not reach out to them in love? Even Jesus ate with tax collectors and sinners when association with such persons would cause impurity in the eyes of the Pharisees. Jesus went to the centurion’s home who deemed himself unworthy and healed his servant. Jesus says do not judge others for as you judge, so will you be judged and the measure with which you measure will be measured unto you. Jesus also says everyone who asks, receives, and the one who seeks shall find and the one who knocks the door will be opened. He also tells us to love our enemies and to do good to those who hate you. There are loving, kind and warm people in all churches. If we cannot respect and love people who belong to other churches, how much of an example are we to the world? "

cjh wrote on Feb 15, 2008 9:26 AM:

" "Harden not your heart.." God's Way truly IS God's Way... not man's way. There's nothing out there in the religious world that could ever even begin to compare with the joy, peace, and contentment that comes with the lowly, simple Way that Jesus established. I personally have known one of these ladies for many years. What love and concern she shows to ALL -- whether in this fellowship or outside the fellowship! We can be so grateful for the willingness of some (like her) to give their lives as Jesus did... seeking lost souls (as well as encouraging those who have been "found"). Some, too, are "called to be saints"... and we're thankful for them, also, and thankful to be a part of them. "

anon wrote on Feb 15, 2008 4:41 PM:

" dont let it all sound so wonderful-- even cults can make things sound great-- and this group is borderline cult-- and I know this because I grew up in it and attended for more than 30 years

They wont tell you they think going through their ministry is the ONLY way to heaven-- and the whole religion is more legalistic than based on Jesus dieing on the cross.

I am already noticing a lot of the controversy in the posts-- which probably is the in and outies argueing

This is not a religion you would probably be happy your child joined
"

BB wrote on Feb 15, 2008 8:26 PM:

" I am so happy, so blessed, so in love with Jesus and so free. And yes, I am a member of this lovely family of God. I understand the heart of God in a measure. What I understand is that He does not accuse. He does not excuse evil behavior and foolish talk. There are those, as we read about, in the scripture that go out from us because they are not of us. We know them by their fruits and spirit. In any group of people, there will be those who are not willing to fit in, and I am not talking about fitting in to what man says, but being willing to submit to Jesus words. Ministers are human and make mistakes and I have heard them admit it. I don't follow man, and they don't want us to follow them. They stress that over and over again. Look to Jesus. In any group of people you will find those who are weak and only look to people. Then they are dissapointed and dissalusioned. Then they come back and bite, because they have not known the love of God. Cults follow one man. We follow Jesus and love those true ministers who allow God to use them for His mouthpiece. What better things do these folks who are angry have to offer? Bitterness? No thanks. "

BB wrote on Feb 15, 2008 8:49 PM:

" I love God with all my heart and He is very much alive to me. And yes I belong to this lovely family of God. There is alot of projection in the above comments. I am so sorry they have missed it, it is so beautiful. And what better do they have to offer? Bitterness? No thanks. "

getting older wrote on Feb 15, 2008 9:36 PM:

" Fearful of going to another church due to workers preaching against other churches some return to the group when they get older as the brainwashing for some never goes away. Many would never think of going to another church as they were taught growing up that this is the only true church.

The group is based on lies and deception. The sexual abuse in the group has largly been hidden until recently. The internet has meant that people are now able to tell their stories. Not to mention the homeosexuality and other sexual exploites amongst the workers. "

Just Very Thankful wrote on Feb 15, 2008 11:48 PM:

" I was teaching Sunday School and the lesson was on the New Testament Church ("two by two" by faith ministry and church in the home). Afterwards, a boy raised his hand and asked, "Why don't we do today what Jesus taught?" Wednesday night at Prayer Meeting, I asked the preacher. The next Sunday, I gave his answer:"We've never done it that way, we have no plans to do it and besides, what we're doing is working just fine." The same boy raised his hand again. "But you say, if you love Jesus, then you'll do what he says!" I replied,"That's right and never you forget it!" I couldn't forget it either and I began praying, "If your way on this earth that Jesus taught still exists, please lead me to it". I felt impressed to move from the West Coast to the Missouri Ozarks and I called to see if an opening existed in my field. "What a coincidence!" the Superintendent said ... "letter on my desk this morning ... Speech Therapist resigning to get married'. I took the position and we moved. As it turned out, a teacher in the school was part of this fellowship, as was her brother and his family who lived just a quarter block away. In time, we were invited to Gospel Meetings. The past 35 years have been the happiest years of my life! I'm so thankful for God's guidance and for His Grace and for answered prayer!!! "

Joy wrote on Feb 16, 2008 2:13 PM:

" I was brought up in a large Christian church group. We believe church is the people, not a building. We believe Jesus is alive and present to us all the time. If we truly long for a union with Jesus, we will base everything we do on His words and example. We do not ask if it is wrong to dress like this, or spend money like this or to spend time on this, rather does it bear witness to the values taught by Jesus. Because of God’s grace through the gift His Son we are saved. My life is transforming everyday being filled with the gifts of the Spirit. Jesus’ lesson is that love conquers the world. We need to ask ourselves everyday if our “expression of faith” is truly an expression of God’ love? If this is true, would we spend time judging people’s faith or be spending time giving expression to the light and love within us in order to share God’s divine life with others? "

Brenda wrote on Feb 16, 2008 2:14 PM:

" Quote from Sojourner

"Many of the ex's have divorced and remarried (with living spouses). That is against the New Testament covenant teachings according to the Lord Himself. Therefore, they have to be negative about anything that they can even if those who practice it do not see it that way.

None of the ex's have found a church that is better than this living way which is the body of Christ here on earth. Some have attached themselves to this or that for a time, and then wander off looking for a new group to fellowship with. A few say they have found this or that church that fits/meets their "requirements." Many remain "orphans" and do not go anywhere for fellowship. ""

end quote

I had to laugh at this whole comment-- I am an ex-- still married to the same man and very happily attending a christian church.
"

Thankful wrote on Feb 16, 2008 6:40 PM:

" I am thankful because I have known this way all my life. I made it my own early on and the years of walking with God have brought me to the place where He lives and moves and orders my life. It is the ultimate joy. It is really unspeakable. This is a family, and the true ministers amongst us are used by God to further his gospel on this earth. Ministers and friends alike who have left the way, simply did not have the born again experience. You can't walk away or drop that in which you live and move and have a special connection. Would you be curious to know what so many in the broad way are criticizing? Pray earnestly to God to find it and a way will be open to have contact. God hears the needy, honest cry. Come and see what I see. It is the ultimate. "

believer wrote on Feb 16, 2008 10:32 PM:

" I too, after professing in this group for 30 years have been attending a 'church' for many years. I am surpised as I meet up with those who were in meetings with me as I was growing up that many of those are also attending churches. Some as old as 60 have left and have been attending good churches for many years. More have left meetings and are attending churches than those who remain in the group.

Most of those who join 'meetings' have grown up in 'meetings' only staying because family are in it. Very few from the outside convert.

I am pleased to meet some who now believe that Jesus is the way and not their group. Some are even admitting they were never started by Jesus as the workers have preached for many years but by a man the same as other churches. "

the church wrote on Feb 16, 2008 10:40 PM:

" What those in this group do not seem to understand is that leaving this group is not leaving God.

A group of people meeting together to worship God is not God. God is God, and people are people. A group is not God. Many of those who leave the group are not leaving God. Just they choose to worship God in another fellowship.

God is not so small that he only accepts those who worship in a particular group and one that was started 100 years ago by a man. Christians have been on this earth since Jesus day. Christianity did not start 110 years ago when this group was started by William Irvine. Christians have been on earth throughout the centuries since Jesus day.

We are told there is one body, one bride. This is made up of all believers, not a certain church. "

honesty wrote on Feb 16, 2008 10:46 PM:

" I could not continue in this way when I found out the truth about the gorup who calls itself the truth.

We heard for years that our 'church' was started by Jesus and that we can trace our origin back to Jesus. I found out that this was a lie and that it was in fact started by a man in 1987. I could honestly not continue in a 'church' that lies about its history.

The group is based on a lie and this lie was told to our grandparents and great grandparents who professed in this group because they believed Jesus had started the group and not a man. They died not knowing that the group was started by a man the same as every other church.

Many are too afraid to leave the group because they are afraid of hurting family.
"

Young Christian wrote on Feb 17, 2008 5:07 AM:

" I still attend this church even after all of its flaws. I have read extensively all of the arguments on web sites. I had dropped out at one time because of them. However, I feel blessed by meetings in the homes on sunday morning and wednesday evening. Everyone in my area shares spiritual experiences that they have in their lives. They feed the soul. I also believe that Christians living in the teachings of Jesus can be saved, no matter what church they attend. Eventually each person has to obtain his or her own salvation. "

Mike wrote on Feb 17, 2008 11:49 AM:

" I was raised in this group, but have not been involved for a decade. Since then, I have moved to a different state, and have been surprised to learn that it's almost a completely different group in different parts of the USA. On the West coast, I found it to be far too strict for my personality. Where I now live has apparently been known for a long time as a "liberal" area for "The Truth(TM)."

California was a land of backstabbing phonies more interested in pleasing the workers with outward appearances. Mind, I have found people like that where I live now, but overall, the impression I get is a stronger focus on faith and less on rules. I've also met people from the East coast who have told me about the rules there -- rules that make California look liberal.

I have never been bitter, as some suggest. I've just learned that people are people. There are good people, there are bad people, and there are always going to be self-righteous pricks who spend their lives looking down their noses at others. There isn't much we can do about that.

To those who have left, I say be more forgiving of your fellow (flawed) humans. That includes workers. Those still in have either found a way to deal with it, or are simply blissfully unaware.

"

Peace wrote on Feb 17, 2008 12:40 PM:

" Jesus is who we should follow. He is the way. The ministers in our area our great at telling us to search the scriptures so we know what is right & allow the Holy Spirit to lead. The example of the life of Jesus is perfect but people are always going to be imperfect. Even though we are imperfect we can come together in fellowship & be encouraged that we are all striving to serve him the best we know how & one day we will be judged by him. "

honesty wrote on Feb 17, 2008 1:17 PM:

" I wrote above that the group was started by a man in 1987. I meant to write 1897. It was around 1896 - 7 that this group started. Not 2,000 years ago like our grandparents were told by workers.

"

Susanne wrote on Feb 17, 2008 1:24 PM:

" I love this way. I found after being lost for many years that Jesus was my Master. The simplicity, the love, the sincerity and kindness of the people I have met with have touched my heart forever. Our one goal is to be like Jesus. We strive to live like the Bible teaches, and pray to God to be like His Son. All of us fail miserably, but through God's grace and Christ's blood, we can be saved. I am so very thankful for the love and direction I found in this way that saved my soul from hell. "

Praying wrote on Feb 17, 2008 1:44 PM:

" Ijust wanted to say that I think this is the kindliest article on the fellowship I have ever seen. I am not going to meetings currently, but I am still moved by the love, humility and simplicity that I find there.Few family members profess now, but I remain close with those that are still going on. I have been told that I am always welcome to go to meetings. Ifind that beautiful. My life has been very hard outside the fellowship, but I am glad to know I may return anytime I like.I know there are ppl who are bitter, but it isnt my way to be so. Imade my choices in life and would never blame the Friends or Workers.I got sucked into the Ex Cult, but nowadays I prfer a softer approach. This is what I believe my God would have me do. "

praying wrote on Feb 17, 2008 1:58 PM:

" I must say I am glad to have read this article. I feel it was written respectfully and was very helpful.I was raised in the fellowship myself. I left for many years. I am often pondering whether I should return. I love the time spent with professing family, I love the peace of the meetings. I also know I dont like rules. But I think if I really understood grace,rules wouldnt matter.Some things I have heard in recent conventions of this fellowship speak clearly of grace.If any have a desire to check out the Meetings for themselves, dont be swayed by others bitterness! Just be openminded and openhearted.I know that is what I am trying to do...daily. "

Kate wrote on Feb 17, 2008 4:17 PM:

" There is a huge outreach, just not
advertised or boasted about. "

Appreciative.... wrote on Feb 17, 2008 7:14 PM:

" My parents heard this precious Gospel
nearly a century ago, after years of searching to find what they read in their bibles.. This "Truth" was brought to us by two ministers that gave their lives totally to bringing the "Good News".[ the Gospel means just that ] I am one of the ten children, we all embraced these teachings that paralleled
to what Jesus taught... and we wonder , " Where would we be today had
God not reached down to us in kindness, love and mercy .. and answered our parents prayers"....Good works are the "result" of salvation, not the "means" of salvation.. "

lack of Grace wrote on Feb 17, 2008 8:15 PM:

" Even if the workers are "coming around" and changing their approach, for many it is too little, too late. The F&w church have lost many Godly, gifted people to other denominations because of their legalism, and adherance to the "Living Witness Doctrine" which most people won't subscribe to now.

While growing up in the F&w, I heard so little about Grace. It is part of the Christian foundation, and without it they are building on sand. "

Heather wrote on Feb 17, 2008 9:33 PM:

" To "lack of Grace"...I don't understand your post. What does "F&w" stand for? What is the "Living Witness Doctrine?" What do you mean by "legalism?" "

Odd Picture? wrote on Feb 17, 2008 9:38 PM:

" Doesn't this picture with the article strike you as an odd pose for 2x2 workers? It's a picture they themselves would have atributed to "wordly" preachers and condemned. "

Tara wrote on Feb 17, 2008 10:13 PM:

" I also was raised in this religion. The people are in general a nice group of down to earth folks..however I did everything and followed the rules out of guilt and fear of "going to hell" not out of love and faith like how a real Christian should do things in life. I was never taught salvation by GRACE or free gift as in the bible, I was always under the impression that I had to earn my salvation by being a member of the Truth, (this church group) and by following all the rules, regulations, and keeping up appearances. Luckily I was able to get out of my small town and travel abroad where I met other church people from this group. I was shunned in Australia for wearing the color RED and for wearing jeans and lipgloss. I knew after that that this church was for me. If Gods only true people were going to judge me for the color of my coat or the length of my hair then it was definitely not for me.

After I got out I started to read the Bible without the influence of this church and understood about the free gift of salvation by Grace. Now I attend a Christian church in my city and I am happy with it. I don't have to feel that I am being judged by outside appearances. "

Re: Grace wrote on Feb 18, 2008 7:46 AM:

" "Saved by grace" is being taken out of context. Jesus never said "Just be the same as you always were, and thou shalt be saved."
He never said "after choosing to serve me you can sin as much as you want, since I'm wiping that away."
But in both the Old Testament and the New, service is equated with obedience, which is derived from faith. You can't love Jesus without serving him. "

Dale wrote on Feb 18, 2008 9:20 AM:

" Probably by now, most people have quit reading comments, but I feel so compelled to add my thoughts to such negative comments. To those of you reading that are not part of this wonderful fellowship, let me caution you that those who have posted derogatory comments are absolutely wrong. Jesus has always been uplifted. Whatever "rules" there are, are based on the teachings of Christ, and not man. These "ex" people have a organized effort to discourage the faithful in the church. A friend of mine who left told me they are encouraged to call believers and discourage them. Once my address published and they started sending me letters. For some reason, they feel a need to take others down with them, maybe so they'll feel justified for blaspheme. I feel so sorry for their misery, and pray for God's grace and mercy on their souls. I hate the word "cult". Just as any church, Baptist, Church of Christ, Methodist, Catholics....there are guidelines that members are expected to live by. And if they don't, most times they leave for another church. Having guidelines doesn't make us a cult. I have been in this way 40 yrs. The men and women messengers have been in my home countless times. My father was an elder in the church for over 50 yrs. Never once has money been mentioned. Never. It is not a factor in salvation. Jesus said to let your alms be done in secret. Please, come and taste that heisgood. "

Hope wrote on Feb 18, 2008 9:41 AM:

" Erickson spoke why her faith is best practiced quietly, humbly, and free of mortar and money. If this is true for her how can she call herself a minister? Did John the Baptist, Paul, Timothy, Peter, John, Stephen and other disciples of Jesus practice their faith quietly and humbly? In the Act of the Apostles the Holy Spirit came upon them and they boldly professed Jesus’ teachings. In Acts, Chap. 5 the apostles were imprisoned and the angel of the Lord opened the gates of prison and told them to go and speak to the people in the temple. And the chapter ends telling us that everyday, in the temple they kept right on teaching and preaching. Because of their boldness the word of God kept spreading and a great many priest were becoming obedient to the faith. The disciples of Jesus lived out the truth regardless of the consequences. If more Christians boldy lived out their faith and did not practice their faith quietly, wouldn’t we be ready to conquer the world for Him as stewards of His kingship? "

Nothing but love wrote on Feb 18, 2008 10:54 AM:

" I am a 3rd generation "member" of this church whose father has been an elder for many years. We all think for ourselves and some make different choices than others. I have a tv in my home, do not wear my hair up, and yet do not feel judged by anyone. I have felt nothing but love and acceptance here and believe with all my heart and soul that this way is God's way. I'm confused by those who've left comments about keeping the "rules". I have always been taught that we should'nt do something because someone says but because we pray for guidance and God has convicted us in our hearts. I left this way when I was in my teens and made horrible choices that caused a downward spiral into heroin & cocaine abuse, stealing and suicide attempts. Everytime I came in contact with anyone from this fellowship I was greeted with open arms and love. After some years I believe that they were the only people left that loved me! Thanks to the prayers of others and the mercy of God, I am now an "upstanding citizen" with a family and 10 years of sobriety under my belt. My point is, other posts talk of being ostrasized because of hair length and lipgloss but if the ministers and fellow members are so quick to pass judgement and shun people, how on earth did they miss me? "

to grace wrote on Feb 18, 2008 11:38 AM:

" The writer above is the one who has taken the meaning of Grace out of context. No one said that it means just continue the way you are or that you can just keep sining. I have never heard anyone say that except those in meeting. No one outside has ever said that. If you read Paul's words, he says that Grace does not give us a reason to keep sinning but when we do sin God's grace forgives that sin.

Those in meeting appear to have a wrong understanding of God's grace. Jesus came to forgive our sins and if we don't believe in God's grace to forgive our sins then He died in vain. We all sin, but we can recieve forgiveness for our sins because he died to forgive us.

Also someone mentioned giving alms in secret. In meetings money is not givne in secret. It is given into the hands of a worker and the workers knows exactly what you have given. That is not giving in secret. I like the way that people discretely put money into a bag or as some churches do a box at the door at church and no one knows what the other person gives.
"

believer wrote on Feb 18, 2008 11:47 AM:

" Someone above wrote that This is the way of God. my Bible tells me that Jesus is the way, not any group of people.

Also to disagree with this 'church' is not blasphemy as soemone wrote above. I have not seen on here anyone commit blasphemy against Jesus. Some seem to think that those who do not agree with the teachings of this group are committing blasphemy. It is another example of how those in the group have changed Jesus as the way to their group as being the way. "

wondering? wrote on Feb 18, 2008 2:23 PM:

" The members of this group do not own televisions and don't go to movies. How many of these members spend a great deal of time and money at sporting events? Is it not okay to spend a quiet evening watching a good movie or documentary with your family away from the loudness and often vulgar language you hear at sporting events? "

Curious wrote on Feb 18, 2008 4:33 PM:

" No television..Do members have internet? Movies, shows, news all available online. I am not being sarcastic I really would like to know. "

Tara wrote on Feb 18, 2008 7:24 PM:

" The members do go to movies and some of the families do have TVs, and almost all of the families have personal computers in their homes. Women are expected to wear long hair, no makeup or jewelry and dresses as a dress code or they consider it a form of modesty or do it for the standard of the "truth" (truth is the church name among members). Otherwise the members are just normal people in society that have regular jobs and go to schools and stuff.

The main thing that seperates this group from other home church groups in the world is that they believe they are the only "saved" people in the world and they are God's chosen people. Everyone outside of the group is headed to a lost eternity. They are the true saints and refer to themselves as the "elect" They believe their ministers are Gods only true sent ministers...and everyone outside of this church group is going to hell. You are either in or out, there is no in between. If you leave the group you are headed to a lost eternity. As much as I enjoyed the fellowship , I left the group because I did not believe all other Christians were going to a lost eternity and I did not believe it was the only way to heaven. Jesus is the way, the truth and the way. "

To Heather wrote on Feb 18, 2008 9:36 PM:

" Legalism is the method of leading people with rules or "laws" rather than letting the Spirit of God in their hearts guide their lives.

The "Living Witness Doctrine" is the title The founders of the "Truth" used to describe the belief that Eternal Life is possible only through the "workers" preaching the word of God, not other churches or ministers.

F&W is a common abbreviation for the "friends and workers" "

proud member wrote on Feb 19, 2008 4:18 AM:

" This Way is my family and I'd like to look at all of this junk written and just unplug my computer, but I feel a need to just say a little of my heart. I can't believe we're even talking about the same group. All I've known is the purest love and power. I know the 2 precious ladies in this article very well. You can't find the quality in these people anywhere but inside the will of God. If you want to know "the truth about the truth" experience it. Don't listen to others slanted experiences. The true result of this fellowship mixed with God-given faith is peace. I tried to live as far away from this as I could in college, but I missed the peace. I've experienced miracles and I love this Way more every day. "

To "Former Member" wrote on Feb 19, 2008 4:45 AM:

" ASK ASK ASK God. "

Interesting wrote on Feb 19, 2008 8:00 AM:

" The article was great and very informative. The comments are eye opening. I choose a personal relationship with God the comments only serve to reinforce my disrespect for all churches and groups. I think God is more interested in everyday choices than what group I am with. I find it interesting that any group thinks they have the select road salvation based on a book written by men, translated many times over by men that have used it for centruries as a way to control the masses. I believe in God and I know he cares more about how I treat people and live my life than if I have a TV or if I go to church every Sunday or if I give blank religion/church a percentage of my paycheck. "

Just as I am wrote on Feb 20, 2008 8:13 AM:

" I though we were supposed to get over teenage bitterness about how our parents raised us as adults???.... "

to tara wrote on Feb 20, 2008 8:23 AM:

" I am sorry that you are so misinformed. I have gone to meetings for 40 years and NEVER heard a minister or a saint refer to the fact that we are the only way. Because we are a thankful people (from being delivered from the bondage of men and their doctrines) we do express a gladness for being chosen by God. It doesn't nessecarily exclude others. I feel very sorry for those who deliberately lie about the workers and the way they live, making it sound like we are money hungry. You should feel what it is like to leave a good job, the security of your own home, and family to tell this gospel for free, bearing reproach, going from home to home in a borrowed car. You think people choose to do this for monetary reward??? As far as when this started? Does it resemble the New Testament ministry? The New Testament worship? The New Testament way of life? Yes it does and we are thankful we found it and were drawn by love and are kept by the grace of God! "

Thank you wrote on Feb 20, 2008 8:32 AM:

" Couple of things...For those who wrote these negative comments-do you sit at your computer all day just waiting for your chances to spew your bitterness?? I couldn't believe how fast you were on top of this, it seems like an awful waste of time. I wasn't going to write anything but last night when i was praying i felt moved to. I imagine some of you are some of the same that wrote negative internet posts several years ago?? Your websites/letters were a big part of the reason i quit going to meetings for almost five years. They were the most awful years of my life. I went from church to church to church and when i couldn't find anything even close to what Jesus taught i tried to quit believing in God all together and drown my sorrows in a whole lot of alcohol. Finally at the end of myself i prayed that if God would please show me what to do i would be willing. He brought me right back to this fellowship. I am so thankful for your negative comments i read so long ago. They took me away so I could see without any doubt that this fellowship is for me. Now i feel sorry for you.... I wish you'd all open your eyes to the love that is in the fold instead of feeding off each others bitterness. "

The way of God wrote on Feb 20, 2008 8:54 AM:

" I'm so shocked at all the bitter comments too! I'm confused as "The Truth" is not a religion or a church. It is just the words that Jesus spoke, and we are just trying to follow them the best we can. Certainly there are saints and servants alike who are not perfect, Jesus disciples were never perfect and one of his apostles betrayed him and another denied him! Certainly there are workers who have misused their authority and made rules that are not biblical, or gotten involved in things they shouldn't have or used gifts they were given in ways they shouldn't have but if all the workers had bank accounts and secret lives why are they still staying in our homes, borrowing a car to spend their days visiting old people, visiting about the gospel and their love for it with us for hours instead of taking time for themselves, praying desperately for us, and living out of suitcases???? It just doesn't add up:) Their lives are like a fish bowl. If anything is wrong and they are living in ways they shouldn't it is soon seen and dealt with. Likewise there are also saints who are not perfect. Me included. The vast majority of us however, are doing our best to try to be like Jesus. I love this fellowship!!!!! "

An ex-member wrote on Feb 20, 2008 9:02 AM:

" I have been out of this religion (and, yes, it is just another denomination) for about 15 years. I have a true relationship with my LORD as never before.

Currently my elderly parents live with us, and they still go to the meetings. It breaks my heart to hear them say that they aren't sure they have lived "good enough" to "make it". I have tried and tried to assure them that they have the assurance of Jesus blood because they believe in Him. I dread their last moments with this thought in their minds that has been put there by the "false religion" they believe is everyone else but them! "

lanae wrote on Feb 20, 2008 12:47 PM:

" I guess I am not surprised to read some of the scornful comments on here about this way. Some of the criticisms have a point, but to call this way a cult is far off base, as is the talk about brainwashing and legalism.
I have professed for 16 years, grew up going to meetings, even spent 3 years in the ministry. I didn't care to preach that this is the ONLY way - but I am sure that it is the right way for my soul. God will be the one who judge who all is worthy of salvation and who truly tried to live according to His word, and honor Jesus.
This is a simple way, yes, but not legalistic. Women are not forced to dress, do their hair a certain way. For myself, I feel that having long hair is more feminine. I don't always wear skirts; to meeting, yes, in my own home, no.
We do not have a TV, but no one has said we will be shunned if we choose to do that. There is plenty of liberty in this way for people to live according to their convictions - and some have different conviction regarding some things than others do.
We have computers, Internet, radio, we watch DVDs and listen to all sorts of music.
No - God started this way; man merely revived it. I prefer the simplicity and closeness to God and the fellowship I know in this way. My choice, not one made for me. "

ex elder wrote on Feb 20, 2008 1:41 PM:

" All I can say after reading all the posts of current members is WOW. I can't believe my eyes that you are trying to deny that workers and saints believe this is the only way to heaven. It's easy to say and believe it privately, but it doesn't play so well out in the public - does it? "

Faith is a good thing, wrote on Feb 20, 2008 1:57 PM:

" That being said I have one comment on the belief that this is the only way to heaven. I do believe that is being taught because my daughter has a delightful friend (they are grade school age) this little girls family happens to be a part of this faith (locally) My daughter had to ask her to stop telling her she was going to hell so they could still be friends. Kids say the darndest things. "

confused wrote on Feb 20, 2008 4:43 PM:

" what is so confusing to me is, that when I was a member, i would meet other members through the week and they would seem no different from "worldy" folks but come Sunday morning, they appeared to be the best Christians on earth. I see this in other religions now, so whats the difference? "

Brick wrote on Feb 20, 2008 5:09 PM:

" What is truly obvious here is that there is a complete misallignment between the current membership of this fellowship and those who have left. Furthermore, Marsh and Erickson seem completely out of touch with those who they minister to. So considering that, it is not unusual that their remarks would seem inflammatory. "

I believe... wrote on Feb 20, 2008 5:28 PM:

" I don't see any bitterness in the posts on here. I see debating, but no bitterness on either side. I see those still in meetings as upset as those out of meetings about what is being said.

Someone above said it is not a religion or church. A church is a group of people who meet together to worship God, if they don't meet to worship God then why do they meet? Jesus is coming for his bride, the church.

The writer above said women were not forced to wear a dress or wear their hair a certain way. I know many women who have been told they cannot wear pants by workers and also who have been told to put their hair up. I for one was told that. As for saying that no one has been shunned for having a tv, is again not correct. People have had the meeting removed from their home for having a tv.

If you like long hair they why not wear it long? Why put it up? Many women in meetings do not look feminine with their hair up. It looks shorter than if they had short hair out which at least covers their neck. "

TARA wrote on Feb 20, 2008 5:36 PM:

" I am sorry you think I am lying that the workers never taught me that this way was the only true way to heaven. I went to meetings weekly for about 22 years and I can definitely witness 100 percent honestly that I was taught from the platform and from gospel meetings in the USA and in Australia that this group was the only true way, God's true servants, and that those outside the faith or the truth were going to a lost eternity. I am 100 percent sure this is what I heard. I am an educated intelligent married adult, I would not write this if it was not what I was taught by the workers. In fact when I was baptized, I was asked if I believed this was the only true way before I could be baptized. I am sorry you disagree with my thoughts but this is what I was taught by many workers, elders and my own professing family.

I would not make this up..I have been to over 30 conventions and countless gospel and fellowship meetings. "

To Interesting wrote on Feb 20, 2008 6:39 PM:

" Your view of a true relationship with God is the way I think it should be.
We shouldn't allow a group to misguide us by limiting what we wear or whether or not we can watch TV.
In the 2x2s, women are made to wear their hair long and up in a bun, and wear only dresses or skirts, no make up, or jewelry either.
It is not true that women do it "of their own conviction and free will."
If a woman, especially a teenage girl, wears pants, make up and/or jewelry, she will definitely get a "workers talk." An older woman who does this will be shunned.
Around 2002-3, an elderly woman was told by Marilyn W., a worker in CA, that she would not take her money, (members give money donations to the workers) until the older lady got rid of her TV. "

to above comment wrote on Feb 20, 2008 10:14 PM:

" A false preacher would take money from anyone, no matter what kind of life they were living. :) food for thought "

Kevin wrote on Feb 20, 2008 10:32 PM:

" In response to controversy about women's dress, I think many who are disagreeing about what happened or didn't, are from different generations. My aunt (who is part of this faith) went to a public university in the 60's or 70's. The cafeteria rules were that women had to wear a skirt or dress or else they wouldn't be served. One time she just got done with a housekeeping job and was wearing jeans, had limited time before class, and needed a quick meal. They would not serve her a meal or let her in the cafeteria because she had pants on. This is a public university and is now one of the top party schools in the nation! The bible talks about modesty, and when people speak of harsh rules by the workers in that generation, you have to remember that all of society was resisting the change to girls wearing pants... now it's pretty normal, but it was considered by most people to be immodest at the time. Same reason why sister workers wear a Sari in India. The bible does teach modesty and many aspects of modesty are defined by culture and society. "

Reply to interesting wrote on Feb 20, 2008 10:37 PM:

" She wouldn't take her money?!!! WHat a terrible punishment. Especially for the money hungry workers. Hmm....why doesn't that make any sense to me? "

Quoting Paul wrote on Feb 20, 2008 11:03 PM:

" "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie". II Thes. 2:10, 11. My friends let this be a warning if we do not receive a very strong love for the Truth we have found; God could send us a delusion. These people have been given it from God and will fight for it as much as we fight for the Truth. He has done it to keep His kingdom clean. He knows best and will keep His flock in all purity. Did you hear about the man in Russia who found the Truth on the internet through the hate sites? God can even use that for good if one is an honest seeking soul. It's the same seed. Just depends on the soil whether it brings forth fruit: love, joy, peace or rocks and thorns. It's pretty obvious who has the peace. Truth will prevail no matter how much is against it. Evil will fail no matter how much is for it. "

by their fruit wrote on Feb 21, 2008 6:11 AM:

" To find out what kind of tree it is you look at the fruit, not the roots. King Josiah found a lost scroll of the law while he was repairing the temple and saw all they'd forgotten and restored the temple and worship back to how God wanted it to be done. A seed can be dormant and still be living. "

restoration wrote on Feb 21, 2008 7:13 AM:

" Quote - "To find out what kind of tree it is you look at the fruit, not the roots. King Josiah found a lost scroll of the law while he was repairing the temple and saw all they'd forgotten and restored the temple and worship back to how God wanted it to be done. A seed can be dormant and still be living."......If you do a bit of historical research you find that this is the exact mantra of all of the "restorationist" groups that sprung up in the 1800's. JWs, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, etal - and William Irvine - all thought their vision and mission was to restore the church. What the F&Ws don't recognize is that what they feel is the fruit of love, is truly conditional to membership in their group; IE, God so loved the world he gave his son to save it, but the F&W's conditional love is one of judgement and self righteousness. I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but when you condemn Christians to a lost eternity simply because they aren't members of your group there is no other conclusion to reach. "

Kevin wrote on Feb 21, 2008 2:52 PM:

" A couple people mentioned that they'd like to find this faith in their area. I tried to post my contact information, but apparently the newspaper won't approve comments with personal contact information for privacy reasons. Instead, you could e-mail the author of this article and she could probably give you more information. "

To Reply wrote on Feb 21, 2008 5:14 PM:

" Quote: "She wouldn't take her money?!!! WHat a terrible punishment. Especially for the money hungry workers. Hmm....why doesn't that make any sense to me? "

Of course it doesn't make sense. When someone is giving you a gift or donation, why would you give conditions? It is all about making people confirm to the unwritten rules of this religion.
"

I'm in... wrote on Feb 21, 2008 11:14 PM:

" count me as one of them. Actually, we do all think for ourselves. In life we will believe what we want to believe, sadly some in our group do happen to want to believe anything they are told...get real....the preacher is only human afterall and can at times say things that are not correct, for you to think otherwise you must have made them a god (tut tut). I see someone mentioned that verse "if it is of God it will stand" please note who said this, and it may explain why, over the years Gods will on earth has died out in man kind. The first case of this was in Noahs day and there have been many times in the OT, do not think it strange when you hear names like W Irvine. Who knows, it may even die out again one day only to discover a few who remain and re-start it again. Without money come and BUY - no tyre kickers please! "

lovejoy wrote on Feb 22, 2008 9:00 AM:

" I am shocked that "loving, christ"-filled people can speak so harshly of others who used to belong, referring to their "bitterness" without compasion or kindness. Clearly not all who profess love of Jesus bear his marks. Those that do prove by their words AND actions that they love the lost, those estranged, the sinner and their fellow worshippers, love for Christ's sake. "

lovejoy wrote on Feb 22, 2008 9:06 AM:

" I am shocked that such Christ filled people can speak so unkindly about the bitterness of those who do not share their views. Where is the love and compassion our Lord and Master taught us for others? "

deeper than ever! wrote on Feb 22, 2008 5:16 PM:

" This article and comments have confirmed my faith in this wonderful fellowship. If it wasn't so real, there would never be the passion-both for and against. It reminds me of the book of Acts..... "

to lovejoy wrote on Feb 22, 2008 5:30 PM:

" i don't see any unkindness, people sound more sad for those who have left than anything. Lost sheep are always welcomed with open arms back into the fold. I know that from my own experience. Not one person looked down on me or spoke unkindly and if they had it still would not have made me doubt that this fellowship is of God. People are never perfect, are you? "

true wrote on Feb 22, 2008 9:46 PM:

" Your right about the book of Acts... Chap.5:38 & 39. "

faith wrote on Feb 23, 2008 1:23 AM:

" deeper than ever wrote that "This article and comments have confirmed my faith in this wonderful fellowship."

This is so sad. People putting their faith in a fellowship. Our faith should be in none other than Jesus. It is Jesus that saves, not a fellowship. A fellowship is humans meeting together for a common cause. A fellwoship is made up of humans, to put our faith in humans will surely fail. "

A Friend wrote on Feb 23, 2008 5:00 PM:

" I was raised in this fellowship and have lived within the fellowship and without. I feel so strongly for those who have left the fellowship and felt persecuted. I would not contradict them for many of them tell stories of human failure that has gotten in the way of the Truth of God.

I have heard from the platform at conventions and that the Truth was the only way as long as I can remember. To refute this would be dishonest. However I honestly believe that there is a context that is being missed in these arguments. In conversation with both the workers and the friends I have found that we believe that the way that Jesus taught is the only true way. Because we believe this to be true we try to model our own personal service, our fellowship and the ministry to adhere his teachings. We fear the prospect of teachings of humans influencing our service and our Workers have always asked, even begged us to check their teachings with the Gospel of Jesus and the spirit of the Holy Ghost.

Because we believe that we are honestly seeking to follow the teachings of Jesus I feel that it can be stated that the foundations (the beginning) of our fellowship was the beginning of Christ's ministry. I have never heard any worker preach that there was a church lineage of any kind that could be traced.

I hope that we will continue to seek after God's Will "

Peace be with you wrote on Feb 23, 2008 7:24 PM:

" I agree with the last comment. We need to put our faith in Jesus and trust in Him for guidance and direction every day of our lives. If we are truly His disciples, we will learn to love one another no matter what expression of faith we belong to. I believe my Lord and Savior loves all His children and do not want us hurting one another. "

Irish ex-2x2 wrote on Feb 24, 2008 3:03 AM:

" An account of an Irish 2x2 family's experiences can be found by Googling "Tommie Gamble, the overseer for Ireland". Include the quotation marks. "

shannon wrote on Feb 24, 2008 1:50 PM:

" I know a few of families that are of this faith. I respect them and love them. They are wonderful people who are wonderful examples of how Christ wants us to be. There is always going to be those who are negative. Some people look for others weaknesses and then point them out for all to see. If you search hard enough and long enough you can find negatives in all churches. No church, because we are human and make mistakes/sin, is perfect. This is why our country is the way it is today. We point fingers instead of opening ourselves up to loving those who are different then us. "

Melissa wrote on Feb 24, 2008 3:49 PM:

" A friend writes “we believe that the way that Jesus taught is the only true way” Jesus taught in the synagogues and temples. He instructed his apostles after his death to wait for what the Father had promised. When they were filled with the Holy Spirit, they boldly proclaimed God's word in the temples and synagogues. Paul, after his conversion was filled with the Holy Spirit, and entered the synagogues and spoke in such a manner that a great multitude believed, both of the Jews and Greek. A friend also wrote “And we fear the prospect of teachings of humans influencing our service” The apostles were not filled with fear. Because of the apostles’ obedience many believed the good news about the kingdom of God and in the name of Jesus and were being baptized. Our Lord does not instill the spirit of fear in us but a spirit of love. Perfect love casts out fear. "

The Truth wrote on Feb 24, 2008 4:12 PM:

" After reading about some of the things that are taught in this faith group, and some of the things that are kept hidden, only confirms that we are all sinners in need of God's forgiveness. When we live out lives according Jesus's example, our hearts would be filled with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience bearing with one another and forgiving each other and above all we would be filled with love which is the perfect bond of unity. "

Missing ya'll wrote on Feb 24, 2008 7:21 PM:

" I am in the NAVY and have been encouraged to continue, 30+ yrs, by those in the various areas I have been stationed and visited. I have been saddened to hear of some, who have even written personal poems to me as their "sailor son" encouraging me to continue in life with Jesus, have become bitter and no longer have fellowship with me in HIM. I only hope that where ever you are that you will continue to search and pray and hopefully we will find rest in the end of life here on earth. I love the fellowship with HIM and those who have the same love. "

Advocating The Pursuit of Truth wrote on Feb 24, 2008 8:15 PM:

" To one who has any spiritual beliefs, God's word is, by definition, Truth. If it were not so, why would we feel it necessary to have a belief in anything beyond this life?

The word "truth" therefore implies that His word must be infallible and unchanging. Those who profess spiritual belief must then be ones who love the pursuit of Truth.

Those that count themselves as members of the church in question have an understanding (and associated personal conviction) that is colored and influenced by their varied life experiences. One might contrast this with many of the more traditional churches that strictly outline and enforce a specific interpretation of God's word.

With this in mind, those looking from the outside in will point out that those who profess belief in this way will live lives that will not be completely uniform, and certainly will not be perfect.

However, finding the truth, whether in a spiritual sense, or in any sense, takes time and effort. Each individual is at a different stage of life, a different level of understanding, and a different level of conviction...hopefully all the while changing to become more like what God intended.

If one is willing to look below the surface, one will find that what binds the members of this church together is neither fear, nor rules, nor money, but rather a common love of the pursuit of Truth.

Opposition of Truth can only make it all the more evident and desirable. "

reply to "deeper than ever" wrote on Feb 24, 2008 8:39 PM:

" To "Deeper than Ever". I agree. I remember a wise man saying that the problems we have in our faith is proof it is the way. Other churches problems are not enough money, etc. All of this has only given me more love and faith too. "

To "Restoration" wrote on Feb 24, 2008 8:45 PM:

" Umm...did you honestly interpret what I said for condemning Christians to hell? I would say only God is the judge and why would I be wasting my time condemning people to hell? I don't have that power. When Jesus was asked, "are there few that be saved?" His reply was "You strive to enter at the strait gate". I don't need to worry. I just know what I have peace with and where I've found life and the truest of all love. I'm just struggling along and I don't have time to be worrying about the salvation of others. That's their business. Jesus said to the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise." I believe that Jesus is closer to people than the ministry is. Jesus uses His ministry, but He's closer than that too. I trust Jesus to save. The ministry is to help bring people to Jesus. And it does a wonderful job of that. "

to reply wrote on Feb 24, 2008 8:52 PM:

" To reply:
The reason I said it doesn't make sense is because the assembly against this says the workers are only in it for the money (which is a JOKE) but then an example like this is given about a worker refusing money. "

not bitter wrote on Feb 24, 2008 11:01 PM:

" Because a person leaves your fellowship it does not mean they have become bitter. People leave for various reasons, many being that they find out that this church is not special but just another group started by a man, others leave because of doctrine which they feel does not line up with scripture. I see many in the group who are bitter towards those who leave. "

Curious wrote on Feb 25, 2008 7:46 AM:

" The article states there are no TVs in the homes but by all the responses here, there are many who have computers and access to the internet. That seems like a contradiction, the internet has more potential to negative influence than simply watching some TV. Hmmm "

Wondering wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:55 AM:

" To"Curious" your response is right on! My thoughts completely. As I was reading all the comments I to was thinking, no TVs but lots of computers which has more corruption, go figure. Having recently moved here to the area I would like to know were all the God loving people are, I have never seen so many unhappy people in my life. If you smile and say hello they look at you like there is something wrong with you. I can't believe that my Lord would treat other humans so cold. "

Question wrote on Feb 25, 2008 7:16 PM:

" Have any of the members of this church ever gone to another faith group and spent some time asking questions to honestly say they know what their beliefs are? I think they may be suprised that we all know, follow and love the same Jesus! "

Hmmm wrote on Feb 25, 2008 8:44 PM:

" The Bible says to keep the Seventh day holy, are they following the bible? "

true or false info wrote on Feb 26, 2008 11:03 AM:

" How can they say they have no buildings, no budget and no Bishops? That is totally false.

They have buildings. They build large dinning sheds and kitchens at convetions, large toilet blocks adn sleeping quarters. They have buildings as expensive if not more expensive than churches do.

They have a budget, budget for money for convention, for buildings at convention, trips for workers too fly around the world, money for laptops, mobile phones and other things. They ahve a big budget which is controlled by overseers.

They have bishops, they have elders or bishops as they call thme over meetings, they have workers such as the women in the photo, the have head workers, head of states and those at the top.

The heading of this article is completely false. "

Protect Those who are Growing to seek God wrote on Feb 26, 2008 11:40 AM:

" Many of the members have posted to this (you can tell when multiple, similar posts all follow each othe that it's one person posting many times)
The members ask why there are those of us who will warn people aginst this group... The reason why is that we know that a person who is growing to love and understand Christ is very vulnerable to the influences of anything that sounds good. When they learn the group is false it can actually lead them AWAY from God... and sometimes they can be lost forever for one experiance that can cause life scares! Life teaches us that we are not perfect and this group claims to have no established organization... if this is true then human nature tells us that it will be corupted from within. "

Restoration wrote on Feb 26, 2008 1:01 PM:

" Quote.." Umm...did you honestly interpret what I said for condemning Christians to hell?". Yes. After 30 years in the fellowship I know the code, the double entendre, all too well. For example you used the new favorite in your response to me..."I'm not the judge". The proper response currently to the charge that your fellowship believes all other Christians are going to hell is to say "it's not my place to judge". The fact is that the person does indeed judge people to hell, but in the current environment understands how socially repulsive such an open admittance would be; hence the newly patented "I'm not the judge" response. Again, I find it amazing that the membership is so uniformly trying to deny such a central belief of the fellowship. Very disingenious. "

observer wrote on Feb 26, 2008 1:10 PM:

" Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to decieve. "

Kevin wrote on Feb 26, 2008 3:22 PM:

" Yes, many of us don't have a TV. Some do. Many of us have computers and internet. Some don't.

I personally agree that the internet is probably just as addictive (and maybe more so) than TV. It also seems easier to feed some vices, easier to waste time, etc. because everything is at your fingertips on a computer.

I personally would not be offended if someone suggested to get rid of TV or internet. There are many people out there who don't even have a religious faith who don't like TV... ever seen the bumper sticker "Kill your TV?" Good for them. That doesn't offend me. As a child, we often felt left out because we didn't have a TV growing up... but I look back and think, wow, I probably had a better childhood because of that.

There have been a few periods of time in the last several years when I didn't have a computer at home... and those were probably the best times for me, spiritually speaking, because I spent more time reading and praying than reading stuff on the internet. The Bible is absolutely the best thing to read... all the knowledge in all the world will never compare to the wisdom and power of the Bible.

Just like anything... some people have addictive personalities and some people don't. Some people have good self-discipline, and some people don't. To each his own. "

just asking wrote on Feb 26, 2008 4:15 PM:

" "The minestry is to help bring people to Jesus. And it does a wonderful job of that." Does that include the minestries of the Catholic, Baptist, Methodist all of the ministers that the workers have called false prophets for years? The ministers and churches that have been called false and mocked by the old workers for so many years at convention? You used the term "his ministry" Is his ministry just the workers or does that include other ministers? Come on just a straight answer not a 2x2 2 step. "

Shine wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:18 PM:

" Shine your light down on me. Never want to stick around till the very last dance. Someitme s i stumble, take a hard fall. Shine your light, down on me. LIft me up so I can see. Shien your light when you're gone. Give me the strength to carry on. Carry on. Thought I saw him walking by the side of the road. Maybe trying to walk on the side of the road. Just hope you know if I get lost oh shine your light down on me. LIft me up so I can see. "

thankful wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:27 PM:

" I just want to thank my dear friends for inspiring me and for your soft spirit. I am so thankful for my relationship with my Father. Thank you for your support. I just want to grow closer and closer to Him. I want to allow Him to be my whole life. I want to let go of everything so I can love Him with all my heart, soul, mind and strength. I feel so united with all of my brethren. Through the night of doubt and sorrow onward goes the pilgrim band. Singing songs of expectation marching to the promised land. Clear b4 us thru the darkness gleams and burns the guiding Light. Brother clasps the hand of brother , stepping fearless through the night. One the light of God's own presence o'er His ransomed people shed, chasing far the gloom and terror, brightening all the path we tread. One the object of our journey, one the faith which never tires. One the earnest, looking forward, one the hope our God inspires. One the strain that lips of thousands lift as from the heart of one. One the conflict, one the peril, one the march in God begun. One the gladness of rejoicing on the far eternal shore. Where the one almighty Father reigns in love forevermore. Love is the Kingdom's Banner. Onward to Victory go. "

REPETITIOUS?? wrote on Feb 26, 2008 10:15 PM:

" All THESE COMMENTS ARE STARTING TO SOUND THE SAME. HERE IS MY RUN-DOWN O' THE WHOLE THING. THOSE OF US WHO ARE IN IT ARE HAPPY, LEAVE US ALONE!!! THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE LEFT SOUND MISERABLE, GET SOME HELP!!! THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS ARE CONFUSED-DON'T BLAME YOU:) :) "

Phew wrote on Feb 27, 2008 11:22 AM:

" 2X2, 3HO American Sikh, Catholics, Children of God/The Family, Christian Branch Davidians, Devadasi, Hare Krishna, Jehovah's Witnesses,Latter Day Church of Christ/Kingston Cult, Mormon/ LDS, Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God, Pentacostal, Sai Baba, Sangomas, Scientology, Sisters, The Straights, Sullivanianism, Twelve Tribes/Messianic Community/The New Apostolic Order in Messiah have all, undisputedly engaged in cult-like behaviors including harboring pedophiles, condoning heinous behavior in their zeal to hide the perpetrators. No one cult is any better than the next, people. Leave them alone with their illnesses until they affect you directly. "

to REPETITIOUS wrote on Feb 27, 2008 5:31 PM:

" To REPETITIOUS?? I do not think alot of the questions posed are REPETITIOUS. I have not seen any answers to many of the questions asked. Maybe you could open your heart to answer some so others may know what you truly believe. "

to REPETITIOUS?? wrote on Feb 27, 2008 5:44 PM:

" I do not think many of the questions are REPETITIOUS?? Maybe you could find it in your heart to answer some questions so the people who ask will know what you believe. This is a wonderful chance for you to witness Jesus’ love. I think many people are asking because of the article and are not trying to be confrontational. Why would anyone who believes their group is full of love and acceptance tell others to leave them alone. Many churches have derogatory statements made about them over the years. I believe Jesus would want us to continue to reach out to people who are estranged from fellowship and lovingly invite them into his fold. Please give it a try. "

Please wrote on Feb 27, 2008 9:17 PM:

To to repititious wrote on Feb 27, 2008 9:37 PM:

" Ask away. "

A friend in Jesus wrote on Feb 28, 2008 6:14 PM:

" Thank you very much. I honestly believe Satan wants divisions in Christian fellowship groups to keep us divided. Maybe the reason for different faith groups is because God knows we are all so different and He will use as many avenues as possible to give us a chance in eternity with Him In Timothy Chap 2, verse 11 & 12 says Let a woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to upsurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. In Corinthians Chap 11, verse 5& 6 says “But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head, fo that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn:but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. My first question is are women suppose to be ministers & are women suppose to keep their head covered? Thank you for your time. "

Questions?? wrote on Feb 28, 2008 9:41 PM:

" I wrote that comment called repetitious (did i even spell that right??) I've very sorry i wrote it. i was angry after reading all the bad things people have written about something i so love and see the joy of. It's frustrating because this is so precious to me.
I don't see very many questions tho I see a lot of statements from people who have left who think because a few people have messed up that we as a whole are not trying to live what Jesus taught. I think the responses would be very favorable if they were true questions and not negative comments. Again, very sorry for the wrong spirit. "

Ben "A Friend" wrote on Feb 28, 2008 10:32 PM:

" A comment stated that we have a new reply to questions about the salvation of others. This is not a stock reply! Our human nature would love to prove our righteousness at the exclusivity of others. However Jesus taught, and the Spirit of God moves us, to openly accept others who have an honest love for his will.

The miracle of spiritual fellowship that we experience does not come from our association with each other, it comes from the love of God growing within each individual heart. We understand that the source of our salvation is not our fellowship meetings, or even the gospel meetings (though both are sweet!) but through constantly seeking to nurture our individual relationships with our Heavenly Father in the place of prayer and through his Word.

Other comments have stated that we believe we have to work/follow rules to get to Heaven. This implies that we believe in our own strength as our salvation.

It is true that every heart will struggle, greatly, in the battle against our human nature, negative influences in this world and adversaries of God.
This is work! However, it is only through the Grace and mercy of God that we can gain the strength to do the only thing we have the power to do, that is to fully submit to his will. Full submission brings the sweetness of the Love of God into our hearts. He will provide all that is necessary for our salvation.

We Trust in him! "

II Cor. 6 wrote on Feb 29, 2008 9:54 AM:

" "As deceivers and yet true. As unknown, yet well known. As poor, yet making many rich. As having nothing yet possessing all things." (Describing the ministry in II Cor. 6 "

Reply to "A friend in Jesus" wrote on Feb 29, 2008 9:59 AM:

" One thing that helps is to understand the background of the text. The ones Paul was writing to were having fellowship where the women would interrupt and argue in the middle of it. He encouraged that they ask at home afterwards so as not to disrupt the meeting. It says for ALL to have a part. I am a minister in this fellowship and I am a woman. From my own experience, yes, women do have a part in the ministry. God called me and kept calling me. It wasn't my idea of how to spend my life, but I have grown to love it. I know how much help I've gotten from other women in the ministry and no one can tell me that women are not supposed to teach, because if it was wrong God wouldn't bless their words the way He does.
As far as women keeping their head covered, we believe that's long hair being a covering. "

believer wrote on Feb 29, 2008 3:37 PM:

" Jesus did not call women into the ministry. Where did it say that Paul told women to keep quiet because they were arguing and interupting? It tells women to keep silent, nothing about what you say. Women were always to remain in submission to men. A female worker who takes the place of a male elder when she attends a Sunday morning meeting is taking authority over a man.

Wearing hair up is not using hair as a covering. If hair was worn long (ie as a covering like Paul said then I can accept that but I cannot accept that women say that they wear their hair long but instead wear it up. Wearing it up covers no more of the woman's body than having it cut.

I am very happy to see a worker contribute on here. Blessings "

A friend in Jesus wrote on Feb 29, 2008 5:15 PM:

" I agree that it helps to understand the background of the text and why it was written. You made a choice to become a minister and give of your time to share His Word. What a wonderful calling! I believe that when we dedicate our lives to God, it means we live all areas of our life with the values, attitudes and priorities Jesus modeled and taught. What do you believe about grace? Do you think when we die we go directly to heaven or do the dead rise in Christ on His Second Coming? "

women ministers wrote on Feb 29, 2008 5:57 PM:

" The resurrection message came from Jesus to two women to go and tell the story. Jesus never said anything about women not being allowed in the ministry. The sex of a person did not seem to be important to Jesus-we are all living souls. If you've ever been to Greece you would know why Paul wrote that about women to that church :) "

believer wrote on Feb 29, 2008 9:25 PM:

" Anyone can tell the story of Jesus. Talking to someone about Jesus is not the same as preaching to a group of people and having authority over them. I am sure that Mary was in authority over the men in the house, unlike women workers who take the lead in the meeting over the men.

In fact in the New Testament church it became a priesthood of believers. It said the believers went every where preaching the word. But in the church iot was always the men who were the 'workers' and elders etc.

yes I have lived in many countries in that part of the world and know women are in subjection to the men. Only men are in ministry in the orthodox church in those parts of the world just like it has always been. Women were always helpers in the Gospel not leaders. "

Television wrote on Feb 29, 2008 10:23 PM:

" i wanted to mention a few things about television. The bible is pretty clear on the responsibility of the ministers to warn people if they are partaking in things that are harming them spiritually. While tv was obviously never a problem in those days there are several things mentioned that support that it's not exactly healthy. For example. If we are not supposed to lie, commit adultry/fornication, steal, hate, kill, murder etc...why would God think it ok for us to watch it every day?? I find it hard to believe that very many people could have a tv and never watch anything but the weather...Also, those who are trying to justify having a tv because of computers...uh?? Computers can for sure be way worse than tv but they are a tool also, hopefully most are using them that way. Anyway, the workers are giving their lives to try to help us get to heaven. Of course they want to help us to see when there is something in our home or in our lives that is hindering us. I'm so thankful my parents chose not to have a tv. When I moved out i had one for six years. During that time i quit reading and praying (gradually) then quit going to meetings. It's only by the grace of God that he helped me get back. "

happy wrote on Feb 29, 2008 10:26 PM:

" I love this fellowship. The fellowship with God, his Son, the Holy Spirit, and the honest sincere people I consider my family. Thank you "

to believer wrote on Mar 1, 2008 8:15 AM:

" This fellowship that we follow, that Jesus taught is not about authority and who has power (that is false religion). This works by love. The ones you say are "in authority" are humble, and they are homeless. If you read your bible you will read about women doing the same things the women in the ministry are doing now. When Paul wrote to the women to not speak in the church he was writing to husbands and wives, wives who were interrupting their husbands in the church. The reason so many churches did not allow women to be in the ministry is probably because they like many people have a problem with women in as you say "authority." It is called pride. Jesus never said one word about women being less than men in ANY way. He did however say a lot about pride. When you see the love in this you'll understand. "

curious wrote on Mar 1, 2008 1:19 PM:

" Do you believe people in other faiths that believe in Jesus will share in eternal life? "

to believer wrote on Mar 1, 2008 1:40 PM:

" When Jesus called unto him his 12 disciples they were all men. Why do you think he chose men over woman? "

to believer wrote on Mar 1, 2008 6:14 PM:

" Do you encourage your members to witness or teach? If someone was interested in learning more about the new testament and why and for whom they were written, would your members be allowed to go to a bible college? Wouldn't a bible college be better than other colleges where they don't teach about Jesus? "

to curious wrote on Mar 1, 2008 7:42 PM:

" I believe that anyone who is honestly trying to serve God the way Jesus taught will share eternal life. "

to, to believer wrote on Mar 1, 2008 8:54 PM:

" The first twelve apostles were also all Jewish. "

Ben "A Friend" to Curious wrote on Mar 1, 2008 11:00 PM:

" Jesus said "Other sheep I have who are not of this fold..."

My wife and I are so thankful for the help that two wonderful sisters in Utah gave, helping us understand the truth of God in Jesus.

I believe that the workers are the chosen earthly vessels whom God has called to share his message of hope with the world. As humans they are not perfect, they are prone to make mistakes. And, as humans they are called in their imperfection to do a work for our Heavenly Father.

Our workers do not bring a message of a "Faith/Church." They bring a message from God that speaks of hope through the sacrifice and love of his son Jesus. This message teaches us that we can only
enter into the salvation of God through his son Jesus, not that we are entering into the "Salvation of the Workers."

They are not offering membership to a "Faith." They are hoping simply to open a door through which honest, seeking souls can find the peace and reassurance that a loving relationship with the Heavenly Father can bring.

As imperfect men and women the Workers show us that we can be loved by God, and useful to him even though we, ourselves, are not perfect. They are an example to us of how fulfilling a service to our Heavenly Father can be.

They live, not to add names to a church register, but to help the world see the truth in Jesus. "

believer wrote on Mar 2, 2008 2:05 PM:

" Ben wrote: They are not offering a membership to a faith.

When you profess you are offering membership to your group. As worker do not accept anyone who has 'professed'or been baptised in another church one must acknowledge believing in your faith by professing and being baptised in your faith, as you call it.

if membership in your group is not important then you would not be required to stand to your feet in your meetings. If they believed that professing is acknowledging your faith in Jesus then your would not be required to profess again in your group as many have already confessed faith in Jesus in another group. "

Another question wrote on Mar 3, 2008 7:08 PM:

" The bible says we need one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. When people come into our faith group from another christian church they are not required to be baptised. Does your group require people to be baptised again? "

thank you wrote on Mar 3, 2008 7:10 PM:

" The bible say Thou shall not kill. What is your believers or faith's stand on abortion? "

To Muriel or Terri wrote on Mar 4, 2008 5:46 PM:

" When Jesus went out and taught people, he was doing his father's work and was not quiet or humble. If you are following Jesus' example wouldn't you be more outspoken in your ministry? "

To "another question" wrote on Mar 4, 2008 10:38 PM:

" There are no rules as to requiring someone to take the step of baptism. If someone feels the need to be baptized or "re baptized" then they are welcome at any time to talk to one of the ministers they know and take that step. "

to "thank you" wrote on Mar 4, 2008 10:43 PM:

" We don't have any set of rules or paperwork telling us what we believe, other than the bible. So, if the bible says "thou shalt not kill" then i think that makes if clear. "

you c wrote on Mar 5, 2008 12:40 PM:

" Look at the comments above and you will see that this group thinks they work out their salvation. That is what makes them pseudo-Christians. Christians know that salvation comes from God as a gift. Works is not the way it is accepted. So salvation comes before works. Works are a result of responding to God and accepting his gift, and repenting of evil works. Then we can work for God and that will be rewarded in heaven. Salvation is not a reward. Get it? "

christianity 101 wrote on Mar 5, 2008 2:40 PM:

" Is it sinking in?

JESUS PAID THE PRICE. The workers don't, can't, won't be. They are only confusing people. This methodology started as an experiment. You can read John Long's testimony on this in his journals on-line. He was one of wily Willie's first companions. Please.... "

you c 2 wrote on Mar 5, 2008 8:35 PM:

" Salvation is a gift from God. When we give a gift to someone we do not put conditions on it. God want us to share in eternal life with him and that is why he sent his son, Jesus. We cannot earn it. As a result of accepting God's gift , we try to become more like Jesus. "

you don't c wrote on Mar 5, 2008 10:20 PM:

" i think you are twisting scriptures. when you do that everything does seem confusing. It's very clear in both the old and new testaments that the blood of Jesus only brings us up to zero as far as our debt to God. We are saved by the blood of Christ and his life, his example and by our following that. Read & pray and God will give you that revelation-i promise. "

u think wrote on Mar 6, 2008 2:47 PM:

" "Worldwide fellowship needs no building, no budget, no bishops"

...and the results are evident in the lack of sound doctrine. "

Peter Piper wrote on Mar 6, 2008 3:59 PM:

" The role of religion in modern society is a matter needing careful consideration.If a religon helps inculcate and perpetuates a strong ethical code among its members that is in harmony with the larger surrounding society that is a good outcome.But a fine line must be walked and all religions need to be careful in walking it. "

lavender wrote on Mar 6, 2008 4:59 PM:

" those of you who posted on March 5 & 6 are forgetting something. There are indeed conditions for forgiveness. Yes, Jesus paid the price. Yes, salvation is a gift. But, we still need forgiveness and the condition for forgiveness is repentance. So you just cannot assume that you may live however you want and that you are saved anyway. Revelations tells us that indeed your name can be blotted out of the book even after it was written there. Therefore it is necessary to live and preach and worship as Jesus taught. What he taught during his life is just as important; if all we needed was his blood, that could have been accomplished by his death as an infant.
Also, "u think" writes that 'there is a lack of sound doctrine'......Well, the doctrine is the New Testament so that is what you are criticizing. This Way is not man's doctrine. You are criticizing Jesus himself. "

Proclaim! wrote on Mar 6, 2008 9:21 PM:

" If your own ministers say is is best to practice their faith quietly and humbly, they are not following what Jesus taught. Jesus spoke with authority and did not practice his faith quietly and humbly. He was not afraid to speak out in the temple or synagogues. Are you not hiding your talent? IS this the way Jesus taught. Many true missionaries have been killed for sharing the gospel of Jesus. They were not afaraid to go out and boldly proclaim the gospel as Jesus and his disciples did. "

we do wrote on Mar 7, 2008 9:24 AM:

" We do proclaim the gospel story. The difference is we ARE supposed to be humble, the bible teaches that very clearly. So, quietly and humbly is talking about the fact that we do not try to make a name for OURSELVES in this world and brag about our good works. We do it for God. Our people walk like Jesus walked and their lives proclaim the gospel story very clearly. Jesus was rejected by men, and he was humble (that is also in your bible) maybe you should read it before you post. "

a believer wrote on Mar 7, 2008 11:30 AM:

" Humble people do not go trying to convince people that they are humble.

Thousands followed and believed in Jesus. It says he found favor with all men. He was outspoken and even spoke out against the rulers and leaders of his day.

He rebuked the pharasies for appearing to be religious by dressing religious.

Jesus was rejected by some people, it was those he spoke out against, the rulers of the day, not the general public. Jesus certainly made a name for himself in the world and has made a name for himself for 2,000 years following his life.

"

Logic wrote on Mar 7, 2008 8:13 PM:

" I’m grateful to have walked in this way of Jesus since I was young. I did enjoy reading many of the comments here…I couldn’t help but notice though, that some detractors attempt to depict our lay people as “worshipping the ministry” instead of Christ, while others accuse our ministry of being “too humble”, even asserting that Jesus “made a name for himself…hmmm, it doesn’t seem like any historians of Jesus’ day thought so, in fact, there’s so little written about Jesus that some people even claim he was a myth! That being said, our ministers have often been invited to speak in church buildings and other places, I’ve even heard of one who was invited to preach from on top of a volkswagon with a loudspeaker. They are the most selfless, but also the most courageous people on earth. Some accuse our ministry of being “legalistic” while others decry our lack of formal doctrine. Hmmm again. 2 Cor 3:6 comes to mind. One even accused us of trying to “work out our own salvation”, pointing to this as proof we were “pseudo Christians”—I assume he meant it was wrong for Paul to say this? (Phil 2:12) "

Logic wrote on Mar 7, 2008 8:14 PM:

" Some say we don’t believe in the Trinity. I’ve been in this way for nearly 35 years and I’m completely baffled by this accusation. The word "trinity" is a term used to denote the Christian doctrine that “God exists as a unity of three: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of the persons is distinct from the other, yet identical in essence.” I’m confident there is nothing controversial about this definition. Of course we believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit! Fortunately, the unity doesn’t just stop there, though. (John 17:11, 21-22) I feel sad that some of the detractors who were once in this way felt that all they had to do was “go to church” and “believe that our ministry existed in a continuous way (like Catholicism) since Jesus’ day”, as if they belonged to some prestigious club whose lineage gave them special merit. (Jn 8:39) One detractor lumped us as part of a cult, along with “Catholics,…Pentacostals,…, and Branch Davidians…” Hmmm, no comment here, other than I guess the Catholics’ long history isn’t enough to get them out of the “cult” box. It is true that some of us are given wrong ideas and we have a bit more shallow understanding than others, but we all grow in this way, I see it in myself and in others, and we know it is a beautiful thing to see. "

Child of God wrote on Mar 7, 2008 8:18 PM:

" Matt 4 23-25 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their Synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all in the manner of disease and sickness among the people. And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils and those which were lunatic, and those that had palsy, and healed them. And there followed great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judea, and from beyond Jordan. Jesus was not afraid to speak out, if he had lived his life humbly and quietly many would not come to know him and come to see and believe in him. When Jesus spoke about being humble he was talking about pride. Is a candle brought be put under a bushel, or under a bed? And not to be set on a candlestick? For there is nothing hid which shall not be manifested, neither was anything kept secret, but that it should come abroad. If any man has ears to hear, let him hear. read on Mark Ch4. Any faith group who believes they have all the answers and are the only ones that live their lives as Jesus commanded are full of pride and are deceiving themselves. Do you pass letters or teach of your being the only righteous ones who live their lives according to Jesus? Then you are no "

the whole truth wrote on Mar 7, 2008 10:33 PM:

" Your very right, Jesus did make a name for himself in this world. That does not mean that we should make a name for ourselves. Jesus finding favor with all men means that no one could find fault with his life, that he was perfect. He was hated by most of the religious world at that time. That is why he was crucified, at the hand of the religious leaders, because he was telling people they had to do more than just say they were religious, they had to live it. "

satisfied wrote on Mar 7, 2008 10:46 PM:

" I think it's important to point out that this isn't a "religion" as much as it is a "family" or "living way" as it is often mentioned. I think we all agree that our salvation depends on getting to know our creator now. Being a part of this family has been an incalculable support to me in this without imposing the burdens of church traditions, buildings, hierarchy, ect ect. If someone is searching for a safe place to have fellowship with those who have found a deeper meaning in the words of Jesus through following in his footsteps, this is it pure and simple. I also thought the article was very well written - I've been a part of this fellowship for 15 years now and I'm not sure if I could've said it any better! "

food for thought wrote on Mar 7, 2008 11:04 PM:

"
He who forgives ends the quarrel.

-African proverb
"

An interesting read wrote on Mar 7, 2008 11:27 PM:

" I found this book to an interesting read and confirms what people have written in about. http://www.2x2church.com/ I think the members should examine what truths they hold fast to. "

Question wrote on Mar 8, 2008 12:04 AM:

" Do you in your ministry visit men and women in prison, feed the hungry, clothe the poor, shelter the homeless visit the sick and I am talking about those in your faith as well as those outside of your faith? "

buildings wrote on Mar 8, 2008 12:48 AM:

" Why do you not have buildings for your meetings and bible studies? In Mark Chap11 vs15-17 "And they come to Jersusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold the doves; and would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple "It is not written,"My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made in into a den of thieves." Jesus taught many times himself in the temple. In Luke Ch 2 vs 46 "And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple sitting in the midst of doctors both hearing them and asking them questions. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. And they saw him and were amazed: and his mother said unto him,Son, why hast thou dealt with us? behold, thy father and I sought thee sorrowing. And he said unto them,how is it that ye sought me?wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? LkCh4 VS16 And he came to Nazareth where he had been brought up:and as custon was,he went into the synagogues on the sabbath day, and stood up to read. After his death early christians were being persecuted so they held meetings in houses for this reason to escape persecution. "

food for thought wrote on Mar 8, 2008 8:46 AM:

" You have many buildings on your convention grounds. They sit vacant for most of the year till you open the convention grounds. Even though many of these buildings are on private property of your members, is it not selfish or wasteful to leave them vacant when you could open them up to the poor, feed the hungry, house the homeless. There are many homeless, desitute people who could use a warm place to sleep. Wouldnt you be following what Jesus said in the gospel rather then leaving them vacant for your next convention? "

doctrines wrote on Mar 8, 2008 10:42 AM:

" When Jesus talked about doctrines of men he was talking to the scribes & Pharisees because they were legalistic and were more concerned about rules and laws than the true meaning. They did not follow God with their heart but condemned others by their rules. They allowed their own traditions to nullify the word of God. They lost a sense of priority. In Matthew’s gospel he continues to stress that Jesus was not opposed or indifferent to the law but wanted to inject new life into its observance, by insisting the love command was the basis of all fidelity. In Mark’s gospel the Pharisee’s took offense at Jesus’ association with sinners and outcasts and at his compassionate interpretation of the law. Mark’s reflection of the parables reaffirms that faith in Jesus is a gift; it is not something we can control or achieve solely through our own efforts. Mark’s gospel shows the universal character of Jesus’ words and actions. God’s saving love was not meant exclusively for one group or region. Marks’ gospel reminds us Jesus was inclusive from the beginning. "

a believer wrote on Mar 8, 2008 12:30 PM:

" Someone wrote "Being a part of this family has been an incalculable support to me in this without imposing the burdens of church traditions, buildings,hierarchy"

Every church group is a family. But a church is a group of Christiaans meeting together.

YOu have hierarchy - the workers, head workers, elders are hierarchy. Workers impose themselves on their members who are expected to feed and cloth them.The burdens of church traditions, buildings and hierarchy are certainly in your group.

Also He wasn't crucified because he told them that they had to be more than religious. he was crucified because he claimed to be the Son of God.

Believing in the Father, Son and Holy SPirit does not mean you believe these are in unity. The Jehovah Witness believe in the Father, Son and Holy SPirit, and so do the Mormons, But they do not believe these are in unity.

NO one has said that all they had to do was believe that this was way continued from Jesus. They said that they was what is preached which is not true. The workers stress their church as being different to other groups because of this to make it appear special.

Those who left this group are called "detractors". Reading your psots Logic, I detect that you are not a nice person. Leaving your group does not mean that we have left God. Some have, many haven't, to say we have to belong to your group or we are defractors makes the group questionable. "

Something to think about wrote on Mar 8, 2008 1:56 PM:

" It looks like many people here are wanting a superficial knowledge and half-truths for how things appear to be in regard to what we believe without knowing any more. I see so many items brought up here that are examples of "defining dumbness downward" as quoted from the new book "The Age of American Unreason" by author Susan Jacoby. I will never forget the statement of a former adamant atheist who, when he was asked why he changed to become such a loving and devout Christian in this way, he responded, "Because this Works!!!" "

How We Perceive Others wrote on Mar 8, 2008 4:22 PM:

" I notice that that there are a few posters who take an almost religious zeal in rooting around in the dirt, perpetuating lies & half truths and spinning facts in a negative way--one has to question their motives. It is ridiculous to hear accusations that we belong to a cult--yet they repeat it over and over again, and trot out the same (by now ancient) grievances over and over again. Not one of them has ever described the church they're now presently going to and said nice things about it--does that seem odd to you? I think this would be a lot more profitable, but they don't do this because they're only able to see the bad things in others. This is a sad way to live. Someone once reminded me that "we see in others what we have in our own heart." "

Logic -- to "a believer" wrote on Mar 8, 2008 5:11 PM:

" I'm sorry I came off as "not being a nice person", I didn't mean to come off that way, perhaps my comments sounded too argumentative. I know a “logical argument” was never what brought me to Jesus, it was Love—the love of God, manifested in his Son, and also that I saw reflected in others. I trust that you are a good person, and if you can find this same love and satisfaction in the church you are attending, I am glad for you, and that is between you and God. Know that I and so many other people do care about you, and we naturally want to be friendly toward you irrespective of whether you are in our own fellowship. I mean this from the bottom of my heart! "

lavender--to "logic" wrote on Mar 8, 2008 6:48 PM:

" I feel that you have said things well, said things best. Thankyou. Should you feel moved, please continue to post answers to some of the honest questions that have come up.
I'd also like to address those arguing about long hair on women. Not everyone's hair can look like the shampoo advertisements. If hair is worn down, flying all around, it can look unattractive, especially on older ladies when hair get thin, or is allowed to go naturally gray. Wearing hair up or back in a clip is not a rule, it's just logical for most. If you think it's a rule you are mistaken. No one should be offending others by criticizing hair, etc. But neither should one take offense, they are then just as guilty as the offender. Kindness and love and forgiveness--keep in mind that God does this for us daily and we are expected to do the same unto others. "

Rejoicing in His Way wrote on Mar 8, 2008 8:22 PM:

" I have read ALL the posts.....
I feel the misery of the fault finders..
Jesus said, " Follow Me". There are many roads that lead to Chicago, if Jesus was going there, we would take the same road He is on...following Him...Same thing in our journey to a saved eternity...Following Him, we belive in ALL he taught. [ find it in scripture] Jesus "taught" in the temple
but fellowship with his loved ones and breaking of bread was in a home.. He is the same, yesterday , today and forever..
THINK ABOUT IT........ "

a believer wrote on Mar 9, 2008 1:06 AM:

" Thanks Logic, you sound a nice person after all :))

Someone said that we have not talked about the church we attend. This article and discussion is about the group in the article and not about any other church.

If we had not found something better don't you think we would have gone back to meeting? As we have not gone back to meeting then we must have found something better.

What group we choose to fellowship is nothing to do with salvation. I guess that is the message some on here have been trying to say. Salvation is in Jesus only, not the group we attend.

I have many wonderful close family that go to meetings. "

"Many Minds" wrote on Mar 9, 2008 12:12 PM:

" Has anyone heard the comment: " Many men of many minds, make many religions of many kinds"? When Christ is the "Head" of his body on earth there are no divisions. There is total unity, ONE doctrine [ His teachings] ONE fellowship, ONE spirit. Abiding "in" the will of God brings to us the greatest joy, this side of eternity !
Humans will turn to drugs, drinking, entertainment, riches and more to quench the aching void in their souls [that only God can fill,] only to find that it all fails..God, through Christ is not far from any of us - Seek and ye shall find.....Is it possible that many stumble over the "simplicity" of Christs' living way on the earth?? Bible tells that there is no beauty , that we would desire Him..[ Is. 53:2 }
living way "

to how we percieve others wrote on Mar 9, 2008 3:50 PM:

" The article was written about your ministers and that is why people are commenting. Maybe the reason for the article, is to help you open your heart to people who do not worship God and spread his good news your way. Isaiah 55 vs8 reads "For my thoughs are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Our Lord is not willing any should perish, but all should come to repentance. I have been a guest at many faiths groups throughout the years, including yours that taught from the bible. God freely gives the gift of his Holy Spirit to all his children whose desire is to love and serve him. "

salvation wrote on Mar 9, 2008 6:52 PM:

" Yes, 'Many Minds' there is only one Christ, one body, one mind, one doctrine etc. Many churches are in unity in these things but it is only a few groups like your group, the Jehovah Witnessess, the Mormons and so on that claim that salvation is exclusivly found only through them. My question is why are you dividing up the body of Christ if you believe that we are one body? The Bible says we are all one, not many as you are saying. There is only one doctrine so why are you promoting a different doctrine? Because you claim yours is the true doctrine. We are not saved by a certain doctrine, but we are saved through believing on Jesus.

The way of God that you are talking about has only been around 110 years, so what about all those who lived before your group was started 110 years ago. Where there not people saved before your group started? The person who started your group was anything but humble, anything but Christlike. The workers who followed him put him out.

Salvation is not in looking for Christ's living way on earth, it is looking for and finding Jesus. A way will never save, only Jesus saves. Finding the right way, 'church'or what ever you like to call it is nothing to do with salvation, salvation is only in finding Jesus. "

My last comment wrote on Mar 9, 2008 8:55 PM:

" "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"-Phil.2:12. Revelation can only come from God- so pray! "

to believe in Jesus wrote on Mar 10, 2008 1:01 PM:

" Revelation of what?

There is only one revelation that comes from God, and that is that He sent His Son to die on the Cross that all who believe on Him shall be saved.

Any other revelation is not of God.

God help any group that says that they are The Way, for Jesus Christ only is The Way. "

Why not? wrote on Mar 10, 2008 2:14 PM:

" The question has to be asked why this church forbids it's Ministers to be married. Many of the disciples were married and many of this church's early ministers were married. (Did God change his mind?) This practice seems to follow the Catholic church more than it follows the teachings of Jesus. "

funny wrote on Mar 10, 2008 2:35 PM:

" You people crack me up :) The workers are not forbidden to marry. They choose not to for the gospels sake. It makes it a lot harder to be in the work and drag around a family. Paul makes this very clear. Again, read your bible and pray and God WILL give you a clear revelation of how he planned the straight and narrow way to heaven thru his son Jesus Christ. Instead of spending all your time trying to belittle something so precious, why don't you find something to make you happy?? I think i'm done with this back and forth. i'm happy. It's one thing when it's questions i can help someone with but a totally different thing when you throw out these hilarious accusations. "

Dean wrote on Mar 10, 2008 3:53 PM:

" I love the way of God. It is so simple and true. I feel so sorry for the ones who have left the fellowship as you can read their bitterness. It reminds me of the 5 wise and the 5 foolish that Jesus talked about. Jesus instructed to not only love our neighbor, but to love our enemy. This is what we need to do, show love to the ones that are bitter so they can see that Jesus loves them and wants them to repent. He prayed while he was getting crucified. Father, forgive them for they know not what they do. This way woundn't work unless God's hand wasn't in it. It works for those who are willing to submit to the love of God. Would you rather eat at the table of love or the table of hate (the devil). I hope you are wise in making the right choice as you will be the one that will answer for the choice you have made. "

to funny wrote on Mar 10, 2008 8:09 PM:

" I am not from your faith but it sounds like many in your way lack love and patience from the comments above. How do you ever expect to win souls for Jesus when you cannot show the gifts of holy spirit. Jesus greatest commandment is to love one another, is this what you call love? "

Bryan wrote on Mar 10, 2008 8:20 PM:

" DEAN:
Surely you must have meant, "This way wouldn't work unless God's hand WAS in it.", Not what you actually typed, "This way wouldn't work unless God's hand WASN'T in it. Certainly must have been an inadverdant mistake on your part. One can only hope so!! "

not funny wrote on Mar 10, 2008 8:30 PM:

" I have read all the posts on this thread and I do not see bitterness, except from people like funny and Dean who put people down for having a different opinion than theirs. Those who say that Jesus is the way are called bitter, just because they have left. All the put down words by those in the group such as defectors, bitter, crack up, funny,

Since when is saying Jesus is the way bitterness?

If the workers are not forbiden to marry then why is it that they are bidden to go into the work if they are married? It has been many many years since a married couple have been able to go into the work. If a married person asked to go into the work they would be told no.

Yes, Paul puts it very clearly. He asked why he could not led about a wife the same as the other apostles.

Jesus is the straight and narrow way, not a group of people who meet together to worship Jesus. A group is made up of people, sinners like you and me, the straight and marrow way is Jesus and him alone. No group of people are the way, but Jesus himself.

Again, salvation is in Jesus and not a group. A group can never save, a group is not truth, truth is reserved for Jesus alone, not for men and women.

"

questions wrote on Mar 10, 2008 8:32 PM:

" Funny said you are happy to answer quesitons yet someone asked what happened to all the people who were born before your group started 110 years ago? - how could they be saved? "

People wrote on Mar 10, 2008 9:17 PM:

" The heart and soul of Jesus' teachings is the command to love. This comes to its fullest expression where Jesus tells his disciples they are to love the enemy, because God's love is indiscriminate, bathing both the just and unjust. The most challenging demand, to strive to love our enemies, espresses the ultimate spirit of Jesus' teachings on the human heart. We all need to be a witness of God's love to the world. Why not start here "

answer to question wrote on Mar 10, 2008 9:39 PM:

" didn't see that question. "our group" is just people who follow the bible. i believe people have been following Jesus footsteps since the day he began to lead. We do not worship any man or take any man's name as "the founder" of what we believe save the name of Jesus. "

funny wrote on Mar 10, 2008 9:47 PM:

" since when did what i had to say sound bitter :) personally i think one or two people are writing these same comments cause they all sound the same, and i think it's interesting that your are twisting everyones comments who are trying to help others see how much they love this fellowship to make it seem like they have no love. If your so full of love and we aren't then why are you spending all your time and energy to tell us how wrong we are?? TAG, YOUR IT!! "

ron wrote on Mar 10, 2008 11:03 PM:

" This way was started by Jesus. It is truth and life. There are no rules, only freedom and joy unspeakable. "

ancient churches wrote on Mar 10, 2008 11:30 PM:

" I found this on another board and have to wonder the same as this person. The church in the article above shows a lack of understanding of the early church. Interpreting the Bible from the perspective of modern day western society is nothing like the church of the New Testament. Look at some of these groups who have been around for centuries.

The group in this article is nothing likhey are nothing like the original New Testament church.
Compare the 2x2 church with some of these old groups

Assyrians
Assyrian Christians are an ancient sect and speak Syriac.

Armenian Apostolic Church
It is an Orthodox Church with 18,000 followers and nine churches situated in
Baghdad.

Mandeans (also known as Nasoraeans, Sabians or Subbis)
There are various differing views on Mandeans in Iraq. Mandeanism, has been classed as
an ancient Middle East religion still surviving in Iraq and Khuzistan.
Mandeans have claimed to be Christians of St. John,
"

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